All things you believe in, they are "right"... Right?

All things you believe in, they are "right"... Right?

by John SkieSwanne

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Many people know that I am dovish. I oppose revolutions, violence, and hawks. But many don't see why. In this thread I shall make a small demonstration to make you, dear reader, see by yourself THE problem everyone seems to miss. This is a dove's critic of hawks.

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Many people here believe that change won't come if we just do nothing. Violence is a tool, right? Without violence, you don't have revolution, which means no hope of achieving national revolution , spirit and vitality, right?

If you agree with that, then I am sorry to break it to you... but you just agreed with fascism.

"They (fascists) identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality."

source: en.wikipedia.org...

As many of you already probably know, Hitler - amongst many others - was fascist.

~

Many people here believe that the ultimate danger to economy is bourgeoisie. For instance, the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers, which are just a few groups, are in control of everything, right? The majority of the people is just a working labour class, and only a rich elite profits from this labour. Thus the logical action for the majority of people would be to use their greater number, engage into a revolution, and overthrow the Elite, right?

If you agree with that... then you just agreed with Marxism.

"Marx argues that in capitalist society, an economic minority (the bourgeoisie) dominate and exploit an economic majority (the proletariat).
(...)
In order to overcome the fetters of private property the working class must seize political power internationally through a social revolution and expropriate the capitalist classes around the world "

source: en.wikipedia.org...

As it is well known by most of you, Stalin - amongst many others - was a Marxist.

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I ask this with great concerns: Hawks, are you sure... you believe in the right thing? How can you be sure your belief system is not desinformation from an old party, who wants our future to fit its view and, in essence, reborn from its ashes? Will you really open Pandora's box again and again? How can't anyone realize that the greatest enemy won't attack you with weapons anymore?... it'll most probably be a silent war of ideologies, a war in which the victims become the enemy - without even knowing it, because no one is prepared (it seems) to be dovish. A war not of matter, but of ideas, of spiritual grounds. Where philosophical missiles have media as propellers, traditions as bodies, ideas as warheads, and mere concepts as hearts.

That's why I am dovish to the extreme. That's why I encourage pacifism.

Am I... the only one seeing this?

~

At Time's End,

Swan

Sure, France and US and so many other countries all went into revolution before the existence of fascism and Marx... but still these revolutions were basically variants of something Marx and fascism crystallized into "philosophy" centuries later. The wheel was there before the car... but the car is a machine on wheels.

And the point is, the people in France and in US are still un-satisfied with their government, even though such revolutions occurred. The only thing anarchy achieved, was higher corruption.

reply to post by swanne

That's why I am dovish to the extreme. That's why I encourage pacifism.

Although, in general...I'm also a pacifist...however...most people, or groups or society in general...resists change. It's in our nature. We always want for things to stay the same...

As an individual...it probably is the most difficult thing to achieve...is to change one self.

Even though I'm not in favor of conflict...sometimes it is inevitable for progress to happen.

I don't believe in anything, I have faith in nothing that I don't KNOW to be true. Some have told me that I am stupid because I do not believe as they do, in things that cannot be proven, things that are not "self evident", and self evidence is what is required for me to believe in anything.

I believe in gravity, I would like to fly. I would like to be able to trust people to do the right thing, but they always prove themselves to be untrustworthy and self-centered.

Belief or faith?, faith is the problem with most people here, they have faith in an unfair system, and believe themselves to be righteous somehow, because they will be forgiven by something / someone, when that someone or something can't even take the time, being so powerful, so omnipotent, to make itself or themselves self evident.

I don't believe in anything, I don't disbelieve either, I'm just waiting for some kind of evidence to present itself that I can believe, people are gullible and afraid to be all by themselves.

Life is not a game or a team sport, and if one gets past the playing around and dancing the silly dance part of it, the running the plays during the game part of it, one can be quite happy.

Life is not a game.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
Even though I'm not in favor of conflict...sometimes it is inevitable for progress to happen.

Conflict is necessary for evolution. It's how we, as individuals, respond to that conflict that is in question. We should evolve, not subscribe to ideologies we know doesn't work and are, by their nature, unethical.

You say most people resist change... I think mankind as a whole is eager for change, because Hope is, by definition, a change of state. Most people just don't know yet how to carry out a true change without resorting to known failing ideas.

Nice thought-provoking post, BTW.

reply to post by swanne

And the point is, the people in France and in US are still un-satisfied with their government, even though such revolutions occurred. The only thing anarchy achieved, was higher corruption.

People will always be unsatisfied with the government. The only issue is...how big of population are we talking about. Is it a majority...or some special groups. The thing is...you can never please everybody...there will always be somebody who is unhappy with the system. Always. It's so...human.

reply to post by swanne

We should evolve, not subscribe to ideologies we know doesn't work and are, by their nature, unethical

that would work if we all had IQ's over 120...sadly...we don't.

In life, I think that nobody can know if what they believe is "right". (If there even is a "right").

But how does this question about "all things" turn into a political thread?

reply to post by swanne

You say most people resist change... I think mankind as a whole is eager for change, because Hope is, by definition, a change of state.

response to edit:

I would agree with you that mankind is "eager" for a change...but...it is more a reaction to an unhappy current state. Yet...when the moment comes when we need to make real concrete moves to bring about change...this is where we fall apart. The desire is sort of there...but when change starts to happen...you will mostly see moaning and groaning about it.

I suppose...I claim that people resist change...because it's much easier to live old, known, well walked paths...in general..most people fear to live outside of the known. We love the idea of progress...but it always stamps on our old ways we love so much.

Human being is a creature of habit...everything that is different and new...must get at the end of the line....and it usually takes a whole generation to die off first...as the new generation adopts new knowledge and new ways.

reply to post by swanne


Just wanted to touch on your threads name. We believe everything we believe is right, even things we've been taught from credible sources, like teachers. However, it's not an infallible source of information. Even history is riddled with lies.

Think of it this way: Ever play that game in school when you're given a sentence and you're supposed to whisper it to the next person who whispers it to the next all the way until it comes to the very end of the line and the last person is supposed to say out loud what the first person said? It's never the same. It might be close, but never the same, or at least, very rarely.

That's how I view history and everything we're taught. I'm fully aware that a lot of information I have is wrong, however it's the best information I have until new information comes, but that info too will be incorrect until I get more correct info. Sometimes, I may never get correct information, but only a fraction of the true information.

So are all the things I believe in right? No.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
The desire is sort of there...but when change starts to happen...you will mostly see moaning and groaning about it.

Good point, but I must present my counter-argument. Let's take, for example, the change to electric car to end oil dependency. Sure, everyone do want to change to an electric car. The reason why this doesn't happen is not much because of people's apathy, but more because there are currently very few secure (by secure I mean that they can survive a crash on the highway) electric car available. And the few that are available, well the manufacturer seize the opportunity to augment the price of the car... so the poor is discouraged from buying.

The same thing applies to many change "we" can't carry out. The enemy is not corporations, or the wealthy, or us... it's maybe a combination of all of these, and our history's mistakes. Now our greatest enemy was our past mistakes... but I am confident such a great enemy will result in a great evolution to beat this enemy and step forward.

We must stop blaming others, and even stop blaming ourselves, because it's a learning process. Our mistakes are perhaps our greatest power... they make us realize what NOT to do.

Originally posted by Auricom
I'm fully aware that a lot of information I have is wrong, however it's the best information I have until new information comes, but that info too will be incorrect until I get more correct info. Sometimes, I may never get correct information, but only a fraction of the true information.

So are all the things I believe in right? No.

I think that's a great approach to things. It's almost like the scientific method. Thanks for sharing!

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
But how does this question about "all things" turn into a political thread?

Good question. What's the answer?

reply to post by swanne

You tell me. It's your thread and OP.

All I can say is that not "all things" are political.

And seeing as how you didn't use the ex-text quotes tools what you think is blended with your oh-so authoritative wikipedia articles.

I asked a question...

didn't offer an answer if you recall.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by swanne

 

You tell me. It's your thread and OP.

All I can say is that not "all things" are political.

And I agree. If you read my OP, you see that I do show a link between philosophies and politics (the two overlap alot when you study more about it)... but then I also go on and talk about the definition of Hope, which has no relation to politics. Why, is there something you feel out of place in my OP??...

And seeing as how you didn't use the ex-text quotes tools

I chose to ignore this tool because my OP is adapted to fit in an HTML coding without messing up the text.