Make it a requirement to have offspring/s to enter the armed forces

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by Jepic
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I've already gone through the differences between different age groups so I'm only going to go over new things pointed out.

The Military should be paying the servicemen more than they do now. They should also do some changes to become a more qualification specialised Institution. This means that even to be an average soldier you should have at least a university degree depending on what field you want to join in. For example a degree in a field having to do with ballistics. This way the job of an average soldier would not only be to use an artillery system but also as a scientist in a military research facility. Now you say "Who will be using the artillery system then?" For that we can have rotations. While one serviceman is on a combat Rotation the other could be in a facility doing research. If we make this part of the contract the military will attract more educated and specialised People who will significantly increase the reputation of having a job in the military.

As for military life having a toll on personal relationships we could also implement rotations. 2 months the serviceman can be at work and the next 2 months he can be with his family and so forth.

But it's crucial that the military change its image from a last resort place for slack offs to a friendly workplace akin to a university where the main purpose is not war but technology/medical research and humanitarian assistance.

Using weapon platforms should not be the main job of a serviceman.

I am completely baffled by this post. You want the military to become a friendly workforce? I'm sorry but is that a joke? I mean the military no matter what the technology level is a mechanism used to fight a war. People die in wars, it is a fact of life. You cannot just change the rules of warfare because of your views on the preciousness of human life. At some point you HAVE to put the people's lives in danger and they will HAVE to follow orders to the letter. If we were to implement the changes to our military that you propose, our military would become the laughing stock of the world. It would be largely ineffectual due to low participation rates, the soldiers would be cowards priding intelligence over placing themselves in danger, and they'd also be weak due to trying to maintain peak physical condition while they are over the hill and approaching or in their 30's. Look up the army PT test, there is a reason that the test gets easier after you reach the age of 25.

You are trying to turn a structure created to fight war into something peaceful and friendly. Might as well just disband the military and just create more government jobs. You should really just stop this argument. Might as well be making a pitch for everyone in the world to lay down their arms and live harmoniously together to improve the quality of our life. Sure its a great idea, but in reality is likely to never happen and can be considered as fanciful as the lord of the rings series.

Absolutely agree. The military is a force ready in the event of war. And there is absolutely no reason why there should be boots in the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq. The same reason why there should be no boots on the ground in any modern warfare scenario. You can do the job with aircraft and artillery. There is no reason why a test should get easier after 25. None. The soldiers would be combat ready servicemen priding solid and detailed intelligence to carry out their mission. How it should be. A la bin laden raid style. Other than bin laden ending up dead, the mission was a complete success.

There would be enough participation. And then some. For reasons already mentioned.

The military should be an institution that preaches peace rather than war.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by Jepic
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

And that's the problem. The military nowadays is seen as a place where you are a bullet sponge. We should give higher standards to people who wish to enter. You don't need a million bodies to fight ground warfare anymore. You just need a handful of platoons who are specialised, well trained and are in the right place at the right time. You can achieve that with good intel. The USA has that. They have good Intel most of the time. They just ignore it many times too.

Modern warfare is fast. You don't have the time to drive your tank up to Berlin anymore.
Entire divisions can be taken out by a few well placed bombs.

I'd rather be part of a special ops company prepared for any eventuality than be part of an infantry division with limited capabilites. The same that I would want experienced, wise and combat hardened men by my side than fresh out of puberty teenagers.

Yes you in fact do. Look at Iraq, Afghanistan, heck even Vietnam. We were superior in every way technologically and yet rag tag groups of rebels and insurgents managed to frustrate us for many years. No amount of technology reduced or curbed this fact either. We needed bodies on the ground to fight back and during the course of this fighting, people died.

Do you have any idea the amount of hardship that one has to go through to join a special ops team? The training is some of the most physically demanding things you can do. Most of the trainees who join special forces wash out because they just can't hack it. There is a reason they are the elite. If special forces were our backbone, our military could be rolled over in no time because they'd just get overwhelmed in a real war.

What do you know about fighting side by side with someone fresh out of puberty? Have you done it before? I have, I actually had someone in my unit who turned 18 just in time for our unit to be shipped off to Iraq. He was a very reliable soldier and I'd fight side by side with him before many people 10 years older than him. He and others around his age (myself included) reacted and handled a very dangerous situation with no casualties to our platoon. By the way the entry age for special forces is 20 and the cutoff age is 30. link So even if you did happen to be in special forces, chances are you would side by side with a young adult straight out of puberty. Also what makes someone battle hardened? Experience, everyone starts out as a rookie. No one just joins a profession with experience. So even if we implemented your rules, you'd still end up fighting besides someone who may never have seen combat in his life.

edit on 8-5-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

Sending in ground troops to fight a Guerilla war is a mistake I would expect a 10 year old to make. The most effective way of fighting a guerilla war is by air during the night with aircraft that have thermal Imaging. After taking out the AA guns of course. That's the priority. That's it.

An adult can take the hardships of special ops training quite well I tell you.

Everyone starts out a rookie. On that you are right. And I'll take an adult rookie.

What current policy is doesn't interest me. This thread is about what my policy would be. If you don't like it, that's your right. At least for now judging by how your country is going.

Originally posted by Arnie123

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Arnie123
reply to post by Jepic

 

Okay, your not getting it are you? WHAT JOB DOES CARE ABOUT YOU? Does mcdonalds provide health benefits 6 months after you leave the military? Or give your spouse 400,000 plus non taxable pay if I go under? Or surgeries for my little infant who may need it?
You have never been military, if so, its a damn shame your not educated about it, sure the gov doesnt give two cents about you, but the military has a wide variety of programs to help military families along with single soldiers. Because of those programs, I laugh at your proposal. I can get a zero interest free loan to help pay for emergencies, my spouse can enroll in programs for military tuition aid, there are a number of things one can do in the military to get ahead in life after the military.
You worry about bloodlines? Bam, got a little girl, bloodline secure. Next? You say the military considers you cannon foldr? Sorry conventional warfare has gone the way of the dinosaurs and no, we are not cannon folder, you've been influence by too much tv. Next?....whats next?
If see your from the united kingdom, I'm not hating on anybody, but keep your nose in YOUR countries affairs, bring your ideas to them, you just let us do our thing.I get it, you like to help people, well instead of fighting pointless debates, go to a soup kitchen an help out there. Go to africa an feed kids. Bring your ideas to your army and that'll be all. Simple.

It shouldn't be the job of the military to pay for your mistakes. The military should be for people who have a genuine interest to serve and that can only be guaranteed when you have people in it that have no financial problems. We can make special cost free programs to help out people that are stuck in life. The military is not the place for that. You know why a job in the military is not generally seen in a good light? It's because it's full of people that had no other alternative but to join in order to have some money. In other words it's a welfare program. It shouldn't be a welfare program. GET REAL.

Wow, the only person who needs to get real is YOU. You so set in your ways now your just ignoring poster response, your not providing any reals means of any kind of response, your simply just changing your wording now. You disgust me. Your blood line theory disgust me. There is nothing in this thread that shows your going to change your stance, the only people you actuallu agree with are the ones who hate the military.
This thread is done an over with. Whatever "Profession" it is you do must be pretty low for you to attack the military, or somthing happened, what you lost family? Welcome to life, reality check.
Moderators, if your reading these post, then please, close this thread as it is going nowhere but the dumpster as it will eventually violate some T&C rules they way the OP responses are, repetitive. Utter garbage.

Nah. The person that needs to get real is YOU. It seems you are set in your ways too. I've never changed any wording. It's within your right to feel disgusted by anything you may wish to be disgusted about. I believe the people I agree with have never expressed their opinion of the military. Don't start making assumptions about people you know nothing about. This thread is not done in the least because if there is a member that wants to discuss my topic, I'll gladly debate about the thread topic unlike yourself who apart from having an irritating demeanor from the beginning is now starting to make absolutely no contribution whatsoever.

And lighten up pal. Life is too short to be bitter.

P.S.: No. I've never lost anyone in the military. Have you?

Originally posted by Jepic
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I've already gone through the differences between different age groups so I'm only going to go over new things pointed out.

The Military should be paying the servicemen more than they do now. They should also do some changes to become a more qualification specialised Institution. This means that even to be an average soldier you should have at least a university degree depending on what field you want to join in. For example a degree in a field having to do with ballistics. This way the job of an average soldier would not only be to use an artillery system but also as a scientist in a military research facility. Now you say "Who will be using the artillery system then?" For that we can have rotations. While one serviceman is on a combat Rotation the other could be in a facility doing research. If we make this part of the contract the military will attract more educated and specialised People who will significantly increase the reputation of having a job in the military.

As for military life having a toll on personal relationships we could also implement rotations. 2 months the serviceman can be at work and the next 2 months he can be with his family and so forth.

But it's crucial that the military change its image from a last resort place for slack offs to a friendly workplace akin to a university where the main purpose is not war but technology/medical research and humanitarian assistance.

Using weapon platforms should not be the main job of a serviceman.

Okay, first, let me say I was extremely offended by your post.

I was not a "Slack off". Nor was my father when he joined.

Nor was my son when he joined.

So first, get you head wrapped around this: many people from many different walks of life join the military.

Next: education.

Your job in the military can be very technical, or it can be very simple, in a technical way. Higher education while you are in the US military is encouraged, even to the point where there are different ways that the military will help you with your college education.

Joining with a degree: you are officer material at that point. Enlisted personnel tend to be non-degree people. However there are many that do have degrees or earned them while in. If you do, it counts quite a bit towards your advancement, and you will be very encouraged to apply for like OCS and become a commissioned officer.

R&D DOES get done by the military. Not just private contractors.

Rotation: care to explain how you are going to rotate personnel every 2 months off of a ship deployed for 6 or more months? Fly them out and back every 2 months?

Wow. You spend more money that even Obama does. Whew!

Let me look at that.......okay, a ship is sent down to Cuba for training (combat training). Takes about 2 months......then we rotate the personnel who have been trained off of it and put fresh meat on the ship to deploy them? Bad idea.
Okay, so we spend an extra 2 months being there so that the new crew can be trained too. Then rotate the original crew and send them on their way.

So now, you've made the ship stay in a place for 4 months, when it really only needed to be there for 2.

A logistical nightmare.

Still haven't addressed the fact that 18 year olds learn faster, and tend to not wash out as bad as 28 year olds.

Besides: your thread was based upon the fact that they should be required to have a child.

How's that going?

After rereading through many of your posts, and especially those you have recently made, several things have become quite clear:

1) You're from the UK, and really have NO idea how the US Military and all it's different branches work. And no, every country's military is not the same in how they treat their personnel, how they train them, and how they take care of things. I would HIGHLY recommend that you look into and study more about the US Military if you are going to address those things.

2) You are trying to turn the military into some sort of 9 to 5 business job. That's not what it is, nor will it ever be.

The military is a brother/sister hood. For some, yes, it's just a job with a paycheck. For many, it's a career that involves much, much more than just getting a check at the end of the pay period. For many it's a learning experience to better their lives. Many who enter, walk away feeling much more confident in their abilities and in themselves..

When you're in, you become part of something that can be hard to explain and for many who have never served to understand. If anyone that I knew while I was in the Navy needed help, there's not one thing I wouldn't do to try and help them.
And it extends after that: you end up wanting to help any that served like you, even if you never knew them while you were in.

Try getting John Doe who works for (some big corporation) to feel and do the same thing.

You won't. Because all John Doe cares about is getting that paycheck, and doing anything he can to get ahead in the company, even screwing over people he works with.

3) Over all you really need to understand the military better. All branches have been the way they are for centuries. You're asking them to break tradition and things that have been upheld for centuries. In some cases more than 1,000 years.

You're trying to turn it into a exclusive company, where only certain people are allow so they can earn a paycheck at a 9 to 5 type job, and get our government to spend even more than the almost 900 BILLION dollars it spends each year already.

Not going to happen.

Even the BBB would be screaming bloody murder over it and filing many law suits about it (oh, and the ACLU too).

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by Jepic
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I've already gone through the differences between different age groups so I'm only going to go over new things pointed out.

The Military should be paying the servicemen more than they do now. They should also do some changes to become a more qualification specialised Institution. This means that even to be an average soldier you should have at least a university degree depending on what field you want to join in. For example a degree in a field having to do with ballistics. This way the job of an average soldier would not only be to use an artillery system but also as a scientist in a military research facility. Now you say "Who will be using the artillery system then?" For that we can have rotations. While one serviceman is on a combat Rotation the other could be in a facility doing research. If we make this part of the contract the military will attract more educated and specialised People who will significantly increase the reputation of having a job in the military.

As for military life having a toll on personal relationships we could also implement rotations. 2 months the serviceman can be at work and the next 2 months he can be with his family and so forth.

But it's crucial that the military change its image from a last resort place for slack offs to a friendly workplace akin to a university where the main purpose is not war but technology/medical research and humanitarian assistance.

Using weapon platforms should not be the main job of a serviceman.

Okay, first, let me say I was extremely offended by your post.

I was not a "Slack off". Nor was my father when he joined.

Nor was my son when he joined.

So first, get you head wrapped around this: many people from many different walks of life join the military.

Next: education.

Your job in the military can be very technical, or it can be very simple, in a technical way. Higher education while you are in the US military is encouraged, even to the point where there are different ways that the military will help you with your college education.

Joining with a degree: you are officer material at that point. Enlisted personnel tend to be non-degree people. However there are many that do have degrees or earned them while in. If you do, it counts quite a bit towards your advancement, and you will be very encouraged to apply for like OCS and become a commissioned officer.

R&D DOES get done by the military. Not just private contractors.

Rotation: care to explain how you are going to rotate personnel every 2 months off of a ship deployed for 6 or more months? Fly them out and back every 2 months?

Wow. You spend more money that even Obama does. Whew!

Let me look at that.......okay, a ship is sent down to Cuba for training (combat training). Takes about 2 months......then we rotate the personnel who have been trained off of it and put fresh meat on the ship to deploy them? Bad idea.
Okay, so we spend an extra 2 months being there so that the new crew can be trained too. Then rotate the original crew and send them on their way.

So now, you've made the ship stay in a place for 4 months, when it really only needed to be there for 2.

A logistical nightmare.

Still haven't addressed the fact that 18 year olds learn faster, and tend to not wash out as bad as 28 year olds.

Besides: your thread was based upon the fact that they should be required to have a child.

How's that going?

Never called YOU a slack off...

Before shipping out anywhere the crew is already trained.

How the US military works now is not what I made this topic about. My topic is about what I consider the ideal way of how a modern military should work. And in that military there is no place for people who don't have at least degree qualification and less so for people who have no siblings or independent offsprings.

But just to answer your question, we would send the ship and yes then the crew would be replaced by another already trained crew that will then take part in that exercise. Once the exercise is finished the crew is replaced again by the previous crew who is transported by plane to the vessels. So on and so on. In case of war though you can be called up at anytime.

I've addressed the 18/28 mental capacity issue in previous posts. Look it up if you wish. Or not.

It's going pretty good. Everyone that has a good heart agreed with me.

reply to post by Jepic


If you had done any study about the US military: you'd know we already do that with crews on subs.

And your OP is about requiring people who wish to enter the military to have an offspring to keep their "blood line" going.

Not on how the military is run. Not on how it does operations.

BTW - I knew more than ANY 4 year degree student about advanced electronics at 19 after my schools. I could run circles around them.

By the time I left the Navy, the first place I went to work for, would bring me all the stuff to be repaired, modified or reengineered.........even though I didn't have a degree. I could open the box up, take one look, know exactly what it was for, and what it would do. I could figure out what was wrong, and if I had the parts, effect the repairs or modifications......all without any kind of schematics at all. And in only a few hours.

Meanwhile, the other people who held BSs were busy tearing their hair out and blowing things up.

Why? Why because I was trained in the military......at a young age.......with more hands on training that any of those college kids could hope to have.

Just because you have a piece of paper that says you went to school doesn't mean you were taught or trained correctly, or in a way that allows you to be able to do a job right away. Any of those college dudes with their degrees walk into my ship and try to maintain or repair my radar would have been lost the moment they walked in the door.

In order to know the system......they would have needed to train for it.

Oh gee.....that's what the military did already using me. A young 18 year old me, while my brain was still a sponge.

Originally posted by eriktheawful
After rereading through many of your posts, and especially those you have recently made, several things have become quite clear:

1) You're from the UK, and really have NO idea how the US Military and all it's different branches work. And no, every country's military is not the same in how they treat their personnel, how they train them, and how they take care of things. I would HIGHLY recommend that you look into and study more about the US Military if you are going to address those things.

2) You are trying to turn the military into some sort of 9 to 5 business job. That's not what it is, nor will it ever be.

The military is a brother/sister hood. For some, yes, it's just a job with a paycheck. For many, it's a career that involves much, much more than just getting a check at the end of the pay period. For many it's a learning experience to better their lives. Many who enter, walk away feeling much more confident in their abilities and in themselves..

When you're in, you become part of something that can be hard to explain and for many who have never served to understand. If anyone that I knew while I was in the Navy needed help, there's not one thing I wouldn't do to try and help them.
And it extends after that: you end up wanting to help any that served like you, even if you never knew them while you were in.

Try getting John Doe who works for (some big corporation) to feel and do the same thing.

You won't. Because all John Doe cares about is getting that paycheck, and doing anything he can to get ahead in the company, even screwing over people he works with.

3) Over all you really need to understand the military better. All branches have been the way they are for centuries. You're asking them to break tradition and things that have been upheld for centuries. In some cases more than 1,000 years.

You're trying to turn it into a exclusive company, where only certain people are allow so they can earn a paycheck at a 9 to 5 type job, and get our government to spend even more than the almost 900 BILLION dollars it spends each year already.

Not going to happen.

Even the BBB would be screaming bloody murder over it and filing many law suits about it (oh, and the ACLU too).

This thread is not about the US military or any other military in particular.

A few points.
1. Nothing wrong with brotherhood or sisterhood in a military. I agree in that aspect. But only as Long as everyone doesn't get too emotionally attached to each other. Otherwise things start to break down. And I tell you that in personal experience. You should always help anyone regardless of whether you served with them or not.

2. John Doe's brotherhood towards other soldiers is irrelevant. If he ever wishes to join he would have to attain to the same rules as any other service member.

3. Times change. Besides I'm not asking any military to change. I'm just saying how I would run things.

4. Not interested in turning anything into an exclusive company.

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by Jepic

 

If you had done any study about the US military: you'd know we already do that with crews on subs.

And your OP is about requiring people who wish to enter the military to have an offspring to keep their "blood line" going.

Not on how the military is run. Not on how it does operations.

BTW - I knew more than ANY 4 year degree student about advanced electronics at 19 after my schools. I could run circles around them.

By the time I left the Navy, the first place I went to work for, would bring me all the stuff to be repaired, modified or reengineered.........even though I didn't have a degree. I could open the box up, take one look, know exactly what it was for, and what it would do. I could figure out what was wrong, and if I had the parts, effect the repairs or modifications......all without any kind of schematics at all. And in only a few hours.

Meanwhile, the other people who held BSs were busy tearing their hair out and blowing things up.

Why? Why because I was trained in the military......at a young age.......with more hands on training that any of those college kids could hope to have.

Just because you have a piece of paper that says you went to school doesn't mean you were taught or trained correctly, or in a way that allows you to be able to do a job right away. Any of those college dudes with their degrees walk into my ship and try to maintain or repair my radar would have been lost the moment they walked in the door.

In order to know the system......they would have needed to train for it.

Oh gee.....that's what the military did already using me. A young 18 year old me, while my brain was still a sponge.

Good for you. But again this is not about how the US military runs things.
What you learned in the military, you could have learned in a university if they opened up a field called military mechanics for example. Easy does it.

Click here for more information.

the whole concept of warfare and armies is so counter-evolutionary, so self-destructive and so damn stupid that the only rule i would apply to anyone wishing to join the military forces would be - 'you can't'.