North Dakota trying to outlaw most abortions

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


Not all botched abortions are home made. I know someone here who survived one and she's on the Pro Life side. I guess some people are just Progressive and some are conservative.

Originally posted by GreenGlassDoor
Right, so if Dakota wants to extend legal coverage to the point of conception the problem is..?

Or is there some magic number that one can expect legal coverage and to transition from nonhuman to human?

The bigger issue here is a State is doing exactly what they should. The majority vote people into office, those voted into office pass legislation in the interest of the majority. In case if you don’t it move to another State, but when the feds pass legislation there nowhere to go. Agree or disagree this is how it should be done.

Reply to post by RalagaNarHallas

Ah yes, the infallible Supreme Court. I'm sure Mr. Dredd Scott can lecture on that more than I. Coincidently, he too was simultaneously protected and unprotected by the law.

Supreme Court cases aren't laws. They only rule on the interpretation of the law. So, again, what laws and do you understand how federalism works?

No. I am not trying to change your mind as I stated before, I don't care. I just want consistent laws. Feel free to go through my entire post history to find my abortion position.

However, your beloved Norma McCorvey (aka Jane Roe) would try to change your mind. She is now a pro-life activist.


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reply to post by RalagaNarHallas

why do people think they have the right to tell other people what to do with their bodies?

Because regardless of your emotional ideas, a fetus is a live baby human and just because it cannot survive outside the womb does not make it less human, and when there is a live human baby, it no longer is just a matter of what a woman does to her own body. A strange dichotomy it is when a person can get convicted of murder if he/she kills a pregnant woman who wanted her child, but if a woman does not want her child suddenly it becomes not murder....

where is the logic?

If one is pregnant, one has to eat properly to nourish the developing baby....if one smokes, the smoke affects the baby, if one does crack while pregnant... yes one is affecting the unborn child. How could you or anyone say it is your right to starve the unborn child because it is "your" body?

Where are all the collectivists who say that it is our duty to save everybody else in the world? They are busy passing stupid laws telling us we can't have Big Gulps.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

If one is pregnant, one has to eat properly to nourish the developing baby....if one smokes, the smoke affects the baby, if one does crack while pregnant... yes one is affecting the unborn child. How could you or anyone say it is your right to starve the unborn child because it is "your" body?

Where are all the collectivists who say that it is our duty to save everybody else in the world? They are busy passing stupid laws telling us we can't have Big Gulps.

How is this scenario...

A woman heavily smoking while pregnant walks past a group of women who give her distain looks to what she might be doing to her unborn. The group of women stops her and one of them says “shouldn’t you be thinking of the baby?” The pregnant woman looks at them and says “no worries I’m aborting it next week”. The group of women all smile and say “ Oh, that’s nice”.

a fetus is a live baby human

No it isn't, that's the point. They don't even develop a heart or brain for the first two months, and those don't even work until later.

This kind of stuff is where the right looses me. Good fiscal policy and ideas on limited governance... Yet too hung up on legislating morality.

This is no better than the left trying to legislate what one eats, buys, makes or sells....

Personally - if it is a religious thing then leave it for god to sort out.

Why worry about what other people are doing? The right wants government out of people's business except when it comes to the most imitate of human interactions. Then they feel the need to intercede.

While the left could care less if one aborts the # out of a million babies but is fine with allowing a woman to choose to have 13 kids by 10 different men while the taxpayers foot the bills because we shouldn’t infringe her right to reproduce.

Both sides are ignoring the obvious solution. Keep government out of the business of underwriting the poor choices of individuals. If a woman wants to kill her unborn child let her for right leaner’s that should be a win really, aborted babies cost nothing and are never a burden to society. Likewise the left should either agree that a woman has a right to abort a child also has a responsibility to support it if she doesn't.

No government restrictions on one side and no government assistance on the other - win, win.

Let people be free to make their own choices and suffer through the consequences. If it is wholly a woman’s choice to carry a child to term then it’s her problem how she will pay for it.

Reply to post by CB328

Which part? It isn't alive or it isn't human?


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reply to post by Golf66


And one day you will know that killing a fetus is murder.....

The whole world is embracing infantacide - murder - is there any worse crime against God and man?

No - there isn't.

And one day you will know that.

Reply to post by Golf66

Who wants to legislate morality? Can morality be legislated?

Has anybody actually said they want to ban abortions because abortions are immoral?

The flaw in your argument is the flaw in the law. If a woman opts to keep the baby she can go after the father for child support. But the father can't demand she get an abortion or waive his paternal rights (let's call this a "man abortion") and walk away scott-free, nor can the father keep the woman from having an abortion to accept custody after birth. So to say she can't go on assistance also include daddyfare?


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Originally posted by Happy1
And one day you will know that killing a fetus is murder.....

]

I have requested it be done in my youth because I was unprepared for parenthood financially or in maturity. I have delivered a child in a combat zone. I was present at the birth of my own child. I know what a fetus is and what it is not.

If my wife were to become pregnant again (we are mid 40's) We'd have every high risk test for defects allowed and if the "child” had some issue that would make his/her life hell we (wife and I discussed it) won't be carrying it to term. We can’t deal with it. Don’t have to deal with it nor do we want to watch our offspring suffer.

As for death and killing in 24 years of being a Special Forces NCO and latter Officer; I've seen my share, done my share of that using all kinds of methods. I know what that is too. Men in pain have begged me to end it for them. Enemy and compatriot alike – I have granted that wish in a few cases.

I suppose if there is a higher power (I am agnostic not atheist) I know I will be judged - hopefully the good will outweigh the bad. I do what I think is right by my code.

Originally posted by Happy1
The whole world is embracing infantacide - murder - is there any worse crime against God and man?

Yes, in my opinion there is. A life sentence of pain, confusion, suffering and hardship with no escape that could have been humanly prevented in the womb. I run a dairy operation in my retirement - I cull the weak from the heard for the benefit of it as a whole. I have been to some literal crap whole nations into which parents who evidently didn’t get the memo on how babies are made procreate in the middle of a war zone and in times of severe drought and famine. Ultimate selfish act right there – they know the result of their 3-4 second euphoria at climax will suffer a lifetime of emptiness, starvation and loss. If I could I’d Norplant them all for the next 15 years. Pure savages who procreate in those conditions.

Originally posted by Happy1
No - there isn't.

If you think being carried to term by a parent (I doubt parents) who is poor, lazy, and selfish is some kind of life I feel for you. These kids become liabilities to society just like their parents were in most cases. A kid knows when it is an unwanted burden (trust me) and it affects their ability to succeed - low self esteem, intellect drive etc. Doomed from the get go. They tend to act out for attention and get into run in's with the law becoming frequent guests at jails and prisons. Females will likely repeat the same cycle with their own offspring starting early and often.

Originally posted by Happy1
And one day you will know that.

Murder is for spite, anger, or personal gain. Euthanasia is for the benefit of the deceased to spare them undue hardship or suffering. You can call it what you want I'll do the same.

Cheers.

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Until you can sit through some education and pictures and video of an abortion and 'see'with your own eyes, the whole human form sucked out through the vacuum tubes or cut out of the womb to die in a bucket you are all hypocrites.

But if you have seen them and still think the millions of babies killed every year in the name of 'rights' is ok then your not a hypocrite...just a very sick person.


...and if your mother had the same choices now, you might not be here!

edit on 19-3-2013 by pacifier2012 because: (no reason given)

i guess it's ok if they do it on a kitchen table with a steak knife...you know, like they used to do it before ROE v WADE, bleeding to death, womb all slashed and chopped up...don't like the way that sounds? that's the way it truly was. and the woman who will die if she doesn't have an abortion?? oh well, she dies, cut out the fetus... we'll save your fetus because we are religous psycopaths and death is your punishment.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Golf66

 

And one day you will know that killing a fetus is murder.....

The whole world is embracing infantacide - murder - is there any worse crime against God and man?

No - there isn't.

And one day you will know that.

no, i won't ....it's a womans body and she has control over it, and NOT some mythical being or you...what are you the taliban?, a witch burner? some religous 14th century psychopath? what next? the murdering of sinners like they did during the dark ages?....move to a muslim country, you'll feel more comfortable there, they still believe in murdering people for disobeying god.

What's the big deal?

You can still have your abortion just not the abortion you may want.

To use a common gun-grabbing response.

Nobody needs an "assault" abortion anyway.

I will be glad when they come out with a pill to keep women from getting pregnant so this issue will go away. Maybe some sort of implant might even work.