Rethinking Comets

reply to post by Aliensun


No its because you posted so much ignorance based drivel. The Gish gallop is not a productive way to have a conversation. You presented more "i dont understand, therefore Aliens" then anyone would EVER want to respond to.

It seems as if your writing a book and decided to post the synopsis and pretend its actual curiosity.

Aliensun
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I'm extremely biased, when the whole of astronomy is biased toward a very mysterious phenomenon in that can only be explained in their terms with a collection of ad hoc theories?

With the cometship theory, ONE explanation covers the whole of it albeit ingrained standard thinking can't accept some of the ramifications.

I'm waiting: you've not addressed the points I brought up about your "space craft" taking nose dives into other planets and the sun.........

reply to post by Aliensun

You can't bother to fully read the material with a "What if..." frame of mind

Yes I can I love science fiction and fantasy writing (I have read most of those works), the what if you allude is defined as "suspension of disbelief" I'm fully capable of that also I have also watched most of science fiction B movies. What I couldn't do is commit time to read the wall of text and I told you clearly that was the reason.

As for UFOs I do believe that some are indeed alien craft (not all), now as what aliens are I can't assume anything but that they originate from outside of the sol system is the last of the possibilities.

I didn't join the naysayer side, I just defended him from your false claim of attacking you (since I hadn't read your presentation I had no basis to comment further than that). It pained me that you decided to bite the head of the one person that clearly committed to read you out and took the time to comment on it...

You say people are closed minded but I think you need to spend some time mirror gazing as to find you empathy and see that you are as imperfect as we all...

When referring to a UFO to be taken as-is...it CANT be.

Why? Because by definition...it is an "UNIDENTIFIABLE" Object thats Flying.

By that...you have to prove that which is unidentifiable. And one can't. Let alone be "alien" ie not-from-here.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


Ah! Reduced to name calling, huh?

I spend considerable time condensing a good bit of work into 31kb of article and you call me a "troll?"
You know, from my perspective, you are the troll. It is one thing to post a counter conviction to the OP, but you have added nothing to the discussion. And honestly, that was what this was all about, to get the concept out there so people could (re)think about comets. I didn't expect acceptance. Rarely do new ideas gain immediate favor.

I assume that some people read the piece and quietly go away wondering what might be the whole truth behind the UFO. I like to hope that such wonderings would tend to make them being introspective of their own ideas, assumed knowledge and how they have been persuaded by TPTB to think and believe without question.

I also like to think that even those folks whom feel strongly enough to belittling the theory in post without substance have had their thinking impinged upon just a little enough that it buries itself as a cerebral sore, chronic and incurable.

Aliensun


I also like to think that even those folks whom feel strongly enough to belittling the theory in post without substance have had their thinking impinged upon just a little enough that it buries itself as a cerebral sore, chronic and incurable.

It doesn't take strong feelings to belittle a theory without substance.

reply to post by Aliensun


Unfortunately you don't have a theory, you have an assemblage of statements that fail to touch, let along coalesce and convince.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


I've failed to see a thinking mind in the above group of protestors. Each wants me to prove what I contend and one repeatedly wants to call me a troll as if I'm doing what he does, spilling out a couple of sentences in a minute's time and saying to himself, "Well, I solved that!"

All of them seems to have forgotten the one thing that is a standard reply when a controversial thread runs here on ATS. That reply from harried producers of such threads is: "Do your own research. --Come back with a substantive argument when you do."

I knew full well what I faced in creating this thread. The responses were as expected, not driven by any actual knowledge or examination of the contents but merely based upon knee-jerk reactions.

It was my intent to, first, get the concept out there in an effort to move the UFO controversy onto fresh avenues of approach. The second goal was to allow an open-minded reader on ATS to breakaway from consensus thinking and simply consider or play with the very simple idea that comets are not what we have been allowed to assume.

Some of you can't allow yourselves that basic step toward gaining self-made wisdom. I must suppose that you don't have that capacity or maybe have an agenda dictated by the secret-keepers.

At any rate, the cometship theory is out there and I take full responsibility for it.

Aliensun
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

I've failed to see a thinking mind in the above group of protestors. Each wants me to prove what I contend and one repeatedly wants to call me a troll as if I'm doing what he does, spilling out a couple of sentences in a minute's time and saying to himself, "Well, I solved that!"

All of them seems to have forgotten the one thing that is a standard reply when a controversial thread runs here on ATS. That reply from harried producers of such threads is: "Do your own research. --Come back with a substantive argument when you do."

I knew full well what I faced in creating this thread. The responses were as expected, not driven by any actual knowledge or examination of the contents but merely based upon knee-jerk reactions.

It was my intent to, first, get the concept out there in an effort to move the UFO controversy onto fresh avenues of approach. The second goal was to allow an open-minded reader on ATS to breakaway from consensus thinking and simply consider or play with the very simple idea that comets are not what we have been allowed to assume.

Some of you can't allow yourselves that basic step toward gaining self-made wisdom. I must suppose that you don't have that capacity or maybe have an agenda dictated by the secret-keepers.

At any rate, the cometship theory is out there and I take full responsibility for it.

You have yet to defend your speculation, answer questions about your theory, or try to support your theory at all.

At this point, your idea about comet isn't even a hypothesis, much less a actual working theory.

Bring more to the table to support your speculative idea. Answer peoples questions.

You've done none of that since your OP, but have only attacked and insulted people.

You've been a registered member with ATS long enough that you should know how this works: You present an idea on something, offering supporting evidence if you can. Then ignore attacks and insults, alerting them to the mods instead, and concentrate on actually discussing the subject (your OP) of the thread.

Right now, since you have refused to actually discuss the topic of your thread and refused to answer questions about it, that your thread is really nothing more than Flamebait:

1) Flame bait is a message posted to a public Internet discussion group, such as a forum, newsgroup or mailing list, with the intent of provoking an angry response (a "flame") or argument over a topic the "troll" (original poster provoking angry response) often has no real interest in, and finds humour, or entertainment in reactions.

And is a violation of the TCs here on ATS, specifically part 16:

ATS Terms and Conditions

16) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, libelous, defamatory, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

So why not alert the mods to posts that you think are attacking you or insulting you personally, and actually have a discussion about the actual subject of the thread you created (which so far you have failed to do)?

reply to post by Aliensun


While I read your Op in it's entirety, I did get a feeling that with all your reading you should know that this below is not accurate.

The view of Science always has been that all comets are natural, dead objects.

I know from my own studies this above is simply not true. They are anything but dead. Comets have been found to have ALL the makings of life ... even in the dust of one does it have life contained within it. There have been numerous studies.

Maybe they are cometships... maybe what you say is true.... there is just zero evidence to back it up.

I am glad for a man ( I assume) in his 70's that you have an open mind and think outside the box. That, I can appreciate.

Aliensun

gavron
To be honest, Alfa1s post is spot on. How can we take your post(s) seriously with such a blatant error in thinking in it?

Can you deny any of what he posted?

Alfa1s "is spot on?"
How in the world did you come to that conclusion? His whole post was, as I said, an attempt at character assassination.

As is the very thesis of your OP:

Science has aptly applied that rule of avoiding the facts of comets with a vengeance. It takes and rejects various aspects of its own revelations about comets to create a picture that better fits a narrow, cosmology that is solidly anchored from an earthly, solidly anthropocentric-point of view. Or at least, that’s the way Science used to be before the coming of the saucers and before they ran into revelations on Mars and Phobos that gave them pause to reflect and seriously start talking in cautious, stilted terms about life out there somewhere but certainly not on Mars, and with the visiting UFOs but, yet, maybe, just maybe, out there somewhere.

Here you paint ALL of astronomers with the broad brush of self-deluded liars.

Open your eyes. Look at what you yourself post before you criticize others.

Most comets were discovered by amateurs for the last several thousand years or so, you know.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


And Harte, everytime something profound is revealed, the entire world of knowledge is easily and gracefully stroked.

OP, I read it all. I've read all the replies.

Mama is the only one so far that has been honest and respectful at that.

What happened to respect for a 75 year old thinker? There is more wisdom in him than in most here I see. Even if everything he is saying is completely out-of-line, at least he is getting SOMEWHERE.

You can be like Tesla and spend years calculating and only fail a few times. Or you can be like Edison and spend years just failing.

Either way, you finally win.

As long as you adhere to your current understanding and defend it vehemently without being willing to, in spite of all reason, attempt to shoot your understanding all to pieces (for if your understanding is the most solid, you will not be able to shoot it to pieces); then you will never, ever, ever learn anything.

Acquiring knowledge from a book or from someone else's mind is easy. We have trained animals to do that.

Acquiring wisdom, on the other hand, not everyone does, neither is fully capable (until it is revealed to them, or they stumble upon it like an oasis in the middle of a desert during a sandstorm); when you acquire wisdom, you learn that the text books that you defend will burn up tomorrow. They are good for allowing people to live in the here and now, for now. TO perform calculations right now. But to waste your useful selves on something as silly as defending that which burns up tomorrow; there is no greater foolishness. There is no greater folly.

The OP has not assumed that all science is wrong. What he has proposed is the truth - that what you think you know is not the whole story; and some of it is fabricated so that it looks neat to you when you take it in.

When you build a house, and when you finally get to the point of putting the walls in, you want to cover up the insulation and the wires and the pipes. You want to cover up the lines where the wall meets itself. You want to prime and paint it. You want to put molding around the edges so as to hide the lines, add beauty, and provide protection and sometimes support for other objects.

But if you have ever worked construction, you know that sometimes mistakes are made. Sometimes the mistakes would be huge if it weren't for the awesome invention of cover-up.

Tape over it then paint over it. Spackle it and paint it. Oh just put the molding over it, it's fine. Just cut this piece that way and slap it on there, that's fine. Famous last words: "It'll be alright. Don't have to be perfect."

Because people have deadlines and they're looking to get paid.

The sky is beautiful indeed. When it's your job day in day out for ever and ever and ever... and the tasks are tedious...

It's like someone that wants to become a doctor or nurse to help people. But how many times are you going to inject someone with a needle, have to put up with their insane fits, be crapped on, and eventually watch them die without their dignity.. before you become hard?

The stars are not beautiful anymore to those there. They are resources for information and entertainment, in the long run, for them.

New people show up in the field excited. They are soon jaded by the coldness, lack of enthusiasm, and almost snobbish disdain for joy concerning any such a matter.

If you leave it up to these people to decide what is our knowledge, then you set yourselves up to be nothing short of fools.

They apply the knowledge because it is their job.

It is up to the wise, those who are capable of going outside of the process, and to enjoy outside the process, and to ever live freely of the bounds of the universe, it is to them that we owe our understanding (though lesser it may be to the much grander spiritual understanding, but grand nevertheless); and it is to them that we owe what we have to apply today.

Bruce Lee developed the Tao of Jeet Kune Do for himself. Not for everyone else. That was never the point.

And yet today, most forms of martial arts have employed his techniques. And that was against his teachings, philosophically speaking. His implication was "my body does what my body does. Yours does what it does. Each are going to be different. Until we have 3 arms and 5 legs, the way we move is going to be different." He was the master. Hands down. No one like him (in the spotlight, that is). And yet, everyone believes they must imitate his exact form to be as great as him.

Never.

And every master of his field would tell you, "you're mad. Don't step on my heels, that's annoying. Don't breathe in my ear, that's even more annoying. Go your way." This, of course, in the world of the wisdom of men. The world of the wisdom of spirituality, which is perfection defined, is a different story.

But in the arts and in the sciences, there is not, and it should not be implied, especially by those that seem to themselves that they are intelligent, or capable of forming understanding; it should not be implied that our human knowledge is any good at all. People say, "But we ran the experiments, got results, and we can recreate the results. This is proof!"

No. Sorry. Not until you can explain what the most fundamental building blocks are in the universe are, you don't have proof. You just think you do. You think, because you can repeat a result, that you -actually- know what is happening.

You only know what appears to be happening according to our extremely limited interpretive methods. And that's all you know.

Unless you have a sense of intuition and impartiality. Judgment is good, very good. You cannot get anything done, really, without it. And especially you would not very well be able to stand by your physical experiences if you didn't have it.

Comet ships? Sure, why not. I've not ever BEEN IN a comet, so how could I possibly actually know? If it was my job to make a movie entitled, "Comet ISON: Super Ice Ball Travelling Real Quick - Another gift from Oort" then I would apply practical understanding and simply make that movie. Of course, it would be a fiction, because I don't know. But I know what people think they know, and that would provide entertainment, and money, and some temporary contentment and joy.

But would I dismiss the possibility of something which I've never personally experienced? That is absurd. That is arrogant -beyond belief-.

I'm bold. But not arrogant.

Let's try again.

Read again. If you cannot imagine, don't try. Move on. Not your business anymore because this isn't about your perception of fact. Never was his point, ever, at all.

If you can imagine, then either come up with alternate scenarios, or add-on to his current understanding.

Myself, I am not sold (and never was) on the currently accept theories regarding comets.

I have an excellent imagination, but I'm not really capable of coming up with something else right now, and to the best of my knowledge, I've not been abducted.

I'm an executor more than I am a visionary, but I sure do love to try to envision at any rate, and sometimes it does me very, very well.