It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by NavyDoc
"High velocity" is not a technical specification of the AR-15. "High velocity" compared to what? I bet that, right now, without googling, you don't even know what the velocity of the round is.
Silly rabbit...I posted it over a week ago...Wrong on both fronts.
Bushmaster AR-15 used by Adam Lanza
Rapid fire Semi-Automatic
Ammunition: .223 Remington; 55 grain bullet @ 3240 feet per second.
Muzzle Energy: 1282 foot-pounds.
Capacity: Standard 30 round magazine, 60 or 100 Round clips available, but with a greater likelihood of jamming the higher you go.
post by Indigo5
Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by bknapple32
I don't care about statistics. It is concepts that count more. Logically, I knew before my brother got killed that gun free zones would get people killed. There happens to be statistics that agree, and some that would disagree. Statistics can be twisted, and should only be used where there is CLEAR data - you will find none on guns or gun crime.
Do you need evidence of this? I could get links on how much trouble the FBI got in for this.
Statistics always get twisted, ESPECIALLY gun crime.
Originally posted by bknapple32
Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by bknapple32
I don't care about statistics. It is concepts that count more. Logically, I knew before my brother got killed that gun free zones would get people killed. There happens to be statistics that agree, and some that would disagree. Statistics can be twisted, and should only be used where there is CLEAR data - you will find none on guns or gun crime.
Do you need evidence of this? I could get links on how much trouble the FBI got in for this.
Statistics always get twisted, ESPECIALLY gun crime.
I get that. just asking. I feel that a guard at the presidents kids school is more qualified than a parent we don't know just hanging out with a gun. Do we have to be reminded of trigger happy neighborhood watchmen from Florida?
Originally posted by NarrowGate
The thing is - they could pay for the concealed carriers on schools to get special psychiatric exams and extra trigger time. This would cost a lot of money.... see the problem is really greed.
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by Staroth
I get your point;
Only those who have enough money should be able to have armed guards at their schools.
Where you get that I'm someone with no "drive" in life I have no idea.
You don't have a clue who I am or what I've done with my life.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by NavyDoc
I've never said that the President nor his children should not have a security detail.
Great...glad to have a "thinking" debate then.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
What I have pointed out is the obvious hypocrisy of someone surrounded with armed guards supporting gun bans for other people.
He also has the Nuclear "football"...is it hypocritical that he also supports banning public access to Nuclear weapons?
Extreme example?...Hmm..OK, How about RPG launchers? Hand held anti-aircraft weapons?
The NRA is not proposing that every citizen have access to Nuclear Weapons...and the anti-gun lobby is not proposing we ban kitchen knives and large rocks.
But both should agree that there is a spectrum of death toll numbers associated with those weapons in a madmans hands.
AND somewhere on that spectrum falls the AR-15, AK-47, M-16 etc.
Where do we draw that line? Not rehtorical...I want your honest answer...what weapons do you think should be banned? And why?
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by NavyDoc
"High velocity" is not a technical specification of the AR-15. "High velocity" compared to what? I bet that, right now, without googling, you don't even know what the velocity of the round is.
Silly rabbit...I posted it over a week ago...Wrong on both fronts.
Bushmaster AR-15 used by Adam Lanza
Rapid fire Semi-Automatic
Ammunition: .223 Remington; 55 grain bullet @ 3240 feet per second.
Muzzle Energy: 1282 foot-pounds.
Capacity: Standard 30 round magazine, 60 or 100 Round clips available, but with a greater likelihood of jamming the higher you go.
post by Indigo5
Originally posted by Indigo5
I tried to google up your story on a home invasion being foiled by AK-47's? Please provide a link, lest I make the mistake of thinking it is gun-fanatic-fantasy BS?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by NarrowGate
The thing is - they could pay for the concealed carriers on schools to get special psychiatric exams and extra trigger time. This would cost a lot of money.... see the problem is really greed.
There are guns all around us everyday, and just about every place we go to, except schools....
I just can not run with the argument that all of a sudden people will go crazy at a school if we put guns there too. That seems to be the one and ONLY point that people who do not like this idea have.
Here is the real deal....People who are against guns do not want to see it successful since their own kids, heaven forbid, might see guns in a positive way and so might not have some huge negitive conitation everytime the word is mentioned like their parents do. There are 6ish States that already allow guns in schools, so it is not some kind of out of the box thinking that we do not know how it might turn out either.
I put forth a challenge to those against it to find examples of teachers or school guards that went on a crazy shooting spree in those States that have been carrying for years. The other side of this is if by chance one does go crazy at a school there are still many others in the school to stop them. As it been said over and over, people are going to murder no matter what, and they will use what ever tool they have, hell, 2000 of the 15000 or so murders per year in the US are commited by hands.
edit on 29-12-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by Indigo5
But more to the point...while handguns might be the most common weapon of choice for murder, in MASS SHOOTINGS, the Assault Rifle is indisputably the weapon of choice...
July 20, 2012 James Holmes, Aurora Colorado "Batman" shooter..., 12 dead, 58 wounded, AR-15 (S&W M&P Rifle)
Dec. 14, 2012 Adam Lanza, Sandyhook, 28 dead, AR-15
March 10, 2009 AL Michael Kenneth McLendon, using a Soviet-made SKS, a Bushmaster AR-15 10 Dead, 2 Children
The Port Arthur Massactre in Australia, 1996, 35 Dead, 23 wounded...AR-10
So do you think ARs should be banned because of their capabilites? I guess the main question would be why?
Originally posted by NarrowGate
Third, I don't see a problem with people owning AR's.
In Detroit, there was a home invasion spree where the criminals were dressing up like cops and "raiding" houses then robbing and raping even old ladys. Well, one day they got caught of guard when two people with AKs hit a couple of them.
I vote we keep assault rifles in the hands of homeowners. They already micro chip dogs, why not AR's?
Originally posted by Indigo5
I tried to google up your story on a home invasion being foiled by AK-47's? Please provide a link, lest I make the mistake of thinking it is gun-fanatic-fantasy BS?
Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Indigo5
Ahh screw it. I blame the propaganda machine (news stations).
No I will not link look it up if you want. BTW the other story, wtf do you think you can google?
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by Indigo5
I tried to google up your story on a home invasion being foiled by AK-47's? Please provide a link, lest I make the mistake of thinking it is gun-fanatic-fantasy BS?
You did? Now, I'm not calling you a liar, but this was the very first google hit on the very first page.
granitegrok.com... -stopped-with-scary-black-gun-by-a-15-year-old
Originally posted by NarrowGate
Third, I don't see a problem with people owning AR's.
In Detroit, there was a home invasion spree where the criminals were dressing up like cops and "raiding" houses then robbing and raping even old ladys. Well, one day they got caught of guard when two people with AKs hit a couple of them.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by NavyDoc
Originally posted by Indigo5
I tried to google up your story on a home invasion being foiled by AK-47's? Please provide a link, lest I make the mistake of thinking it is gun-fanatic-fantasy BS?
You did? Now, I'm not calling you a liar, but this was the very first google hit on the very first page.
granitegrok.com... -stopped-with-scary-black-gun-by-a-15-year-old
That was a BOY...who shot one of TWO UNARMED Home Invaders...in HOUSTON TEXAS...
Not Detroit...Not dressed as cops...Not raping old ladies...Not armed...Not Two guys with ARs.
This was the story I asked for a link to...Are you being ignorant? Or dishonest?
Originally posted by NarrowGate
Third, I don't see a problem with people owning AR's.
In Detroit, there was a home invasion spree where the criminals were dressing up like cops and "raiding" houses then robbing and raping even old ladys. Well, one day they got caught of guard when two people with AKs hit a couple of them.
Funny that those that complain the media is spreading BS when they simply cite statistics...seem jolly good with thier own gun-rambo-BS fictions being touted as truth.
BULLSH*&....If you can't make you case without fiction and BS then I am not interested. THAT is what you purportedly demand from the "Media"...if you can't manage honestly yourself in the discussion then you are not credible and there is no reason anyone should care about what you say.edit on 30-12-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)edit on 30-12-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)