Native American Confronts Protesters on Illegal Immigration

I sympathize with every culture that has suffered persecution and violence at the hands of another. My own culture has been through it, actually in the same time frame as the Native Americans up until the 20th century. We were lucky enough to persevere, but not before we bounced back and forth between our enemies.

Now to the realities of present U.S. of A. If you value the way this country has functioned for at least the last 50 years, if you value the existence of most of its' laws and if you want to continue to live in relative safety thanks to those laws, you are going to have to reconsider how you feel about illegal immigration and what you want to do about it. If you want to keep order inside these borders, you will have to enforce certain laws and create new laws to accommodate those who want to come here peacefully. Our current immigration laws are not perfect by any standard and they need to be reformed, but to continue to guilt trip those who had nothing to do with what happened 500 or even 100 years ago is truly pointless. For those who were born in this country, they're as guilty for what happened to Native Americans as Native Americans are guilty for what happened to the tribes their tribes conquered over territory.

So let us move on and let us concentrate on the facts that actually have influence over our futures. Bringing up the Native American massacres to argue a point is as useful as bringing up the Spanish inquisition. What do you want anyone to do about it? You want to open up borders and let anyone regardless of their intentions into this country? You want everyone to move off this continent and go back to tribal living? You want everyone here to live according to Native American customs...good or bad?

You don't have to forget what happened, you don't have to keep silent about it if it serves an educational purpose and keeps it from happening again, but please realize that there is nothing anyone can do to reverse what happened. Just because it happened doesn't mean that we should abandon all laws out of guilt. They are in place for a reason. Just like tribes would have had men securing the perimeter of the settlement, we now have borders and border guards to keep enemies from entering. Sometimes this keeps good people out as well, and for that reason we need to reform immigration laws to make it easier for good people to come here without having to jump the border.

reply to post by 2manyquestions



Your post makes a great deal of sense, and I agree that we need immigration reform, and in a matter that involves some common sense. Immigration laws in this country are a joke as they are written. I have a friend who married a foreign national with a green card, his efforts to bring her three daughters, 8,11, & 14, while successful, have cost him something in the neighborhood of $40,000. Another friend who is a small business owner, recently married a lady from Pakistan, and he has spent about $45,000, and his wife has yet to join him in the USA. There is no reason that multiple attorneys need to be involved in a simple immigration case.

Concerning your comments about quoting past history, I believe in this post, they have been used to try and educate, as a great deal of ignorance has been shown in this thread. I do not believe that we should ever let an educational opportunity pass us by.

While not feeling any guilt over historical acts, yes I am a white man, I feel that the actual truth does need to be taught and explained. In fact the above mentioned Merriwhether Lewis is an ancestor, and the story told is one I am not familiar with, need to do some research on that one.

To the red indian apologists to my post, I only plead that they seek for the truth, OBJECTIVELY, on who and what the red indians truly were in the past.

There is no need to romantised history if we mankind are to ever hope for progess and evolve as a race.

I had never called for the whitewashing of american settlers atrocities, but neither will I condone the loud vocal minority's BS whitewashing of the barbarism of the red indian tribes living in the huge landmass of america, in a world that had evolved beyond the jungle and jungle laws back then.

Continue with the romantic fantasizes of the Last Mohicans, and see where you will get in our world today. The Sioux, Pawnees, Cherokees tribes, etc, would have wipe themselves out if not for the intervention of Rule of Law english and spanish settlers.

No doubt they brought diseases, but it is only a matter of time before it came to the american shores of which the warring tribes could not have prevented by other ethnic groups.

No doubt the early settlers were rapacious and greed played a part, but then, neither were the indian chiefs free of any guilt of greed.

All I ask is that each member be honest. It is only a simple request.

As for new immigrants, there will be needful further discussions with honest insights on how to accomodate them. Illegal means is not the way, for it only deprives those whom were sincere and have integrity to follow the rule of law way legally their chance to be an american citizen.

America is a resource rich and intelligent country, and can welcome and accomodate 3 times its current population if wise economic policies are adopted.

Unfortunately, such wisdom is not ready, as at least 20% remains in or under the poverty line, eating up valuable resources that the 80% had voluntarily shared, as most americans are egalitarian and big hearted by nature, for they are descendants of forefathers whom had suffered before and will not wish the same upon anyone in the world.

If those illegal comes in, with no means to sustain themselves, they will add to the 20% poor and will never have a chance to live the american dream. Earning $20 a day as a wetback will not help you to live, let alone to love and build up a family, more so when inflation had risen and skillsets often at the edge of what education can provide. The only course left for them will be criminality to survive, which only leads to deeper social problems for all.

Originally posted by jheated5
Lets play out this liberal yahoo pc bs that these native americans were a peaceful people and the white man is bad bad! Guess what there were people here before the native americans and they aren't alive to tell their tale because they were snuffed out leaving no survivors, the native americans had war with each other and were just as destructive as ANY man is.... The fact of the matter is, our superior might has displaced the people who were here, just like their military might wiped out the people before them and so it goes..........

I cannot see how there were many Indians in the U.S at the time anyway. It is very difficult to survive winters in most of the U.S. and considering world populations really exploded after the 1900's. Before that people could die from a tooth ache.

Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site (pron.: /kəˈhoʊkiə/) is located on the site of an ancient Native American city (c. 600–1400 CE) situated directly across the Mississippi River from modern St. Louis, Missouri. This historic park lies in Southern Illinois between East St. Louis and Collinsville.[2] The park, operated by the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency, is quite large, covering 2,200 acres (890 ha), or about 3.5 square miles, and containing about 80 mounds, but the ancient city was actually much larger. In its heyday, Cahokia covered about 6 square miles and included about 120 man-made earthen mounds in a wide range of sizes, shapes, and functions.[3] Cahokia was the largest and most influential urban settlement in the Mississippian culture which developed advanced societies across much of what is now the Southeastern United States, beginning more than 500 years before European contact.[4] Cahokia's population at its peak in the 1200s was as large as, or larger than, any European city of that time, and its ancient population would not be surpassed by any city in the United States until about the year 1800. Today, Cahokia Mounds is considered the largest and most complex archaeological site north of the great Pre-Columbian cities in Mexico.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by BubbaJoe


The ancient indians no doubt have a proud heritage and may lay claim to large tracts of lands or monuments, BUT, at the end of the day, what happened?

Civilisations throughout the course of history had been consistant with rise and falls. If they had been as strong and capable as their heritage proved, where are they now in the course of our current civilisation?

Truth is, sadly, they failed to progress and evolved, and would have disappeared into the sands of history, if not for the Rule of Law that civilised nations with better values such as Universal Human Rights, progressing since the 17th century, never failing that acknowledge errors over time, had helped the remnants be alive today. to remember their heritage, but NEVER to revive that failed civilisation, for by its failure to its own people, had rot and disappeared, which is a proven flaw to not be repeated as we mankind build up new civilisation with better ideals around us all so that the next generations may survive to progress and evolve.

Rome, China, India, etc - great civilisations once, had equally failed. We this current new civilisation, must not fail, espacially by harkening to a long past failed era, but to learn from it to help this current one to evolve and progress.

Originally posted by Juggernog
Cant watch the video right now but I can comment on the title.
The Indians werent part of a sovereign nation with borders, they were made up of several warring factions, spread across the Americas. The US is a sovereign nation, with borders and we should be allowed to secure our borders.
Sucks what happened to these guys but its happened all throughout history by many other nations besides the US.
A dominate people with a dominate army discover a land thats inhabited by a weaker people with a weaker army and this happened over 100 years ago by people that are long dead.

there was peace between the tribes when the europeans got here and just took over...

look at rome, they took over their zone...

its the white man mentality of taking over, it's weird...

i do not know why the white man was so evil, while other civilizations were minding their own business, was no need to travel the world and steal resources.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

The ancient indians no doubt have a proud heritage and may lay claim to large tracts of lands or monuments, BUT, at the end of the day, what happened?

Civilisations throughout the course of history had been consistant with rise and falls. If they had been as strong and capable as their heritage proved, where are they now in the course of our current civilisation?

Truth is, sadly, they failed to progress and evolved, and would have disappeared into the sands of history, if not for the Rule of Law that civilised nations with better values such as Universal Human Rights, progressing since the 17th century, never failing that acknowledge errors over time, had helped the remnants be alive today. to remember their heritage, but NEVER to revive that failed civilisation, for by its failure to its own people, had rot and disappeared, which is a proven flaw to not be repeated as we mankind build up new civilisation with better ideals around us all so that the next generations may survive to progress and evolve.

Rome, China, India, etc - great civilisations once, had equally failed. We this current new civilisation, must not fail, espacially by harkening to a long past failed era, but to learn from it to help this current one to evolve and progress.

edit on 5-2-2013 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

Of the civilizations that you mention, how many do we celebrate their fall, by honoring the one who infected them with diseases that wiped out 80-90% of them? So basically you are saying, is that the few who are alive today should get down and kiss our behinds for allowing them to live, on land that they once owned? You do not seek the truth, but continue to perpetuate schoolboy fantasies of the almighty white man, ignoring most if not all contributions to civilization by other cultures. I choose to come to this site to deny ignorance, not perpetuate it.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


your most unusual attempts at flowery prose do nothing to hide your lack of understanding of the cultures you talk about, you really need to research the matter a great deal more, poor effort

My.... Native americans sure have problem remembering that they originally came from other countries as well and were not natives really. Both the settlers and indians were tit for tat at each other as well. So where does he get off on talking like that? All of them are hypocrits.

Originally posted by yuppa
My.... Native americans sure have problem remembering that they originally came from other countries as well and were not natives really. Both the settlers and indians were tit for tat at each other as well. So where does he get off on talking like that? All of them are hypocrits.

Native Americans were the first people to colonize the americas....hence their name "Native Americans"

Get it?

Originally posted by 11235813213455
Grandpappy used to have a saying....

If they wanted to keep it then they should have fought harder.

Yes, I suppose they should have known that small pox was in those blankets.

Originally posted by yuppa
My.... Native americans sure have problem remembering that they originally came from other countries as well and were not natives really. Both the settlers and indians were tit for tat at each other as well. So where does he get off on talking like that? All of them are hypocrits.

They do, but the Natives were here many many years before anyone else came. It was not as if they all showed up at the same time and it was tit for tat. The Natives were here so long that there are sacred places in this country where their creation stories began.

Originally posted by cornucopia

Originally posted by Juggernog
Cant watch the video right now but I can comment on the title.
The Indians werent part of a sovereign nation with borders, they were made up of several warring factions, spread across the Americas. The US is a sovereign nation, with borders and we should be allowed to secure our borders.
Sucks what happened to these guys but its happened all throughout history by many other nations besides the US.
A dominate people with a dominate army discover a land thats inhabited by a weaker people with a weaker army and this happened over 100 years ago by people that are long dead.

there was peace between the tribes when the europeans got here and just took over...

look at rome, they took over their zone...

its the white man mentality of taking over, it's weird...

i do not know why the white man was so evil, while other civilizations were minding their own business, was no need to travel the world and steal resources.

History repeats itself. Not much has changed. There are still evil people in power, trying to take everything for themselves.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Wow. Just wow.

They should never have had to 'defend' their right to the very land they had lived on for centuries. For the most part, they welcomed the newcomers and it ended up biting them in the face. And NO, they wouldn't have ended up killing each other off. They had lived in relative peace, separated by large distances, for those same centuries. The Seneca Nation's way of governance was adopted by the Continental Congress and became the basis of our Constitution. These were a good and peaceful people who were willing to be good neighbors until they were inundated by too many fools with guns. There were many tales of atrocities on both sides, and many of them were propaganda to make both sides scared of each other. Fear begets more fear which begets violence.

To another poster who said that the plains Bison were killed off by the white men for sport, that's inaccurate. The bison were ordered killed en masse by the Army Generals in charge (it may have been under Presidential order, I'm not sure) in order to kill the way of life and the food supply of the plains Indians. It was insanity and full blown genocide writ large. Once the bison were gone, the remaining Plains Indians were pushed farther and farther west onto land that not even a gopher could survive on.

He says, "We shoulda put up that sign when you son of a bitches came!"

I spit up my drink.

The man has a point. The descendants of immigrants protesting against other immigrants is highly ironic.

When the government takes away your rights to privacy,due process,and to own a firearm I hope there is someone who tells you "If you wanted to keep them you should have fought harder'"

The irony in the video is that a lot of those protesters are probably of an ethnic background that was once not wanted in this country.Even though their ancestors might have come here legally,and some probably came here illegally, there was a time when they weren`t wanted here.At one time or another every ethnic group that immigrated to america was persecuted because the people who were already here didn`t want more of that particular ethnic group in america.
so even though these other ethnic groups were coming here legally there were people protesting and persecuting them.
If their ancestors were kept out of america,like alot of people wanted to do, then these protestors wouldn`t even be here to protest against letting other ethnic groups into the country.

I know they claim that they are just protesting against illegal immigrants but I don`t believe that,I believe they are protesting against a certain ethnic group of immigrants both illegal ones and legal ones.

I think there will be a day when there is no such thing as illegal immigration, we will all just be citizens of the world and will be able to live where we want when we want.
Just as we now look back and think how ignorant people were in the past by persecuting and protesting allowing certain ethnic groups into america, one day people will look back at how ignorant these people are who are protesting now.
people need to start thinking for themselves and stop jumping onto the "it`s illegal" bandwagon.a lot of things are technically illegal but that doesn`t make it right.legal doen`t always mean right just as illegal doesn`t always mean wrong.

reply to post by VariableConstant


I have absolutely no business in this thread, but I'll get involved anyway.

There is a difference between "immigrants" and "conquerors."

In one case, the original population is gradually displaced by a passive enemy, the original population can see this happening and are upset about it. The result is protests and angry signs. Occasionally, it can also result in angry posts on message boards too.

In the other case, the original population is killed and oppressed by the invading population and any attempt at fighting back will be met with annihilation.

The native americans didn't hold up signs like that against British settlers because they would have been shot. Some of them fought back, yes, and look how that turned out. In this case, Americans can hold up those signs without fear of being shot, so they do.

He was right. The European invaders raped, murdered, and stole land that was not theirs. They painted the Natives as uncivilized beasts when THEY were the uncivilized violent ones.

reply to post by Taissa


Is there a universal rule somewhere that if you are the first somewhere it belongs to you?

We planted our flag on the moon quite awhile ago so does that mean the moon belongs to Americans?