Nicaragua approves massive new canal project. (Panama on steroids)

I place this here for a forum because I don't really care about the politics of it. Ortega was an enemy when I was a teenager. He's not MY enemy, however I feel about his politics in general. No...I'm absolutely horrified at the environmental implications here.

MANAGUA, Nicaragua (AP) — A proposal to build a massive rival to the Panama Canal across the middle of Nicaragua was overwhelmingly backed by lawmakers Thursday, capping a lightning-fast approval process that has provoked deep skepticism among shipping experts and concern among environmentalists.

The National Assembly dominated by President Daniel Ortega's leftist Sandinista Front voted to grant a 50-year concession to study, then possibly build and run, a canal linking Nicaragua's Caribbean and Pacific coasts to a Chinese company whose only previous experience appears to be in telecommunications.

Source

The Panama Canal is listed on the linked facts site there as being 48 dredged miles. Once the United States began it's own effort where France had left off, it took 14 years to build. Between America and France, the construction claimed the lives of 28,000 people, including 6,000 Americans during that phase. Most were lost to conditions and disease.

By using google earth, the shortest route I could find crosses Lake Nicaragua and is just over 133 air miles. In harsh terrain, as that is, it will end up being longer in actual canal distance and transit mileage.



Here are the basic stats of the lake it will necessarily have to cross.


(Source: Google)

At this point, the project is merely in the survey and assessment stage. Although, if China is backing the company involved in their usual Government/Private partnership arrangement, then the resources of China would be brought to bear to some degree and at some points in the project. They'd have to be, as no private company could hope to complete such a venture all by itself.

My question is...just how much damage to the environment down there does this stand to do in basically duplicating what already exists to the South? I get how every nation wants something of it's very own and canal fees are...staggering in the money involved. A 2010 story here highlights a few of the figures as well as another detail to this issue.

Despite the global crisis, which affected international trade, the canal only saw small declines in traffic during fiscal year 2009. The total number of transits reached 14,342, which was a 2.4 percent fall from fiscal year 2008.Their combined tonnage fell by 3.3 percent to 299.1 PC/UMS (Panama Canal / Universal Metric System).

Toll revenues grew despite the fall because the ACP implemented new tariffs.

The 96-year old canal is undergoing a $5.2 billion expansion program that will allow bigger ships to transit the waterway, starting in 2014.

Source

The Panama Canal is already planned for a massive expansion effort, which answers one of the main reasons why a second or replacement canal could be justified. In short, the Panama Canal is becoming too small for the largest ships in the world. However, this will be solved soon.

(Source)

So, I really am disturbed by all this. It's not like building a road or a power line. This will change the land, life, lake structure and entire environment of Southern Nicaragua forever, if constructed. I just can't see the justified reason vs. the expected gain and damage which necessarily comes with ...well, terra forming, which is the best way to describe this in my opinion.

Thoughts?

I thought China already had control over the Panama Canal. Why would they want control over an additional canal in the same region?

Just seems unnecessary to me. While the Panama Canal is narrow and has long waits (up to 10 days sometimes) I think it would make more sense to just widen the Panama.

As the Chinese are involved I would think this was not just a commercial venture.Their own canal would come in handy for a large eastern country to move military ships thru that could hit eastern US coast or Europe.

It would seem to me that there are two possible explanations.

The first is financial. Two canals will allow twice as much shipping to pass without delays. If you have up to ten days delay now then perhaps another canal is needed.

The second is military. Who controls Panama now and who is paying for the upgrade are good questions. In a war, does Panama shut certain navies out of the canal and if so then a new canal makes perfect sense.

If it is military in nature then it will be a case of the environment be damned, full speed ahead.

P

Reading through on the wiki about the Panama Canal Expansion Project I'm seeing some extensive work that they claim will be done by 2015:

The project will:

Build two new locks, one each on the Atlantic and Pacific sides.

Each will have three chambers with water-saving basins.

Excavate new channels to the new locks.

Widen and deepen existing channels.

Raise Gatun Lake's maximum operating level.[1]

Seems to be a bit of conflict over the environmental impact widening the existing canal might have:

Critics of the project contend there are many environmental topics to be considered, such as the link between El Niño (ENSO) and global warming's threat to water supplies.

I would think in either case, expanding the Panama Canal or a new one being created would have environmental impacts.

The Chinese seek to solidify their own empire as AMERICA DID AND DOES SINCE INCEPTION..
Ever hear of manifrst destiny?
The new canal will spell the death of the lake no doubt....ocean going vessels carry all kinds of aliens along with them....
.The projects seems too enormous to be profitable in the near term...many .decades will be required to pay it off....maybe its Chinas ploy for control of Nacaragua economically?.

reply to post by stirling


Honestly, I have no problem with the Chinese working to do these things. How can I and keep a straight face? As you say, America has been doing it for 60+ years now. At least, we used to be... Now we're becoming expansionist in the absolute worst ways and isolationist in any way that actually had benefit to it.

However, China's very legitimate effort to gain global influence and take their place as a Superpower isn't something to be mad at them for trying. It's something to look sideways at a nation like Nicaragua for allowing. The article the main story came from says in the top part that Nicaragua will get minor profits from it across the long term agreements. I assume this means the Chinese company is shouldering most or all of the costs (again... private company my foot on that). That sounds like a few pieces light of the standard 30 of silver in the pouch for this one, eh?

The original Canal? Oh I can see the need for that 100%. The trip down around the Cape as the only alternative must have been hellish, depending on the time of year. That's still where I would love to be with a salvage company capable of working the worst of the waters there. Either Cape for that matter. Talk about ship graveyards and if I'm not mistaken, still with a majority intact for their booty. The same thing that sank so many is what prevents deep recovery and salvage. Bad places.

A second Canal? Errrrr...... Okay, so Managua gets the bragging rights of saying they own their very own..kinda. I didn't even check, but now that I think about it? I wonder....given the issues in the Amazon and elsewhere. How many native people and others live where this will plow through the Jungle and change life forever? They won't be there for long if it finds a survey route.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It will defiantly happen. I travel there every year and China has set up huge wind turbines that supply the majority of the country’s electricity off of the lake as you take the bus from Costa Rica to Nicaragua you see them. A couple years ago there was a border dispute between the two from all things it was because Google Maps screwed up. That was settled by Costa Rira building a definitive road along the border I think that was backed by China as well.

Competition is the American way and this will promote just that. Environmentally I have a few concerns. Lake Nicaragua has the world’s only fresh water Bull sharks which have adapted over hundreds if not thousands of years. Ometepe Island is one of the most beautiful places I have been and climbed an active volcano.

Nicaragua is still a fairly poor country and this would boost their economy greatly. If they can control the saltwater flow through locks then I still may not like it but it is their country and their future.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


BTW wrabbit from the looks of the map they would be well below Managua and even below the city of Grenada it looks like they would build just below San Juan Del Sur and the locals there have been hopeing for it for years. As far as displacing locals the only area would possibly be near the pacific where the creole populace lives not many though it is called Mosquito Coast for a reason it isn’t like the amazon.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I sincerely hope it goes as you describe. For their sake as a very poor nation, I hope it does. The agreement stipulating a very small amount of revenue going to Nicaragua didn't sound promising for long term balance, but the construction itself may help.

I'm skeptical by track record I suppose. Grand projects in Central and South America by outside companies and national interests rarely seem to pan out quite as well for the local population as it's sold to them as. The transamazon highway comes to mind as another modern wonder, touted as a boon to local poverty issues and regional difficulties. That didn't quite work out as planned.

Perhaps this will be the exception to the rule though. Every rule needs one.

I did find a couple other maps and I must say, they have their work cut out for them. Compared to topography of Panama, it ought to test the limits of everyone involved. After all, the comparatively short Panama Canal is termed a wonder of the modern world.



The night light situation does look sparse for population down there.

NASA Black Marble Image

Vegetation / Foliage

Population Distribution

reply to post by cleverhans


Well, because the new canal would be ginormeous. From what I read a few days ago it would be three times the size of the Panama Canal. It is a brave new world and one where the US will be challenged. It does appear that way.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If it is anything like the Panama Canal then both passages and crew will take shore leave there even if it is for a limited time which will be a major boost to the local economy. I think anything like that would be welcomed by the indigenous to the area. As it is they already rely heavily on tourism. Greengos like me who live months in the areas for surfing and hiking. I would hate to see places like Grenada or Ometepe ruined by an influx of people. I had also recently discovered an island paradise about 80 miles off the coast which has minimal outside influence but that will not last long.

It is just progress I can only hope they do it with some restraint.

This looks like a VERY destructive project in the name of money. I have an uncle living there, I'm curious what his thoughts are now..

Thanks for raising this topic wrabbit!

My second question, is the indigenous people in the region. How will they be affected? Will there be a process of free prior informed consent (FPIC) and be working with the people there, if affected?

I really don't like "progress" in its current, unsustainable (for the Earth) way.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yeah that's China's doing. They are a major player in this project.

Don't worry though. We aren't sleeping and we are a giant. We will try to shoot it down, or sabotage it, or just Increase taxes on imports to our countries. In the end they want to cut us out of the control loop, while still selling to us.....

You don't piss off your best customers. That is just bad business.

Bringing this thread back, considering this recent development.

"The report comes nearly a month after Nicaraguan lawmakers gave a Chinese company a 50-year concession to design, build and manage a shipping channel across the Central American nation that would compete with the Panama Canal."

This was in an article today I read: Link

Not sure the grand scheme that China has but they sure do have a lot of Money to spend. Reminds me of the Japanese in the Mid 80's.

You all should watch documentary of the building of the panama canal. It was like one of our greatest feats. I really don't see another one happening anytime soon.

reply to post by tadaman


I think you GROSSLY UNDERestimate China's dedication to its own pride . . . it's own manifest destiny to rule the world in the CHINESE CENTURY or the CHINESE MILLENIUM as they see it.

They see the Western world as holding them back for a very long time and that they are overdue to rule the world.

HANG THE DETAILS.

They see the USA as falling into oblivion and are happy to help in that process of squashing &/or consuming/taking over the USA.

Yeah, the economics could be interesting to say the least.

But they don't CARE THAT much about THAT

COMPARED to their pride in culture and in !CONTROL! . . . they are quite given to ruthless power-mongering when they feel like it. And on such scores, a great many of them FEEL LIKE IT.

Now how all this will fit into the NWO globalist schemes remains to be seen.

Certainly THEY want the NWO built on the ashes of the USA because it's easier that way.

It is also not clear WHEN the NWO traitors will engineer their maximum WW3 population reduction schemes. THAT would reduce trade and shipping a great deal, imho.


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reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I can't see this ever happening to be honest. It says they have agreed to a 50 year moratorium, rather than they will be commencing anytime soon. 50 days is a huge time in politics, never mind 50 years. It also provides 50 years to come up with very good reasons not to proceed!

You never know though, in 50 years it could be a much smaller distance (sea level rise).