*Audio* Students turn NSA recruiting session into a HEARING

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by neobludragon

 

I think that is an over simplification of thier tone of voice. These are the voices of people who were compelled by thier patriotism, thier respect for self determination, and for the rights of citizens, to ask questions that they knew might, potentially, land them in a heap of trouble.

That they asked these questions anyway, that they wouldnt let it drop, despite thier concern, is testament to thier honour, and makes the act of asking them an even more significant, an even braver act.

I'm sure the NSA people that were there noticed the fear though, and that is the point I am trying to make. When you go against someone, you need to be sure and not unsure like these students were.

reply to post by neobludragon


The only people who have ever stood against an organisation which has the size and reach of the NSA, without any fear, are psychopaths. Everyone else has one or another healthy measure of fear when confronting such a vast and dangerous construction. Fear is a chemical reaction in the brain, which has kept our species alive in the face of massive predators, harsh winters, sudden flash floods, earthquakes, and disasters of every stripe, terror attacks and wars for tens of thousands of years.

Fear is the initial trigger of fight or flight response mechanisms in our brains. Fearing something so much that it makes you run, is flight, which in some cases is the logical and pro-active thing to do. Having fear and standing to face it anyway, because it is the right, or best thing to do in the circumstances prevailing can also be the right thing to do. The Hollywood fearlessness of hero's and action men however, one only gets through either training, or neurological imbalance, or perhaps a dose of one narcotic or another.

I cannot begrudge these young people thier nervousness in this scenario, and I applaud them for overcoming the nerves, and taking the NSA down a peg or two in the minds of those present, and those who listened to this clip. It is perhaps one of the most inspiring non-musical audio files, I have ever heard.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Their fear of speaking didn't help to bring the NSA down. If the NSA was really scared of us then they wouldn't go to colleges to try and recruit, they knew what would happen, they expected it. They just wanted to see who would speak out, and now they know who will and who won't. They see the fear and they grow off of it.

::::grabs a bag of popcorn::: NSA at schools recruiting I believe it. Same thing as Army recruiters trying to refresh the ranks after they used the previous soldiers as cannon fodder. The NSA wants to recruit smart young adults, but wants them to look the other way and play dumb down stupid to the lies and corruption. It was hilarious and entertaining to listen to these young adults flame broil these liars. Oops their recruit plan didn't work to well and it was undeniably obvious these young adults are clearly above average intelligence. That young lady needs to be recruited instead to the oversight committee to watch over the NSA like a hawk and continue to speak her mind. It's time they learned that the foundation will crumble if you build a government on lies instead of truth. Say it exactly the way it needs to be said.

When I listened to this the other day I couldn't stop smiling and listened to it again. It was so refreshing after reading so much negative stuff all day and the overwhelming feeling of powerlessness that it often results in.
So I posted it on in various sites in the hope it encourages others and perhaps makes them think about ways to get more discussion going on this serious issue.(in every day situations)

There are many good points made but this one I found particularly funny:

Student B: General Alexander also lied in front of Congress.

NSA_F: I don’t know about that.

Student B: Probably because access to the Guardian is restricted on the NSA’s computers. I am sure they don’t encourage people like you to actually think about these things. Thank God for a man like Edward Snowden who your organization is now part of a manhunt trying to track down, trying to put him in a little hole somewhere for the rest of his life. Thank god they exist.

The thing that allowed the students to embarrass the recruiters so readily was that they had done their homework and had the facts at hand. If you build it up based on facts you can get away with little daggers like the one above...

When I was unexpectedly thrown in de deep end on a live radio programme on monday night (www.abovetopsecret.com... ) I might well have lost my nerve and been dismissed as a "tinfoil-hat looney", had I not had the important information I wanted to get accross at the front of my mind.

Yes I am an adversary and I'm proud of it

I am trying to wake up the dk. But this is so good

Go US Young People fore Wake up and dont eat NsA & Government bull#

S&F

I try share on Twitter with some text " #NSA and #dkpol ". But the little text i had with the link. Did not come on???

D?

Very interesting audio recording indeed... Thanks for posting this!

reply to post by bowaconstricta

The thing that allowed the students to embarrass the recruiters so readily was that they had done their homework and had the facts at hand. If you build it up based on facts you can get away with little daggers like the one above...

Oddly, I found them very ineffective except to make a scene and show how poor judgement can be for time and place for a thing. They didn't change or accomplish anything ...except insure higher academic efforts may be, how should I say.....troublesome? I see FAFSA Audits regularly in their future... lol....

Seriously though. The quote you use there is a good example of how they DID NOT do their homework. One of these days, they'll run into a Government Official that isn't all but submissive by orders and fear of violating public relations in any way, at any time. That will be interesting as a two sided contest in a thing like this.

#1. The NSA Restricts things like the Guardian at times like this for the same reason the Army and Air Force did. It isn't from every device, but from those connected to scanned, secured and monitored Government networks. Should a Classified document pop-up on one of those systems where it shouldn't have been popping up FROM ...like an outside internet connection, for instance, it'll create 10 different forms of headache and could really make trouble for the guy who pulled it up ..100% and FULLY automated by computer scan and response for a good % of the first part of the whole mess. FAR easier to restrict the potential SOURCE ...than expect 10's of thousands of human beings to "not touch the hot stove" after being asked nicely.

#2 Trying to make Snowden out to be Robin Hood with a Cloak and Dagger is going to backfire in a huge way. Yes, Snowden exposed some things and yes, that's been very helpful and important. However, holding him up to THIS audience the students were focused on would be like praising cop killers in a cop bar. Not very productive and it makes the complainer look like an idiot, IMO. The general public doesn't know quite what to make of Snowden, which isn't better in real terms.

Appeal against what the NSA has been doing to impact the Rights of the common person ...because middle America won't rally around Snowden with that gray cloud he has over his head ...with streaks of black, I think. They MAY rally around the anger of being violated in ways they can understand and FEEL violated about.

If the students HAD done their homework, I think they'd have approached it differently and left the NSA recruiters looking like buffoons and stereotypical movie goons, not simply shouted down and run down.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thank you for your reply.

I think you're right about me not giving a good example of their grasp of the facts. I was unaware of the blocking of Guardian site for the reason you describe... makes sense.
The whole transcript reminded me of my youth where we would collectively take on a teacher in class leaving them speechless, much like these NSA recruiters.
I posted my reaction a few days after hearing it prehaps clouding my recollection of the actual dialogue. I had also been spending a lot of time and energy on different fora encouraging people to take on the army of NSA/government appologists/shills/astroturfers and arming them with factual material to aid them, emphasizing the importance of deflecting argument away from the messenger.
In my eagerness to encourage a grasp of the facts in combination with sleep deprivation I lazily chose this topic as an (wrong) example.

A video was posted on youtube with this audio clip and some visuals to go along, check it out...very share-able!

reply to post by bowaconstricta


Oh hey, my apologies. I had no idea you put real world time into encouraging people to speak up and do things, even if they're symbolic like this. It's one thing to see and comment on this as one story of dozens, all varying in importance and context........it's quite another to actually BE the people doing it or having the courage to put the time into helping others.

If I've read you right for what you're saying your efforts are then I'd certainly encourage learning the small details like that procedural reason for blocking some public sites from some internal/secure networks. It's not a matter of being "Mr. Right" as much as it's a matter of not JUST putting recruiters in their place, but making THEM question things as well. Maybe later that evening ...maybe a week from then...but seek to raise things even they'll ask themselves about later.

After all.... The NSA has the most intelligent people in the world for the fields they recruit. They have the best because they pay the best, or coerce the best or entrap the best or however they need to make it happen for their needs. The point being .....The actual NSA Officers like these kids were challenging are as far from mindless bots as anything in Government service gets. One of them might be the next leaker if challenged the right way.

reply to post by eLPresidente


I'm about 90% sure I want to leave the United States. Maybe Israel, or Belize. This nation has become utterly FUBAR in the past few decades. And now they are trying to legalize up to 30 million more people.

Fed up.

Wow! Even the Guardian is running this story now which is funny because I got the story there from one of the commenters last week..
(I can't comment there at the moment, second time in 2 days this has happened ???)

NSA recruitment drive goes horribly wrong

This video proves there is a long way to go to educate people... do it! just start a conversation with a complete stranger about it!

reply to post by eLPresidente


Interesting comment, from the female NSA employee, that no one seemed to pick up on.

NSA_F: I don’t believe the NSA is telling complete lies. And I do believe that you know, people can, you can read a lot of different things that are portrayed as fact and that doesn’t make them fact just because they’re in newspapers.

source

It does not mean it's true just because it's in the press.

I guess they thought that dressing up in costumes ( hopefully not a ZONTAR costume) and getting drunk at some local dive surrounded by inebriated inbreds would be appealing to the average high functioning student....how out of touch are we?

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

Interesting comment, from the female NSA employee, that no one seemed to pick up on.

NSA_F: I don’t believe the NSA is telling complete lies. And I do believe that you know, people can, you can read a lot of different things that are portrayed as fact and that doesn’t make them fact just because they’re in newspapers.

source

It does not mean it's true just because it's in the press.

I find it extremely curious that the female rep tries to draw lines between fact and fiction yet she keep reiterating how she isn't in a position to answer or know all of these answers. She tries to keep a nice cushy barrier between her, the NSA, and having to answer questions (that she claims she doesn't know how to answer)...then goes on to draw doubt by attacking the press.

Clever!.....not...

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

While I applaud their actions how long will it takes before the students were branded as terrorists and have the swat team swarm into their homes.

Don't ever promote that people should passively give into fear, do the right thing and stand up for anyone they target.

Originally posted by eLPresidente

I find it extremely curious that the female rep tries to draw lines between fact and fiction yet she keep reiterating how she isn't in a position to answer or know all of these answers. She tries to keep a nice cushy barrier between her, the NSA, and having to answer questions (that she claims she doesn't know how to answer)...then goes on to draw doubt by attacking the press.

Clever!.....not...

Ever thought she may not have been attacking anyone. Ever thought she may actually have been dropping a hint?

"Hey guys, don't believe the story, it's just make believe. A bit of a psy-op. A bit of a disinformation campaign."

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by bowaconstricta

 

The thing that allowed the students to embarrass the recruiters so readily was that they had done their homework and had the facts at hand. If you build it up based on facts you can get away with little daggers like the one above...

#1. The NSA Restricts things like the Guardian at times like this for the same reason the Army and Air Force did. It isn't from every device, but from those connected to scanned, secured and monitored Government networks. Should a Classified document pop-up on one of those systems where it shouldn't have been popping up FROM ...like an outside internet connection, for instance, it'll create 10 different forms of headache and could really make trouble for the guy who pulled it up ..100% and FULLY automated by computer scan and response for a good % of the first part of the whole mess. FAR easier to restrict the potential SOURCE ...than expect 10's of thousands of human beings to "not touch the hot stove" after being asked nicely.

I used to think that the access to sites being blocked to avoid breaches in access to classified materials was understandable for this reason. Access to something like Wikileaks should be blocked as, just because it's on Wikileaks, not everybody is going to being look at it. PRISM, however, was widely covered across every news organization. With such a highly public release, the point of the document being classified is moot. I recall reading yesterday that General Alexander stated that the PRISM document had been declassified at this point. Blocking the press from being accessible to those working within the DoD serves nothing other than preserving the hierarchy of power from potential instability. Based on the environment that I grew up in, however, I daresay that there would be very few within the DoD that were unaware of the possibility of surveillance at any time. Much of what goes on within the DoD is about following orders and not questioning your superiors. You start doing the latter and the efficacy of the department deteriorates. They really do prefer a mindless automaton.

Being a part of the DoD often seems to me to be like becoming a second class citizen. You lose a whole lot of rights.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


While I would agree that the logic behind keeping publicly available documents within the classified system eludes me. After all, they're about as classified as the comics section of the Sunday paper at this point.

However, the automated security scanners and computer checks don't know, care or check to see if the classified document they've detected should or shouldn't be classified. It just knows the document meets criteria for what it's been programmed to search and alert on.

So... They can block the sites that will hit erroneous documents (across those few scanned and monitored networks, anyway) that alert security crisis when none actually exists ..and go on wild goose chases all over the DOD system on a heavy news day .... Or they can declassify all the papers as soon as they're leaked (then, fat chance of prosecuting anyone for leaking what they did that for in silencing the alerts). I don't see where they have many choices ...and the computers make this 100% automated and beyond human control at the level which matters. The scan and 'ring the alarm bells' level.