Government Shutdown Appears to Be A Go

openminded2011
I wonder, do we have to pay taxes for the period the government is shut down? If only.

Yes.

Because the salaries of everyone in congress don't get cut.

It's about time!!! They need to get a taste of unemployment. They need to learn what "hard work" means. Lazy ba$tard$!

LittleBlackEagle
they shut down 17 years ago what happened, nothing.................................................................................................................

We actually lose money during a shut-down...the last one cost the USA about 1.5 Billion per day...in todays dollars likely close to 2 Billion. And Congress just gets Paid Time Off.

The loss in GDP is slight at first, but then grows exponentially with each passing day.

Economic confidence drops and interest rates rise. Hiring slows.

This isn't hyperbole, it is simple reality and math...cause and effect economics and has happened predictably with each past Gov. Shut Down.

It is why when Newt Gingrich and crew shut down the government, they paid dearly for it in elections.

Partisanship aside, this shut-down will cost the GOP seats in November. It is impossible for them to "spin" their way out of what will follow. You can only deny economic reality for so long and the shut down will be at the least a palpable blow to the economy, but the debt-ceiling debate to follow...which could lead to the USA defaulting on it's debts for the first time, will be catastrophic following so close to the shut-down.

I am an optimist, but seriously folks, this is very bad news. Our only hope is that the shut down last only a couple of days and that the GOP relent on taking the economy hostage in the debt ceiling debate in a couple of weeks....but I see no signs of sanity, we are headed toward BIG economic problems.

reply to post by Indigo5


Could you possibly explain to me why we'd lose $1.5bn/day? Is this from figures taken from tax dollars used to pay government staff which in turn uses that money to pay for goods and services? If so, does that really count as a loss? More like savings to me.

I am all for it. Shut the whole damned mess down. We have raked up over $11T in debt over the last 5 - 6 years. There is no excuse for that. None. Period! It's high time we quit borrowing money from China just to send it to Pakistan, or Israel, or whomever else we are trying to buy loyalty from. We have to fix OUR house before we go shipping billions of our, yes OUR tax $$$ to other countries! The spending train needs to leave the station, and it needs to crash head first into a brick wall. The blame for this mess resides on both sides of the isle. The only difference between the tow parties is what side of the isle they sit on. Behind closed doors they are all friends. The public banter is for show and entertainment, nothing else. Every one of them are wealthy, top tier elitists. They need to go, one way or another! Unless they do, our country will soon be a third world has-been.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Is someone trying to provoke enough outrage to sneakily get Obamacare up and running as quickly as possible?

Just wondering, with tinfoil hat firmly in place.

Em2013
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Could you possibly explain to me why we'd lose $1.5bn/day? Is this from figures taken from tax dollars used to pay government staff which in turn uses that money to pay for goods and services? If so, does that really count as a loss? More like savings to me.

You can google costs of Government shut down..

Interest accrued for delayed payments.
Cost of shuttering and then re-opening all government operations, national parks etc.
Loss revenue in tourism..admission fees to parks etc.
Contingency planning and lost user fees.
Many (not all) military contractors have contingency clauses that insulate them from these things and assign additional costs for shut-down/start-up expenses as well.

The list goes on..

This isn't partisan numbers...the costs of government shut down have been run exhaustively in prior shut-downs, by both non-partisan orgs and the left and the right.

The OMB concluded that the 1996 shut-down cost Gov. an additional 1.4 Billion per day...about 2 Billion in todays dollars.

FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by Xcalibur254

 

Is someone trying to provoke enough outrage to sneakily get Obamacare up and running as quickly as possible?

Just wondering, with tinfoil hat firmly in place.

"Up and Running" is the problem.

With dozens of 'delays' already announced by the Administration, and with scores of errors and mistakes already happening, I would say "Up and Running" is an oxymoron.

Unless it means *people* will soon be "Up and Running".

** Watch for more trouble when websites start going down (dos attacks, etc) and 800 number phones get jammed up (flash mob calls) beyond belief this week **

reply to post by beezzer

This is also why I advocate and scream for self-reliance and freedom FROM government and government intervention!

I agree 100% however, the really sickening thing is, even if you choose to live in total freedom away from the government and it's intervention, living off the land and the grid, completely self sustaining on your own land you must still find a way to pay the taxes on that land every single year or it will be seized and taken from you.

In fact, government has been hassling a gentleman by the name of Eustace Conway who is forced to pillage and rape his own land to sell firewood to pay taxes to live a self sustaining life, further, he has been hassled and shaken down by building code inspectors because he didn't pull permits to build his log shelters and dwellings, something man has been doing for thousands of years to survive. If your interested

You are never truly free in this country, you are only free to do EXACTLY what they tell you and free to pay exactly what they tell you or they will take everything you have without another thought about your life, happiness or well being.

reply to post by Indigo5



our debt means nothing, as has been shown, since they keep adding to it and no one cares because their country is doing the same thing.

the people are so asleep these days, i don't think anyone would notice and as far as consumer confidence they'll just hand out some other bs gift to appease the idiots that vote for them.

the us remains the reserve currency so no one will do a damn thing, the debt don't matter, the job's don't matter, the printing press don't matter and neither will this shut down because it's all fake bs.

If I'm not mistaken, the REAL date to be concerned with is not October 1st when they shut down, but the 17th when they run out of money. It will be interesting to watch.

People have asked why or how is this different than when the government shut down before. Well, the bailout makes it a lot different. You see, we now owe billions and billions to countries like Russia and China (were they just in the news for having war games? aka flexing muscle?) We are SO broke now that our military has had to make several cuts unfortunately, they chose to make those cuts in areas providing our defenses. It will be hard to come to an agreement this time, because we as a country are beyond broke with no plan yet (how many years has it been now?) on how to repay any debts other than borrowing more to pay off others.

Really if you stand back and look at it, make a time line of events, its quite eerie.

Obama decided on the bailout (yes during the Bush term, but Bush left it up to him since it would go into effect during Obamas term and not his)

Bottom falls out but big crooked ceos were saved.

Thanks to an oil spill, news reporters are not allowed to film or report anything that would cause harm to others or create civil unrest.

Obamacare begins by new rule of computers and a patient data files in dr. offices. I was surprised to find out that was why my dr.s were switching to carying around a computer and not a chart. A couple were quite pissed about it. One thing after another.

NSA gets ability to spy on every one of us. To the point Russia, Germany, and many others except China are pissed.

NRA taking the NSA to court because through all this, the NSA has developed an illegal federal database gun registry. They know who owns what guns.

Oh hey look we are broke. Cut air traffic controllers down below the minimum. Cut Navy programs that watch our skys. Cut defenses. Cut the things people like for example tours of the white house.

School history books changing the bill of rights.

Fighting to take away our gun rights.

Those who fight back in congress and say no more, are being called radicals. Funny, the new school books called the people who started the American revolution radicals too.

October 17th, if we stand our ground and say enough is enough, the government can no longer pay its bills. Unfortunately, the ones who will continue to get paid will be the politicians. At least the Republicans tried to get it passed so the soldiers would still get their checks... senate is not too concerned with that right now.

October will be a very interesting month.

The U.S. Government fiscal year ends tonight.

The new year starts Oct 1st.

That might be the problem.

If I were a Democrat congressman. I would add an amendment to this bill repealing the 2nd Amendment and raising taxes 500% on the top 1% just to show the tea part how stupid this can get.

mrsdudara
If I'm not mistaken, the REAL date to be concerned with is not October 1st when they shut down, but the 17th when they run out of money. It will be interesting to watch.

People have asked why or how is this different than when the government shut down before. Well, the bailout makes it a lot different. You see, we now owe billions and billions to countries like Russia and China (were they just in the news for having war games? aka flexing muscle?) We are SO broke now that our military has had to make several cuts unfortunately, they chose to make those cuts in areas providing our defenses. It will be hard to come to an agreement this time, because we as a country are beyond broke with no plan yet (how many years has it been now?) on how to repay any debts other than borrowing more to pay off others.

Really if you stand back and look at it, make a time line of events, its quite eerie.

Obama decided on the bailout (yes during the Bush term, but Bush left it up to him since it would go into effect during Obamas term and not his)

Bottom falls out but big crooked ceos were saved.

Thanks to an oil spill, news reporters are not allowed to film or report anything that would cause harm to others or create civil unrest.

Obamacare begins by new rule of computers and a patient data files in dr. offices. I was surprised to find out that was why my dr.s were switching to carying around a computer and not a chart. A couple were quite pissed about it. One thing after another.

NSA gets ability to spy on every one of us. To the point Russia, Germany, and many others except China are pissed.

NRA taking the NSA to court because through all this, the NSA has developed an illegal federal database gun registry. They know who owns what guns.

Oh hey look we are broke. Cut air traffic controllers down below the minimum. Cut Navy programs that watch our skys. Cut defenses. Cut the things people like for example tours of the white house.

School history books changing the bill of rights.

Fighting to take away our gun rights.

Those who fight back in congress and say no more, are being called radicals. Funny, the new school books called the people who started the American revolution radicals too.

October 17th, if we stand our ground and say enough is enough, the government can no longer pay its bills. Unfortunately, the ones who will continue to get paid will be the politicians. At least the Republicans tried to get it passed so the soldiers would still get their checks... senate is not too concerned with that right now.

October will be a very interesting month.

Some of the best intellect I have seen contributed to the forum, in ages.. If I could give you a applause I would, I believe their is allot of people with the same sentiment, on our state of affairs in our Leadership..


What is scary is it is beginning to appear like their is no peaceful way to fix it, what I mean by that is something like a strike, or refusal to buy gas etc. something where it can cause a negative effect..

Sure the republicans are trying but its to little to late.. The thing is, is the media and other corporate ran Main stream media sources do not cover all the facts.

This is a very controversial idea, and to be frank I have no idea how the Federal government thinks its going to work, without making the PEOPLE pay for it somehow.. Not sure how the PEOPLE can afford to pay for it when they are not WORKING full time etc.

I think they are realizing they have some serious problems..

Anyhow here is a link to the FARCE

as I said we have a double digit trillion dollar debt, we are going to shut down D.C all over a bill that one side of the Government wants to put into law with funding we do not have?

Meanwhile back in the real world, the PEOPLE are facing doubt, no hope, and being told this is the end...

CINY8

---the following is an "external quote" posted by member CINY8. I have to write it this way (without the *ex* tags) because of ATS stupid new filters that automatically remove this stuff from quoted posts--


If the government shuts down, the most important things will still get done. Soldiers and other members of the military who help protect America will still keep us safe. The Post Office will still deliver letters. Air traffic controllers will still help planes land safely at airports. And your old or disabled relatives who get things called “Social Security checks” will still have money for bingo. But many services will stop.

Newsflash: Some people have to pay rent out of their social security / disability checks. And the last time I looked, people eating was a pretty necessary thing. So they'd better not mess with that stuff, or food stamps, or I can guarantee you a whole lot of angry, freaked out, hungry people.

And the Republicans are doing this because they're unwilling to play nice, and want to drag their feet like pouting little children? Disgusting.


I'll just say, if they do start to shut off some truly necessary services, like I mentioned above, some of these fat republican politicians might start to look good enough to eat to some poor hungry folks.


Just a thought.

reply to post by iwilliam

Soldiers and other members of the military who help protect America will still keep us safe.

the people who work in the dept of defense are all being laid off tomorrow, without pay. that means, although we have a military, none of its support mechanisms, will be functioning.

reply to post by undo


Not all the support is DoD, some support jobs are done by contractors.

If the US Gov't shuts-down due to no vote on debt ceiling today, that makes means the 50 million people on Food-Stamps won't get their cards, the millions on Gov't Medic-aid won't get their prescriptions and military won't get their pay-cheques. That's just to start! Place will go bonkers!

reply to post by CALGARIAN


I thought operations dealing with food stamps, medicare etc, were still operational during the shutdown? If those shut down then yep, there will be mass chaos...

They wave that fish to create drama and drama alone. Anything to keep sleepers from hearing about U.N. gun treaty obama just signed and his creature obama care. Wake up.