Constant meditation.... for two hours.

reply to post by ImaFungi


I meant to reply that to itisnowagain. Maybe I shouldn't mean to focus my thoughts on anybody. Uh?

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Konoyaro

 

There is no purpose in this meditation, the mind is made to think. It would be usefull if in the not thinking state one is able to make whatever thought pop up he wished to think about.

Don't be dead, not?

what do you think of buddhist monks who literally meditate for 9 hours or more a day? Also with little reason to think thoughts id think, because its not like they watch tv or have aspirations other then to meditate all day... It would be interesting to know the imagination or thoughts of monks that are like 50 years old who meditate 9 or more hours a day.. I wonder if an occasional boob or two pops in there

reply to post by ImaFungi


I think I understand what Itsnowagain means when saying "I is just a thought".

Think about it. Thoughts are arising, there are eyes which seeing, ears which are hearing, a body which is moving...

and then we think "I see" instead of "the ears are seeing", or we think "my body..." instead of "the body"...


When people say "I" they refer to the body, or the mind. They believe themselves to be the body or the thoughts/emotions, and sometimes even both. Sometimes people even believe themselves to be past-actions combined with what they BELIEVE will be the future...

But if 'you' are the thought/emotion, then what is the silence that the thought/emotion is arising in? Aren't 'you' aware of your own thoughts and emotions? Then how can you just be the mind?

Aren't you aware of the body? Then how can you be the body?

If you are aware of it, it is not the FULL and COMPLETE you. You are AWARE OF the body and the thought and the emotion, so none of this stuff is the FULL "you". The full you would be the 'you' that is being aware of the body, thought,and emotion...

reply to post by Angle


But the thing is we think all the time, judging, interpreting if we are distracted by those we are unable to truly experience the "now" which can only truly be observed in non-judgmental/interpreting state. I would say the purpose of it is happiness and bliss which exist naturally when we desire nothing, ignorance is bliss they say, meditation is essentially a state of complete ignorance but also complete awareness. It's at strange thing, very peaceful and healing.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

I think I understand what Itsnowagain means when saying "I is just a thought".

Think about it. Thoughts are arising, there are eyes which seeing, ears which are hearing, a body which is moving...

and then we think "I see" instead of "the ears are seeing", or we think "my body..." instead of "the body"...


When people say "I" they refer to the body, or the mind. They believe themselves to be the body or the thoughts/emotions, and sometimes even both. Sometimes people even believe themselves to be past-actions combined with what they BELIEVE will be the future...

But if 'you' are the thought/emotion, then what is the silence that the thought/emotion is arising in? Aren't 'you' aware of your own thoughts and emotions? Then how can you just be the mind?

Aren't you aware of the body? Then how can you be the body?

If you are aware of it, it is not the FULL and COMPLETE you. You are AWARE OF the body and the thought and the emotion, so none of this stuff is the FULL "you". The full you would be the 'you' that is being aware of the body, thought,and emotion...

um... I didnt say I wasnt aware of my body or mind... Im saying the word 'I', refers to my body,mind, my thoughts.. my abilities, my feelings.. it is the totality of my existence ( see i used my... which relates to I)...
Im sure at some point today 'itsnowagain' will move his arm... maybe he will eat something.... does he and you( well you guys arent yourselves right...) think that someone else does those things for you? This is a philosophical questioning of the nature of free will, what you two are bringing up... you were born.. you dont have a choice but to eat or you will die, so your nature is forcing you to eat... but, you can sit in the corner and die.. so who is it that does not sit in the corner and die.. what is the will, that causes you to mix items in a pattern and order to make a meal and eat,, is this not a choice you are making? did you not think that you would like the food you are preparing?

reply to post by Angle


Well if you combine the two types you get wonderful results, which I'm sure most monks do as well. First enter the not-thought state were you shed your judgments and be there for a while, then we the moment is right approach a subject or topic which warrants your interest. This will give you a very clear mindset were you start with zero thought and proceed on to one thought. It's a matter of concentration, if you can "concentrate" on nothing you can probably approach "something" with greater care.

reply to post by ImaFungi


You still didn't answer the question. You said "I" refer to "the totality of MY being" such as "my body" , "my thoughts" but no where did you actually identify an "I".

Let me ask again...

Who/what is this "I" that is in possession of thoughts, emotions, and the body?

If you say "MY consciousness" then who is this "I" that possesses consciousness?

reply to post by arpgme


I think the I is just subjective interpretation of past events plus infinte potential for random thought which can be related to past events for furter subjective interpretation topped of with random properties which modify this subjective experience, your brain makeup and so on. So maybe not so much I possess consciousness as consciousness possess I.

I have been doing a few hours a day since I started a couple of months ago. My understanding is that you are trying to cultivate moment to moment awareness. Whether that be with your breathing or sensations in the body or the awareness of thoughts being thoughts, the way in which sounds are just sounds. It's impossible to ignore thoughts, but you can hold them in awareness and realise that they are just "thoughts" that come and go.

Take breathing. We all know how to breathe, but are we aware of the breath on a moment to moment basis. The idea with thought, is that you do not let one thought go on to create a worse thought, you hold the original thought in awareness until you move back to concentrating on your breath or other moment to moment sensation.

reply to post by ImaFungi


Yeah, when at the age of fifty, that's the only reason they're meditating for. They constantly scream in fear: "no boobs, no boobs!! WAaah"


... 9 hours a day. Can you see them talking about it. "Ehm, and you?"
"Oh, me, again.. a whole day, waaaah"

I think just experimenting with meditation is okay. There is intent to meditate and eventually you will fall into. I think it is not difficult.

I mean, what can one do wrong? Right?

Still, I wonder, there are munks who have a peculiar meditation in which they have obtained a method to levitate and whatever astonishing things.


reply to post by arpgme


starred.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


If you're doing pure non-thought meditation you shouldn't have to "ignore" thoughts or the goal is not having to ignore any until you are done, when you ignore you are actively thinking. But you can keep them from arising at all for a while and the more you practice the longer you can suppress active thought. Suppress is not the right word though, it's just non-thought and as with anything else the more you practice the better you get.
Breathing is not something you have to be aware of as it will happen automatically in case you forget or suppress it. But it is very common to use controlled breathing when meditating, makes you fell whole and connected to the earth I think

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

You still didn't answer the question. You said "I" refer to "the totality of MY being" such as "my body" , "my thoughts" but no where did you actually identify an "I".

Let me ask again...

Who/what is this "I" that is in possession of thoughts, emotions, and the body?

If you say "MY consciousness" then who is this "I" that possesses consciousness?

edit on 5-2-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

who/what is the 'I' that is in possession of thoughts, emotions, and body? my answer... thoughts,emotions, and body.....

the possessor is the totality.. the possessor is the connections in the brain being made since birth,, along with the body used to sense the external world,, using those senses to store memories, in the brain..

9 months before "i" was born,, i was some cells... that was me... no this is me.. a bunch more cells,, even different ones... but I depend on a lot of the parts of my body and mind to exist as myself.... I can cut an arm off an still be me and live... a car can lose a door and still be a car and drive... remove my brain from my body, or my heart, or a few other things.. and I will no longer be able to be the me that i now am...because the system that is my body will no longer be able to acquire the energy needed to keep the system functioning..

reply to post by ImaFungi


What I currently think the I is: Is that it is a collection or database of experiences (past events, birth and so on) which consciousness filters through which creates your subjective experience and interpretation. I believe consciousness is the same for everyone but interpreted differently depending on what you have experienced in the past.

Daily practice: look at your life as a science, and take out 3 lower frequency activities or addictions or habits, be they anger, swearwords, drinking or drinking at a certain time, maybe not tea granny yet.

Add 3 high frequency activities such as meditation, giving to others, finding an outlet for altruism, walks in nature, rainbow foods, laughter and joy.

Give as much you can, of your time, patience, thoughts and prayers for others, and whatever you can. Give the other wins in arguments, find your center and find ways to nudge not win.

Close eyes, lying down best for total relaxation. And be the observer. Observe where your consciousness is. I use a cloth or blind. Observe that you are not in your feet, your legs, not in your aura. But there is an infinity within oddly enough. Not time to explore unless you do so, for your only observing. Floating consciousness, staying with you. When frequency flutters come from within not without, you may drift 'highter lighter" frequency, there may be another you or plain to reach. There is a place within, that is lighter frequency, that is Peace and Love, that is fast and quick thinking, that is health and wellness, that has no pain, and there you can only observe, or ask a few questions, or ask for forgiveness, or healing. But the longer you stay in yourself there, and bring that infinite potential here into your life, the more the world will be healed and all in it.

The other part though, about not being in your legs or aura, well, had the veil lift while doing this, and as I was observing consciousness, inside my head, where it is, suddenly I was everywhere, up/down, in every direction, without end, inner/outer, like fractals in all directions. So the inner/outer is illusion, but observation is a key.

reply to post by ImaFungi


So the answer is this:

The "I" that is the possessor of thoughts, emotions, and the body is the thoughts, emotions, and the body itself. If this is the case then there is no "possessor" (I) as self-possession as self is not considered possession. Possession is what happens when one entity/force controls another entity/force, not when an entity is controlling itself.

If the thoughts, emotions, and the body is self-possessed (which is not possession at all) then there is no room for "I" (a possessor).

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

So the answer is this:

The "I" that is the possessor of thoughts, emotions, and the body is the thoughts, emotions, and the body itself. If this is the case then there is no "possessor" (I) as self-possession as self is not considered possession. Possession is what happens when one entity/force controls another entity/force, not when an entity is controlling itself.

If the thoughts, emotions, and the body is self-possessed (which is not possession at all) then there is no room for "I" (a possessor).

that was a mish mash of word games, i wouldnt even know where to jump in. so I will offer my own mish mash back. you are making this so hard because you want to feel a certain way about things... the way I attempted to describe my stance is quite simple...

I control myself... I am myself... I am a me.... some things about me are not controlled by the me that speaks to you now... my cell division,, my heartbeat... these are not controlled directly by me but we can see that they are controlled by me, in the way that if I do not find food,, they will no longer operate... our parents "do something"... their DNA combines, creating the genetic information that will use energy, nutrients, vitamins, minerals, proteins etc. to build the brain and body the DNA calls for... This is also coupled with the environment we are born into... and the consciousness part is quite complex.. because there is such a large amount of potential for a born human to behave and think and feel and perceive itself and its environment.... for example the child of 2 athletic parents may be very artistic.. maybe a child of two parents who are not talented at anything,, is born..and uses its mind to use information, and thoughts, and imagination, and knowledge, in a way that it is good and talented at a lot of different things...

It seems to me you really just want to attempt to prove the existence of the soul... or an I, beyond this physical body.... I am not sure one exists, im not sure one does not exist... but as far as I can tell, are the things I have been stating in my replies... I see a picture of myself when I was 2 years old.. I do not remember what I thought then, and most likely.. nothing! nothing of importance at least... and most likely i could not think as i do now, then... there are reasons i can think how i do now, and not then...it has to do with growth, memory, thoughts, information, understanding, knowledge, senses, learning...

we are complex robotic computer machines, but its still not so easy for me to go along with what you are saying about.. "possession" and "I" or "me" or "ehh"... I dont know what your getting at...

what do you think you are? do you think you are your body? do you think you have nothing to do with your body? do you think you possess your body? if so, what do you think is doing the possessing? why do you think that?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The world is a mystery and so are we, how could you ever expect it to be any other way.

Its all mystery. Even your a mystery.

Some may say that meditation should never actually cease.

Those people would suggest turning those two simple hours into a lifetime of meditation.

Interprete and speak, sense and speak or do not speak at all.