Very simple question

Originally posted by Bacardi
Why should I put my faith in an abrahamic religion? For tens of thousands of years humanity has worshiped everything from cave drawings to pagan and Greek gods. I want to know why exactly, these NEW religions take precedence when they're nothing but a bunch of ancient scriptures munched together?

Hear me out okay? I feel like I'm a 16 year old and my dad just showed up. He says, son I'm your father. And my response would be, okay, well where were you my entire life? He says, shut up, I'm your dad. Do you respect his man? Of course not. So why not, after tens of thousands of years of this God not being there, and letting humanity worship any god(s) it wants, do we sit down and worship?

It makes no sense to me.

Someone told you that you 'should'?

Spiritual development requires higher thought...childish notions of the veracity of certain cosmologies must at some stage give way to 'keener' images...otherwise they remain the childish notions of a childish mind (undeveloped by degrees)...
The 'abrahamic religion' describes the bottom corner of a facet of a jewel, that is polished only on this facet...the jewel remains unrevealed beneath the dross of misinterpretation and intellectual (or what passes for it) hysteria...

...and while the hysteria, of its own 'steam', is cute enough...it promotes its own warped reality on countless childish minds, who deem it necessary to inflict this hysteria on others...'should'?

The message is plain enough, without the obsessional reliance on games based on chinese whispers...the 'truth' of modern day (happening now) events, are shady enough...imagine the stories that could be generated over the period of time covered by a book which has been added to - not one iota - since who knows who wrote it...all we have been left with are the chinese whispers, that are a mangled collection of 'Little Golden Book' stories...

We are not lost, abandoned or forgotten...we're left to our own devices, to naturally gravitate to the higher truths as the ideas are knocked around...questioning is the sign of a higher mind...stay to your course, there is bound to be land that you recognise...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


nothing GRAVITATES(a downward motion) HIGHER(an upward motion).

Follow Jesus or burn in hell... yet Jesus didn't show up until 2000 years ago? What happened to everyone else born before Jesus? All sent to hell to burn? The problem I have with abrahmic religion is the same problem most people would have if a new religion started today... where was this God before? And if it was just that, I could possibly see past it, but these stories are all just rehashed and crammed together from earlier stories hundreds to thousands of years before Christianity.

Originally posted by ChesterJohn
reply to post by akushla99

 

nothing GRAVITATES(a downward motion) HIGHER(an upward motion).

edit on 6-3-2013 by ChesterJohn because: IGHER

...up...down...left...right...
Spatial location...

...'downward', in relation to...
...'upward', in relation to...

'Thought gravitating', is a well used expression...

A99

Originally posted by ChesterJohn
reply to post by akushla99

 

nothing GRAVITATES(a downward motion) HIGHER(an upward motion).

edit on 6-3-2013 by ChesterJohn because: IGHER

Gravitate as in to be attracted to or tend to move toward.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by SpiritofEnoch

 

Is God omniscient? If so, then our lives and futures are perfectly predetermined and known. Therefore, no free-will, or God is not omniscient.

Nonetheless, a little study on free-will shows that we do not know whether we possess it or not.

The answer to your question..no....why because this answer Man does not have free will if there is a God.. and there is a God.A completely sovereign God that needs ZERO help or input from his creation..This is Gods universe and everything is being run PERFECTLY according to plan.Religion has a purpose .It makes infertile soil(adamah... Adam..... MAN) fertile so The Seed can grow to a good tree and produce fruit....Religion is all a pile of fertilizer.That is all it is good for.Don't eat it though..unless you like the taste of it.It won't matter one bit what you choose to do.If you need fertilizer you will be buried nose deep in it.

Originally posted by Rex282

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by SpiritofEnoch

 

Is God omniscient? If so, then our lives and futures are perfectly predetermined and known. Therefore, no free-will, or God is not omniscient.

Nonetheless, a little study on free-will shows that we do not know whether we possess it or not.

The answer to your question..no....why because this answer Man does not have free will if there is a God.. and there is a God.A completely sovereign God that needs ZERO help or input from his creation..This is Gods universe and everything is being run PERFECTLY according to plan.Religion has a purpose .It makes infertile soil(adamah... Adam..... MAN) fertile so The Seed can grow to a good tree and produce fruit....Religion is all a pile of fertilizer.That is all it is good for.Don't eat it though..unless you like the taste of it.It won't matter one bit what you choose to do.If you need fertilizer you will be buried nose deep in it.

We perfectly predetermine our own lives, because this one you are living is just a fixer-upper to your past one; always applying the bandaid without suturing the wound. Look at John Mill's treatise regarding human free will "On Liberty", it might change your mind. Regarding that elephant in the room 'Religion', Karl Marx called it "The Opiate of the Masses", oxyconton, demerol, vicodan, oxymorons, and the demented have taken over the asylum.

it is interesting ,if not amusing to read to read the replies that you have or will get for this question...and to sum up the writers of the replies ..they dont have a clue either..or do any of us for that matter...an eternal creator does leave some of us out in the cold..some of us would say.."do you expect me to beleive that this eternal being has existed for ever on a spiritual plane that we neither understand or even comphrend"..i might answer that it is probably no more unbelieveable than millions of people running to and fro on planet on the outer edge of the milky way...sound really stupid and unbelievable...unfortunately it is true...how many others are there ?..who knows...is the eternal creator real...please dont tell me that all the proof is in the Bible..and dont tell me you know the answer....what are we anyway and where are we going........nobody and nowhere...........

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Rex282

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by SpiritofEnoch

 

Is God omniscient? If so, then our lives and futures are perfectly predetermined and known. Therefore, no free-will, or God is not omniscient.

Nonetheless, a little study on free-will shows that we do not know whether we possess it or not.

The answer to your question..no....why because this answer Man does not have free will if there is a God.. and there is a God.A completely sovereign God that needs ZERO help or input from his creation..This is Gods universe and everything is being run PERFECTLY according to plan.Religion has a purpose .It makes infertile soil(adamah... Adam..... MAN) fertile so The Seed can grow to a good tree and produce fruit....Religion is all a pile of fertilizer.That is all it is good for.Don't eat it though..unless you like the taste of it.It won't matter one bit what you choose to do.If you need fertilizer you will be buried nose deep in it.

We perfectly predetermine our own lives, because this one you are living is just a fixer-upper to your past one; always applying the bandaid without suturing the wound. Look at John Mill's treatise regarding human free will "On Liberty", it might change your mind. Regarding that elephant in the room 'Religion', Karl Marx called it "The Opiate of the Masses", oxyconton, demerol, vicodan, oxymorons, and the demented have taken over the asylum.

edit on 7-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

if you have FREE will then try this experiment.Will something you desire the most and see if happens.It will be a miracle if it does.If EVERYTHING you will doesn't happen that should be a HUGE clue to how free it is.The fact is most folks confuse choosing with will.That is the act of the will.We make billions of choices in a life and NONE of them are free of causation.Yes we can Freely will or choose something but the effect was not free of cause outside of our will.If it was there would be zero reason to revisit your life and "fix it" in complete ignorance and lack of control.

I don't need to read anyones book.... I can understand it very clearly by experience.Karls "statement" was correct... it is an opiate.......it is also fertilizer.... only good for one thing... and it stinks like #...free will is about as helpful and true as religion.Take another blue pill.

Originally posted by Rex282

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Rex282

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by SpiritofEnoch

 

Is God omniscient? If so, then our lives and futures are perfectly predetermined and known. Therefore, no free-will, or God is not omniscient.

Nonetheless, a little study on free-will shows that we do not know whether we possess it or not.

The answer to your question..no....why because this answer Man does not have free will if there is a God.. and there is a God.A completely sovereign God that needs ZERO help or input from his creation..This is Gods universe and everything is being run PERFECTLY according to plan.Religion has a purpose .It makes infertile soil(adamah... Adam..... MAN) fertile so The Seed can grow to a good tree and produce fruit....Religion is all a pile of fertilizer.That is all it is good for.Don't eat it though..unless you like the taste of it.It won't matter one bit what you choose to do.If you need fertilizer you will be buried nose deep in it.

We perfectly predetermine our own lives, because this one you are living is just a fixer-upper to your past one; always applying the bandaid without suturing the wound. Look at John Mill's treatise regarding human free will "On Liberty", it might change your mind. Regarding that elephant in the room 'Religion', Karl Marx called it "The Opiate of the Masses", oxyconton, demerol, vicodan, oxymorons, and the demented have taken over the asylum.

edit on 7-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

if you have FREE will then try this experiment.Will something you desire the most and see if happens.It will be a miracle if it does.If EVERYTHING you will doesn't happen that should be a HUGE clue to how free it is.The fact is most folks confuse choosing with will.That is the act of the will.We make billions of choices in a life and NONE of them are free of causation.Yes we can Freely will or choose something but the effect was not free of cause outside of our will.If it was there would be zero reason to revisit your life and "fix it" in complete ignorance and lack of control.

I don't need to read anyones book.... I can understand it very clearly by experience.Karls "statement" was correct... it is an opiate.......it is also fertilizer.... only good for one thing... and it stinks like #...free will is about as helpful and true as religion.Take another blue pill.

"The truth is saying what IS, IS...and what ISN'T, ISN'T"

You are living the 'Experiment'...and being that memory has become, for some units, a short term prospect...you forget 'your will'...the results of which are played out for you to see for yourself...and others...

You don't need to 'read' anyones' book...you are your own narrative...the hero, the protagonist, the devil, the saviour...all you need is keen observation and the acumen to disentangle the consequences of your own will, in relation to others' will...and the way it all interacts...

...ditch FREE WILL, ask stupid questions, create ridiculous scenarios...and you will NOT understand at all...but will continue to fulfill the mechanisms of FREE WILL, as they operate...whether you 'choose' to believe it or not...

A99

Originally posted by Rex282
if you have FREE will then try this experiment.Will something you desire the most and see if happens.It will be a miracle if it does.If EVERYTHING you will doesn't happen that should be a HUGE clue to how free it is.The fact is most folks confuse choosing with will.That is the act of the will.We make billions of choices in a life and NONE of them are free of causation.Yes we can Freely will or choose something but the effect was not free of cause outside of our will.If it was there would be zero reason to revisit your life and "fix it" in complete ignorance and lack of control.

I don't need to read anyones book.... I can understand it very clearly by experience.Karls "statement" was correct... it is an opiate.......it is also fertilizer.... only good for one thing... and it stinks like #...free will is about as helpful and true as religion.Take another blue pill.

You had better starting writing one, because everyone else has a game plan as well, and you WILL be living their 'free will' book instead of your own as a victim. The karma drama; a way for you to continue to make mistakes and overcome them; becoming a more aware being. Frustrating does not come close to describing it, include the clue 'special' words "Love is the Law, Love Under Will" Thelemic Law and everything seems to fly out of the window. Why does everything have to be so hidden, so mysterious; and the 'Bible' helps only in defining moral principle, written for what minority in 300AD? 6 out of 10 were illiterate up until the 15th century.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


"You had better starting writing one, because everyone else has a game plan as well, and you WILL be living their 'free will' book instead of your own as a victim. The karma drama; a way for you to continue to make mistakes and overcome them; becoming a more aware being. Frustrating does not come close to describing it, include the clue 'special' words "Love is the Law, Love Under Will" Thelemic Law and everything seems to fly out of the window. Why does everything have to be so hidden, so mysterious; and the 'Bible' helps only in defining moral principle, written for what minority in 300AD? 6 out of 10 were illiterate up until the 15th century." VHB quote...

Precisement...

...and the prevailing thought of 'non-FREE WILLers', will (amongst the cacophany of will), fulfill that FREE WILL...prompting them to look outside themselves for scapegoats for thier own 'chosen' (but forgotten) predicament...until such a time as, children with childish ideas grow up and take responsibility...

A99

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
.......

You had better starting writing one, because everyone else has a game plan as well, and you WILL be living their 'free will' book instead of your own as a victim. The karma drama; a way for you to continue to make mistakes and overcome them; becoming a more aware being. Frustrating does not come close to describing it, include the clue 'special' words "Love is the Law, Love Under Will" Thelemic Law and everything seems to fly out of the window. Why does everything have to be so hidden, so mysterious; and the 'Bible' helps only in defining moral principle, written for what minority in 300AD? 6 out of 10 were illiterate up until the 15th century.

edit on 8-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

This has nothing to do what I was talking about.I don't need to write a book or read one about Free will" it is very obvious we don't have free will.No ones "non free will' or "false game plan" is impugning on my non free will.I am not a victim of nothing nor am I frustrated in the least.The greatest commandment(will of God)..love ... is not a mystery even though the majority can't live it.It's all part of the growth process.None can no more make their cells multiply by free will than change the orbit of the sun.Its disillusionment.We can't lift ourselves up by our own bootstraps it's a futile effort that only leads to frustration and more delusion or meglomania.We are not God and there is a creator God in control of EVERYTHING ..completely whether anyone believes that or not.

All the vain philosophies.pyschology and religion and double talk about nothing will not cause free will or improvement in anyone... it is ALL vanity of vanity.Being woke up is the only step forward.No one can wake themselves up from the dead and be "improved " by self awareness.Dead man see nothing.This is the valley of the shadow of death...complete unawareness of reality.It is like observer the insides of an atom (which in comparison is as large as a universe) in the dark ...and thinking ALL the universe is just this atom.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.This is impossible to believe unless it is unveiled...and then it mostly brings comfort.I can't "change" myself or anyone else.It is ALL being done to us.There is not one thing that will change by anything I do of my will because..it isn't free.The book is written it is already complete we are only experiencing in time/space.That is the most hated reality NONE want to believe (including me at one time).They will be dragged kicking and screaming into reality waving their bibles and crystals and vain philosophy,psychology and science books trying to prove THEY are in control of life when all of life says the opposite.If man had free will there would be no earth no one would get along with anyone else every free will would clash with the other 7 billion looks would literally kill.It would be mass chaos...I've accepted that the majority will think they have free will and live in delusion.It is impossible to foist that imperative falsity on me.It isn't true and will never be true.It only looks good on paper .

Originally posted by Rex282
.......
The greatest commandment(will of God)..love ... is not a mystery even though the majority can't live it.It's all part of the growth process.None can no more make their cells multiply by free will than change the orbit of the sun.Its disillusionment.We can't lift ourselves up by our own bootstraps it's a futile effort that only leads to frustration and more delusion or meglomania.We are not God and there is a creator God in control of EVERYTHING ..completely whether anyone believes that or not.

Oh but "love" is a great mystery. It is one of the misdiagnosed forces in the universe having no thing to do with anything but ENERGY FORM; it was unfortunately called that by some bumpkin equating it with a human emotion; WRONG. So I take it you are living under a bridge in Washington state dreaming of becoming the next Kurt Cobain sacrifical victim; delusionary; once fame achieved-blow your face off. This is odd thinking.

rex282

All the vain philosophies.pyschology and religion and double talk about nothing will not cause free will or improvement in anyone... it is ALL vanity of vanity.Being woke up is the only step forward.No one can wake themselves up from the dead and be "improved " by self awareness.Dead man see nothing.This is the valley of the shadow of death...complete unawareness of reality.It is like observer the insides of an atom (which in comparison is as large as a universe) in the dark ...and thinking ALL the universe is just this atom.

Vain philosophies are not continuously being republished as they must by being have merit in some great quarter to an audience that escapes you. Entire universes do exist in an area as small as an atom. There is no such thing as a Dead man, only the casing of such, the body; spirit moves on.

rex282

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.This is impossible to believe unless it is unveiled...and then it mostly brings comfort.I can't "change" myself or anyone else.It is ALL being done to us.There is not one thing that will change by anything I do of my will because..it isn't free.The book is written it is already complete we are only experiencing in time/space.That is the most hated reality NONE want to believe (including me at one time).They will be dragged kicking and screaming into reality waving their bibles and crystals and vain philosophy,psychology and science books trying to prove THEY are in control of life when all of life says the opposite.If man had free will there would be no earth no one would get along with anyone else every free will would clash with the other 7 billion looks would literally kill.It would be mass chaos...I've accepted that the majority will think they have free will and live in delusion.It is impossible to foist that imperative falsity on me.It isn't true and will never be true.It only looks good on paper .

I have no arguement with this statement. YOU WROTE THE BOOK; AS YOU ARE LIVING IT, OWN IT AS YOUR PERCEPTION OF YOURSELF AND HOW/WHY YOU DECIDED TO PRESENT YOUR BEING TO THE WORLD IN THIS MOST SORROW FILLED (for me an interpreted hopelessness) MANNER.

reply to post by Bacardi


christopher hitchens asked the very same question without being part of any one religious group. His writings are well worth reading. He also only based his statements on facts, not on only one ancient book.

reply to post by Rex282


"I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.This is impossible to believe unless it is unveiled...and then it mostly brings comfort.I can't "change" myself or anyone else.It is ALL being done to us.There is not one thing that will change by anything I do of my will because..it isn't free.The book is written it is already complete we are only experiencing in time/space.That is the most hated reality NONE want to believe (including me at one time).They will be dragged kicking and screaming into reality waving their bibles and crystals and vain philosophy,psychology and science books trying to prove THEY are in control of life when all of life says the opposite.If man had free will there would be no earth no one would get along with anyone else every free will would clash with the other 7 billion looks would literally kill.It would be mass chaos...I've accepted that the majority will think they have free will and live in delusion.It is impossible to foist that imperative falsity on me.It isn't true and will never be true.It only looks good on paper ." Quote Rex282

What is true of this sermon, is that, despite the unmitigated determination (as in, determinants)...it displays the hallmarks of FREE WILL, in operando...

Any other scenario (and the camps are limited), fulfill the precept of FREE WILL, in thier determinant rant...a rant that could not occur without the robot being unhitched from its controller...point missed...ignored (sign of FREE WILL), oppose (and one wonders how this occurs without FREE WILL)...etc...

Hard thinking to be done here...

A99

Originally posted by akushla99
reply to post by Rex282

 

What is true of this sermon, is that, despite the unmitigated determination (as in, determinants)...it displays the hallmarks of FREE WILL, in operando...

Any other scenario (and the camps are limited), fulfill the precept of FREE WILL, in thier determinant rant...a rant that could not occur without the robot being unhitched from its controller...point missed...ignored (sign of FREE WILL), oppose (and one wonders how this occurs without FREE WILL)...etc...

Hard thinking to be done here...

A99

Rex282 does not know this; what I see as an expression of free will, maybe he sees it as flailing blindly at windmills, not recognising this as a form of obvious self determinism "I at least recognise myself existing". Having to think hard is hard.

reply to post by Bacardi

. . . after tens of thousands of years of this God not being there, and letting humanity worship any god(s) it wants, do we sit down and worship?

It makes no sense to me.

Me either.
My "new religion" is brought to me by Jesus, who was acting as one human being to another, that true worship is recognizing the value of every person we meet.