Are some punishments of hell on earth?

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

I read your post and you have compiled many different aspects of the subject in a manner in which they all rest on each other while they grasp for truth confusing the reader and steering them to a non biblical answer.

It seems that most of your argument is based on a lack of faith that the holy spirit was not with the ones that translated the bible. The words in the bible are there for a reason and that is to lay two paths for us to find the proper gate. One gate is narrow and one is wide.

There is a big difference in being non biblical and twisting the bible.

edit on 6-5-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

If you subscribe to Eternal Torment or Eternal Annihilation, I can see that you would be confused by my argument. I do not think what I say is non-Biblical, given what I have learned about the changes in translation and meanings of the original Hebrew and Greek words. Cognitive dissonance is a problem, but you must push past it. Yes, the Holy Spirit was with some (not all) of the translators, but like any of us, they labored under the theology of their day, and translated according to what they knew and believed. In this sense, "non-Biblical" and "twisting the Bible" may be in the mind of the critic.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Eternal torment? I don't see any reason why GOD would forever waste his time punishing a lost cause once he has lost hope in turning one to him. There are plenty believers that have suffered long enough while he has given chance after chance. It is pretty clear to me that in just over a thousand years that time will come. Until that time the ones that live outside of the kingdom being set up will continue to be tormented and die.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Eternal torment? I don't see any reason why GOD would forever waste his time punishing a lost cause once he has lost hope in turning one to him. There are plenty believers that have suffered long enough while he has given chance after chance. It is pretty clear to me that in just over a thousand years that time will come. Until that time the ones that live outside of the kingdom being set up will continue to be tormented and die.

edit on 6-5-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

This is one thing that I never really understood about the religious view of heaven and hell. Punishment. Why should people who are truly good but still sin, according to the bible, be punished? I, myself, am one of these people and this is why I cannot accept christianity. Because I know that I am a good person but I do sin, a lot. But it's such basic sins that, in my mind, there would be no reason for me to be "punished" for it.

reply to post by qualm91


There is heaven and hell because we are all born into sin and are ability to control it determines are spiritual stature. You do not have to accept Christianity but you do have to accept Jesus to get outta here if that is your path. You just don't want to go against the only salvation here because you can be pulled down just as you can can ascend. The rules and boundaries of this world were set up long ago.

reply to post by deadeyedick


But what is to say what "pulls us down"? I am a recovering drug addict, I am also a bisexual. I have struggled with both of these things my entire life. I came to terms with the bisexuality before the drug abuse. I openly admitted to my bisexuality when I was 16 years old, and I embraced it. I got sober only about a year ago now. Does that pull me down? The fact that I am a drug addict and like sleeping with other women?

Because I am also a good person. I help others, I pick up litter from the side of the rode if I drive by it because the destruction of this planet disgusts me, I give to charities, I do not pass judgement on anyone because I know that it is not my place. But, will I still go to hell?

I don't believe that God is just and I believe that if there is a God, he should not be obeyed. I've studied the bible through-and-through, and God honestly sounds like Hitler. With his "chosen people" and his "obey me and I'll pardon you of your sins and reward you, but if not I will punish you" mentality. Jesus, on the other hand, was simply a man. And he was a man who's lessons could teach us a great deal, if we follow them correctly.

But, because I don't specifically think that God should be obeyed, that would be enough to send me to hell, good person or not. Why is that? I am only asking your opinion because after reading your posts, I like the way you think, and I would like to hear what you think of this question.

Originally posted by qualm91

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Eternal torment? I don't see any reason why GOD would forever waste his time punishing a lost cause once he has lost hope in turning one to him. There are plenty believers that have suffered long enough while he has given chance after chance. It is pretty clear to me that in just over a thousand years that time will come. Until that time the ones that live outside of the kingdom being set up will continue to be tormented and die.

edit on 6-5-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

This is one thing that I never really understood about the religious view of heaven and hell. Punishment. Why should people who are truly good but still sin, according to the bible, be punished? I, myself, am one of these people and this is why I cannot accept christianity. Because I know that I am a good person but I do sin, a lot. But it's such basic sins that, in my mind, there would be no reason for me to be "punished" for it.

The Eternal Torment and/or Eternal Annihilation doctrines have turned many, many people away from the True Gospel, the Gospel [Good News] of Forgiveness and Reconciliation. Man's way is to punish, and to get even, down to the last penny. God's Way is to forgive, to correct, to bring the lost sinner back into fellowship by way of reconciliation. Man, through his greed and hatred, cannot imagine a God sending His Own Son to die in our place - Christians accept it, but most do not fully understand it. Punishment is corrective and temporary, not vindictive and eternal, and is given to purify those who need to be purified. It is not even punishment as man conceives of punishment. EVERYONE will come into the Kingdom, even those who go into the Lake of Fire, otherwise God can never become ALL in all.

Originally posted by qualm91

But, will I still go to hell?

No!

First, Hell does not exist. Almost all, if not all, words translated "Hell" really refer to "the grave" if we bother to look at the original Hebrew and Greek.

Second, when you die, you do the creation of Adam in reverse:

dead body + breath of life = Adam, a living soul

you, me, everybody (living souls) - breath of life = a dead body

So, when you die, you/soul goes "poof!" [ceases to exist]
your breath/spirit returns to God who gave it
your body returns to the dust it was made from.

That leaves NOTHING to be relegated to Hell! Got that?!

The way to the Kingdom lies on a path which includes death, a dirt nap, and resurrection. Even if you do not make the glorious first resurrection, God has a plan "B" for you.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by qualm91

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Eternal torment? I don't see any reason why GOD would forever waste his time punishing a lost cause once he has lost hope in turning one to him. There are plenty believers that have suffered long enough while he has given chance after chance. It is pretty clear to me that in just over a thousand years that time will come. Until that time the ones that live outside of the kingdom being set up will continue to be tormented and die.

edit on 6-5-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

This is one thing that I never really understood about the religious view of heaven and hell. Punishment. Why should people who are truly good but still sin, according to the bible, be punished? I, myself, am one of these people and this is why I cannot accept christianity. Because I know that I am a good person but I do sin, a lot. But it's such basic sins that, in my mind, there would be no reason for me to be "punished" for it.

The Eternal Torment and/or Eternal Annihilation doctrines have turned many, many people away from the True Gospel, the Gospel [Good News] of Forgiveness and Reconciliation. Man's way is to punish, and to get even, down to the last penny. God's Way is to forgive, to correct, to bring the lost sinner back into fellowship by way of reconciliation. Man, through his greed and hatred, cannot imagine a God sending His Own Son to die in our place - Christians accept it, but most do not fully understand it. Punishment is corrective and temporary, not vindictive and eternal, and is given to purify those who need to be purified. It is not even punishment as man conceives of punishment. EVERYONE will come into the Kingdom, even those who go into the Lake of Fire, otherwise God can never become ALL in all.

"Punishment is corrective and temporary, not vindictive and eternal." I love that. I really enjoyed your responses.

But, because I don't specifically think that God should be obeyed, that would be enough to send me to hell, good person or not. Why is that? I am only asking your opinion because after reading your posts, I like the way you think, and I would like to hear what you think of this question.

reply to post by qualm91


I have dealt with many of the same problems in my life as you have in yours. It is when we don't turn away from sin that it drags us down. If your perception and display of affection or lack there of for GOD gets in the way of others struggling then that could be a problem.


Look at Christians sinning and repenting like a set of fine clothes. Do they not need to be laundered after wearing them? Those fine linens would get mighty grungy and unappealing after a while of not washing. The human body is spiritually similar in that sin changes our aurora and needs to be renewed.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by qualm91

But, will I still go to hell?

No!

First, Hell does not exist. Almost all, if not all, words translated "Hell" really refer to "the grave" if we bother to look at the original Hebrew and Greek.

Second, when you die, you do the creation of Adam in reverse:

dead body + breath of life = Adam, a living soul

you, me, everybody (living souls) - breath of life = a dead body

So, when you die, you/soul goes [ceases to exist]
your breath/spirit returns to God who gave it
your body returns to the dust it was made from.

That leaves NOTHING to be relegated to Hell! Got that?!

The way to the Kingdom lies on a path which includes death, a dirt nap, and resurrection. Even if you do not make the glorious first resurrection, God has a plan "B" for you.

I am making a prediction that you will come to regret these beliefs that your soul dies and even if it did not there is nothing GOD could do to change your mind even if he was real. I have faith that you will maybe be shown what you need to see in order for you to know. I have already seen but can not show you and words are not my strong suit so it's up to you.

reply to post by deadeyedick


And God is the only one that can wash our laundry? Why can't we wash it ourselves? I understand that my drug abuse was a sin that I brought upon myself. I was born with an addictive personality and was addicted to plenty of things before I even knew what drugs were, they were just the one addiction that stuck around for so long, because I myself chose for it to be that way. Drugs were my "hell on earth", a test that I believe was sent to me for a reason, although by whom, I may never know. But my bisexuality? Something that I literally cannot help? I felt so ashamed when I was a little girl because I had a crush on Jasmine instead of Aladdin. You can't tell me that a child as young as I was CHOSE to be attracted to the princess instead of the prince. But God says that I am a sinner because of this. The way I look at it, why should I want to cleanse myself of something that is, in fact, me? If God can accept me for me, then I will accept God for being God. Until that happens, I'm afraid I will be set in my ways. Until someone convinces me otherwise. And I am open to being convinced, if the argument is strong enough.

reply to post by deadeyedick


But the soul is, most certainly, eternal. Our bodies may die, but our souls will never cease to exist. This, I am sure of.

I was born with an addictive personality

reply to post by qualm91

Drugs were my "hell on earth"

Let's say that both statements are true. Don't you think that GOD could shape you that way and that maybe all the things we like to sin with are not the problem because most things are not that bad for you in moderation. Now imagine your life with the knowledge you have now minus the addictive urge to ultimately harm yourself over and over.

I'm just saying that life will be way cooler without being drug down by a negative force everyday.

But the soul is, most certainly, eternal. Our bodies may die, but our souls will never cease to exist. This, I am sure of.

I agree but the one who creates a soul can destroy a soul. Not that it will be done though. There is always a choice for everyone.

Originally posted by deadeyedick

I am making a prediction that you will come to regret these beliefs that your soul dies and even if it did not there is nothing GOD could do to change your mind even if he was real. I have faith that you will maybe be shown what you need to see in order for you to know. I have already seen but can not show you and words are not my strong suit so it's up to you.

Deadeyedick, I was raised in a Baptist home and church, which included Hell. Later, I joined the Seventh-Day Adventist church, which taught Eternal Annihilation. Only when I found the concept of Universal Reconciliation did I see God as One Who loved His creation, and had a plan to save it to the uttermost. Do you really think (if you do) that God would send His Son to die a horrible death for our sakes, and then cast most of us into Hell for eternity? Eternal punishment for temporal sins is not consistent with the law of God, especially the Jubilee Law, which specifies that every person in slavery/bondage/debt go free when the Jubilee is proclaimed. That Law is an Earthly reflection of a Heavenly spiritual truth - that we go free of our debt of sin at a specified time. That time is after our dirt nap, or at the Second Coming for those still alive.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by deadeyedick

I am making a prediction that you will come to regret these beliefs that your soul dies and even if it did not there is nothing GOD could do to change your mind even if he was real. I have faith that you will maybe be shown what you need to see in order for you to know. I have already seen but can not show you and words are not my strong suit so it's up to you.

Deadeyedick, I was raised in a Baptist home and church, which included Hell. Later, I joined the Seventh-Day Adventist church, which taught Eternal Annihilation. Only when I found the concept of Universal Reconciliation did I see God as One Who loved His creation, and had a plan to save it to the uttermost. Do you really think (if you do) that God would send His Son to die a horrible death for our sakes, and then cast most of us into Hell for eternity? Eternal punishment for temporal sins is not consistent with the law of God, especially the Jubilee Law, which specifies that every person in slavery/bondage/debt go free when the Jubilee is proclaimed. That Law is an Earthly reflection of a Heavenly spiritual truth - that we go free of our debt of sin at a specified time. That time is after our dirt nap, or at the Second Coming for those still alive.

I ask this question because I am simply curious of how you two view it (since we seem to be the only three people in this discussion)...Do you believe that there are unpardonable sins? Sins that simply cannot be forgiven and may warrant eternal punishment?

reply to post by qualm91


My best guess failure to comply. Givin that everything is a choice and we are given life after life to accept GOD. Yes there will probably be a small few that never stop serving satan and will perish with him after another thousand years. That's where free will comes in and without it earth would not be such a popular place among the cosmos.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


As i said before i do not see GOD wasting eternity punishing anyone. That does not mean hell on earth and punishment in a lake of fire are not possible from the creator of all things especially when we have so much evidence of punishment from our creator. We are here to learn and grow and i appreciate your input here.

reply to post by deadeyedick


I reply to this with another question because you used the name "Satan. You obviously believe in God, so I may be falling on deaf ears right now, but I am still wondering if this question has ever crossed your mind while seeking God. I know it has crossed mine. If God is going to reward his followers, would Satan not reward his, too? Maybe in a different way, maybe he will reward them in the way of their sin. For example: a chronic nympho will end up surrounded by other nymphos, or a drug addict would end up in a room full of a perpetual supply of drugs. I only wondered this because God and Satan are obviously a sort of rivalry, so maybe God is simply trying to vilify Satan to the most extreme sense so that he can convert Satan's followers. I'm not saying this is so, and I am certainly not a Satanist, it is just a question that I have wondered silently to myself while studying faith.

reply to post by deadeyedick


And thank you. I joined this site because I enjoy discussions of this type. I think bashing someone for their opinion is useless, rude, and ignorant. I am simply curious of others views and how they pertain to mine. I appreciate your input, as well.

reply to post by qualm91


I can't really say that I believe in much of anything except that the Judaic faiths are full of crap, but what you have just posted there is a general frame of thought that I keep coming back to. It fits in with a lot of general themes I keep seeing in the world, the universe, and in the passage of time. I've noticed that there's a handful of vague yet crucial laws this reality is bound by, laws that are so subtle as to almost completely fly below the radar, and the same general concept you've shared falls right in with those laws.

This book did make me question, though, I wonder if all souls in the entire world were made simply once, and have been being recycled over, and over, and over again. Or if new souls are being made and sent to Earth? It's a question to think about.

Have you by any chance read The Egg story? You should, if you haven't already. Marvelous little anecdote.