Are the chemtrail agencies currently on holiday?

reply to post by FireDragonDan

I never said I was a firm believer of Chemtrails and would rather have a scientific answer for it

No offence....but....you say that you have researched "chemtrails"...............research contrails, and you will have your scientific answer in around 5 minutes.

reply to post by Gibraltarego


And when examining jet exhaust from the types of aircraft accused of chemtrailing one could also note that 60-90% of said exhaust (depending on engine type) consists of nothing more than compressed, and then rapidly decompressed air, no fuel, no combustion. That is how modern airliners are so economical and the reason they produce such thick visible contrails at altitude.

Look at this image.



The large fan at the front is where nothing but air is used, the 'jet engine' part is the much smaller diameter part visible behind this.

These are called high bypass engines and they are called this because a high proportion of the thrust is produced by air that bypasses the central engine core where combustion takes place and it is simply compressed and expelled backwards in a similar manner to how conventional propellers work.

These engines produce thicker trails when the air suddenly decompresses aft of the engine and the moisture present in the air already is drawn out, you can see the same effect when you open a can of pop, releasing the pressure, and a wispy cloud is produced for a few seconds.

Here is another image that illustrates the phenomena



I took this photo two days ago on the hottest day I've experienced for a long time, and a day of very high humidity at low level, an RAF Typhoon is pulling a high g turn and the pressure differential over the aircrafts top surface causes a momentary cloud to form. The difference is that this is at low level and so it disappears immediately, the ones from airliners are formed in regions where it is minus 30 degrees all the time and the droplets freeze. When the air is very humid these droplets cannot sublimate and the trail lingers.

And here is the visible trail from a large transport at altitude which shows nothing is being sprayed from the aircraft, there is a gap from the rear of the engine to the start of the trail, this is the time it takes for the droplets to cool and freeze.



Without this engine technology, todays jet engines would need to be much bigger and burn vastly greater quantities of fuel and be vastly more polluting than they actually are, but the trails they produced would be less visible!

Surely its a matter of priorities given that no-one is about to stop flying?

Here in Northeast Ohio, we've still been having loads of chemtrails especially at few hours and through sunset. Still looks like multiple light sources at sunset. Extremely pink sky almost looks like aurora borealis except pink and not moving.

reply to post by Argyll


Where did I say I researched Chemtrails? I said I was more than aware of the Chemtrail phenomenon.

reply to post by kazootica

Here in Northeast Ohio, we've still been having loads of chemtrails especially at few hours and through sunset. Still looks like multiple light sources at sunset. Extremely pink sky almost looks like aurora borealis except pink and not moving.

And what gives you the impression that what your seeing are chemtrails and not contrails?

And there was me thinking, I was special living in an area with no chemtrails or fluoridated water.

Originally posted by FireDragonDan
reply to post by Argyll

 

Where did I say I researched Chemtrails? I said I was more than aware of the Chemtrail phenomenon.

That's right you did, in fact you said:

I also have an "Alternative News Website" which I will not divulge the info here but lets just say I am more than aware of the Chemtrail Phenomenon than you give me credit for.

So you run an alternative website, you have more awareness of the chemtrail phenomena than you are given credit for...............................yet you have done no research?


How does that work then?

reply to post by Argyll


Quite easily really, I do a lot of reading on various subjects, i.e. I read newspapers, I watch News channels, I read a lot of news websites both MSN and Alternative News, does not mean I am researching the subject matter as I do not go out of my way to "Research" anything that has little use to me. I already do plenty of "Research" for my job and degree and as such I do not count showing an interest in a particular subject matter as research. Perhaps you may have a different definition of the word "Research" that is not the same as mine.

reply to post by FireDragonDan


Maybe the fact that you are a casual reader of chemtrails rather than a person who has researched means you believe in them because you havent learned of the general shift to HBPR engines such as I detailed in my previous post in civil aviation, haven't really seen the vast numbers of flights there are or the growth in them over previous decades and haven't really looked into the fact that the atmosphere is fluid and weather conditions at ground level do not reflect those at airliner cruise altitudes? Would that be a fair comment?

Without this basic grounding would it not be presumptuous to believe in Internet claims of spraying operations?

Have you ever tried to compare both sides of the argument?

reply to post by waynos


Have you read any of my previous comments? I actually said I was more concerned that these persistent contrails have a derogatory effect on our ability to produce Vitamin D. I also said that I was open to the possibility that Chemtrails are just normal contrails and that we should be more concerned about the amount of "Sunlight Dimming"

That said, I can understand why some folk do believe that these are Chemtrails due to the fact that both US and UK governments have in the past used aerial spraying on their populations during experiments conducted decades ago, and with that in mind what would stop these same governments doing the same again.

It seems to me that this site is just got a lot of argumentative people on it and they just like to argue for the sake of it. All my comments have been backed up with evidence from other sites and then when I provide evidence I'm accused of mining. ATS is by far the best forum for these kinds of discussions, but I do wish there was another site with just folk who wish to discuss rather than "Attack" people with different opinions. During this thread I have had four other users attacking me because 1) They have not read the whole thread, 2) When I have responded with evidence that refuted their own statements, they get personal. Was a Great site years ago, but not so much anymore.

Originally posted by FireDragonDan
reply to post by waynos

 

Have you read any of my previous comments? I actually said I was more concerned that these persistent contrails have a derogatory effect on our ability to produce Vitamin D. I also said that I was open to the possibility that Chemtrails are just normal contrails and that we should be more concerned about the amount of "Sunlight Dimming"

Dimming ended quite a few years ago and switched to brightening.

www.sciencemag.org...

reply to post by mrthumpy


Think we are discussing two different things here, You are speaking about the Solar Dimming increasing, I am talking about the cloud cover reducing UVB rays, perhaps I should have used the phrase "UVB Reduction" instead.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
reply to post by SyxDaliGee

 

Thanks Syx, sorry to p*ss you off by being rational. I guess some people are so embedded in illogical thinking and taken in by youtube and the font of all knowledge that is t'internet that they are unable to see that there is no real evidence to back them up. I will watch the videos later if I have time but trust, me I've seen plenty of videos posted by believers in this and none of them have convinced me. No one has ever claimed that geo-engineering isn't possible or does indeed happen (well some have but they are clearly ill-informed or ignorant). I know all about cloud seeding and past military experiments etc. but none of these amount to proof of daily chemtrail spraying by commercial aircraft. Bring solid proof of that to the table and I will take it up further with you.

You obviously haven't looked at the links SyxDaliGee supplied.

The links show that the US have been actively engaged in testing poisonous chemicals and compounds on innocent and unaware US citizens.

People all over the world are reporting persistent aircraft trails THAT ARE DIFFERENT to NORMAL PERSISTENT VAPOUR CONTRAILS...i had to put that in caps, because no matter how many times this is said, this one crucial point is always ignored by deniers.

WE KNOW they are short lived and perfectly normal aircraft vapour trails, WE KNOW there are long lived, or persistent and also perfectly normal aircraft vapour trails...many of us have seen them and experienced them for our entire lives, many for multiple decades...Chemtrails are NOT these normal contrails...they are designed to be mistaken for them, but they are not them.

The information is everywhere. Hundreds of thousands of witnesses around the world, hundreds of websites devoted to the subject, professional people doing the FOIA research and politicials researching this also, we have samples that have been collected and professionally lab tested to prove 300% + safe levels of Barium and Cadmium, and Arsenic and a host of other noxious and toxic substances falling from this strand-like, hazy crap dropping out of the skies.

On top of that, we have MANY, MANY instances of previous secret and horrific experiments involving the US government, the UK government carrying out aircraft spraying over unaware inhabbitants of towns and cities, that has gone on for literally decade after decade.

They have been shown to have sprayed vapour containing poisonous compounds and elements, radioactive elemenst, and also live viruses, live bacterium and who knows what else that hasn't come to light yet.

The proof of the governments' callous disregard for the health, safety and wellbeing of these targeted civilians, including many thousands of children, and the repetative and sustained decades of such 'programmes' shows catagorically that they will do these intentional poisoning of their domestic populations and contamination of their own lands, for as long as they can get away with it.

What they have been doing in secret, what the FOIA documents have revealed shows what happened and what is continuing to happen has nothing to do with 'cloud seeding' to create rain in drought areas.

Cloud seeding is used of course, whenever the 'persistent contail' excuse stretches credulity too far.

They don't just lie to us, they lie to us about everything and for as long as they can get away with lying to us.

They lie about terrorists, then lie again so they can arm them in Syria.

They lie about false flag events, to enable their armies to go and fight wars.

They lie about illegally spying on their own people, for decades, then when the lies are exposed, they don't apologise but instead make grabs for even more power of us.

They lied about experimenting on it's own people, using biological and chemical weapons of war to see what the dispersion and infection rates will be, not worrying that people are being killed and seriously injured.

They..just...lie.

All added together, it means one thing mate. It mean you're the irrational and ignorant one here.

It's a hollow victory to 'win' a forum debate, when your lungs and your childrens lungs are lined with radioactive and highly toxic nano-particles sprayed from the arse end of an unmarked aircraft.

Deny ignorance, don't embrace it.

reply to post by FireDragonDan


Wow, sorry I spoke, I thought you might actually want to engage in conversation about the matter. I didn't know you were going to chuck your doll out of the pram. I haven't attacked you at all

But in answer to one thing you said, examination of previous military spraying exercises shows them to be entirely different in every respect to what are claimed to be chemtrails today. These operations might display the will to carry out any kind of operation, but that was surely never in doubt anyway? They aren't actual evidence. Also, in the 1950's etc Britain and the US were very different places. Hopefully the more litigious nature of our societies today and the history of successful lawsuits we now have would help to temper any ambitions in this direction?

I say hopefully because we can't know, because chemtrails have never been found. If something is sprayed for 25 years and there is nothing to show for it, what's the point?

On another point, have you seen the weather in Britain? If you think aircraft trails are reducing vitamin D in kids you aren't paying attention or maybe haven't heard of the X box. I think that is a total non-argument. We KNOW that kids are being fed poor diets in poor families and that kids stay indoors partly due to computer games and also not forgetting modern parents paranoia about letting kids out to play compared to previous decades when we were out of the house all the time. Bringing aircraft trails into this equation is, IMO, grasping at straws.

reply to post by waynos


Apologies if you felt I over reacted, and perhaps I should not have tarnished you with the same brush. If you were to look at the comments made to me during this discussion, you would understand the reasoning for me jumping to conclusions on your comment.

I am more than happy to discuss anything with anyone as my Granddad once told me "You learn something new everyday" and with that in mind I am open to discussions to learn and perhaps contribute, but as I stated in my last response to you, there are some very undesirable members on here that "Attack" folk when they do not submit to their own opinions. Sites like ATS should be filled with open minded individuals willing to learn what others have to teach.

I personally like to play "Devils Advocate" and 9 times out of 10 can see both sides to most arguments and as such will comment on both sides. Hopefully next time we meet on here I will keep my dummy in

reply to post by MysterX

People all over the world are reporting persistent aircraft trails THAT ARE DIFFERENT to NORMAL PERSISTENT VAPOUR CONTRAILS...i had to put that in caps, because no matter how many times this is said, this one crucial point is always ignored by deniers.

HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT? I had to put that in caps, because no matter how many times this is said, this one crucial question is always ignored by Chemtrail believers.

Where are these tests you speak of? Are they different from the nonsense tests used in the WITWATS movies and incorporating real controlled testing? If so please post them because nobody else ever has.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by FireDragonDan

 

But in answer to one thing you said, examination of previous military spraying exercises shows them to be entirely different in every respect to what are claimed to be chemtrails today. These operations might display the will to carry out any kind of operation, but that was surely never in doubt anyway? They aren't actual evidence. Also, in the 1950's etc Britain and the US were very different places. Hopefully the more litigious nature of our societies today and the history of successful lawsuits we now have would help to temper any ambitions in this direction?

My point here was that if these governments had sprayed their unsuspecting populace decades ago then what is saying they would never do this again. I did not say they were spraying Chemtrails decades ago

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by FireDragonDan

 

On another point, have you seen the weather in Britain? If you think aircraft trails are reducing vitamin D in kids you aren't paying attention or maybe haven't heard of the X box. I think that is a total non-argument. We KNOW that kids are being fed poor diets in poor families and that kids stay indoors partly due to computer games and also not forgetting modern parents paranoia about letting kids out to play compared to previous decades when we were out of the house all the time. Bringing aircraft trails into this equation is, IMO, grasping at straws.

edit on 10-7-2013 by waynos because: (no reason given)

My point here was to take the argument away from "Chemtrails" and to be more concerned that these Aviation Contrails do leave a haze in the sky on certain days which in turn reduces our ability to produce Vitamin D. I also acknowledged the fact that "Rickets" in UK children was predominately caused by poor diet and the fact that they now spend more time in doors than we did years ago. I don't believe I am grasping a straws, and I do believe in the next few years when this has been researched again that it will be found that Contrails not only have an effect on our weather patterns, but also our Vitamin D production.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by MysterX

 

People all over the world are reporting persistent aircraft trails THAT ARE DIFFERENT to NORMAL PERSISTENT VAPOUR CONTRAILS...i had to put that in caps, because no matter how many times this is said, this one crucial point is always ignored by deniers.

HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT? I had to put that in caps, because no matter how many times this is said, this one crucial question is always ignored by Chemtrail believers.

Apart from seeing it with my own eyes, a huge number of times over recent years, I've personally read, many, many times exactly how they are different. To the point of being fed up to the back teeth of reading exactly HOW they are DIFFERENT!

How can you post arguing that you don't know about Chemtrails or don't believe even the possibility exists that the government is using either the military or private contractors to spray chemicals and toxins over populated areas, and then turn around and claim that you've never read a post from any one of the thousands of reports, from almost any of populated areas of our planet, that describes the different appearence and physical apsects and how they act once sprayed?

I don't believe you.

Research this yourself, i suspect that no amount of describing the obvious differences between persistent contrails and persistent chemtrails will make a dent on what seems to be your intentional ignorance on this.

Go to ANY chemtrail website, Youtube or Google video (or whatever online video service you use) and LOOK up any one of the thousands of descriptions available for your education.

Or don't..some people are just more comfortable avoiding the big issues, and maintaining their rose tinted version of reality i suppose. Up to you mate.

reply to post by FireDragonDan


No, I know you didnt, but Chemtrail theory holds that operations have been happening over that last three decades and the events you mentioned are often raised as a sort of "yes but..." argument. I think the part you quoted stands for itself with that in mind.

BTW, glad we're ok.