UK is NOT America

I don't think you 'brits' (god that word just sounds like a discriminatory slur, why do you guys use it?) really understand the problem that is biting America:

The problem isn't guns. The problem is Americans.

I don't know if you noticed, but America is not the UK. The UK is not Africa, Africa is not China, China is not Korea, Korea is not Japan, Japan is not Russia, etc, etc. A gun ban works for you? Hoopdie-f'ing-doo. It doesn't mean it will work for America. Know why? We are too different countries, two different histories, and two different mindsets. When will you guys understand this?

Yes, the Dunblane massacre might have been enough for the UK as a whole to rethink their weapon laws, but America isn't a country where the citizens relinquish their laws just because of an event (a tragic one, at that. My heart goes out to the families and the victims' souls). For one, the gun problem here will never be solved If we don't fix the other crime sectors first:

Drug dealers have guns to protect their products -> The citizens 'need' guns to protect themselves from drug dealers -> Cops have guns to 'protect' the citizens with and without guns.

Another one:

Gang members have guns to kill other gang members -> The citizens 'need' guns to protect themselves from gang members -> Cops have guns to 'protect' the citizens with and without guns.

Understand now? We aren't exactly a 'safe haven' from crime. I don't own a handgun, and nor do I have a permit, but I understand why people do have one. I have a high proficiency in throwing and cqc with knives, and I can't have a gun because my eyesight is not that great. Although I'm not legally blind, it is not 20/20 vision, so it would be reckless If I were to acquire a handgun, because I wouldn't be able to protect myself very well with it. On the other hand, I am very well with knives, mostly because the weapon is larger [than a bullet], so I do carry a foldable pocket knife with me if I'm going to be out in public in somewhere I have never been for over 3/4 hours. The point is that we have guns, not only just in case our government tries something, but also because it isn't a very safe place to live, and trust me, a gun ban will do little to nothing about the illegal drug dealers and gang member who DO have guns. The only thing it will do is leave those who have no weapon proficiency other than a handgun defenseless.

Guns aren't the problem. Guns are far from the problem. The problem is society itself. It's alot easier to use a handgun than it is to throw a knife, so go ahead and ban guns -- just be prepared to instead have your eyes gouged out with a spoon or get shot by a random teenager on the street who is 'repping his city' while you whine, cry, and bleed to death for 911.

Have you gone mad?

I'm jk

reply to post by mr10k


Very, Very Good!

The problem with talking to the Brits or any other nationality is that...they will never understand the mindset we have. Can't....It's a culture thing. I do have and do carry and will use...if I need to. You are right in saying it is us.
I personally believe it is really a moral thing. I know that do not sit well with the progressive left, but 50-60 years ago, things weren't this out of hand. Europe is already lost. They will continue on the downhill....We are not far behind sad to say...

OP,

While I understand your post and agree that the British (and others for that matter) cannot apply their own situations to the US, it’s just as crass to dismiss them imo.

To start a whole thread regarding others not understanding the US dynamic is somewhat self-serving and quite hypocritical seeing as so much of US commentary seems to suggest a complete denial that anyone else plays on this earth outside of US borders.

The fact is the British used to carry firearms, there were issues, now they cannot without special licences and there are a lot less issues. Not to say there are none of course, weapons can still be held, but for specific purposes, doesn’t stop the mad ones doing mad things. Nor would it in America.

I just think that, although I understand the frustration at non US citizens feeling they can chime in, you imagine your situation to be so much different when in reality it is because you seem to be taught so little about elsewhere as to feel it all a little inconsequential. I find that just as frustrating as it might be worthwhile listening every so often rather than segregating further, we are all the same deep down after all. (Not to mention the hypocrisy of US foreign policy to believe they know best all round, although that is not to say anyone other than the actual policy makers agree with their decisions but I digress.)

Also, before creating a thread with such a title it would have been wiser to think a little, the US is not the UK of course, but the UK citizens are just as thoughtful, just as concerned, just as intelligent and just as entitled to have an opinion. Especially when all it seems that this sort of thing is becoming more and more frequent in the US it seems, it certainly isn’t getting better? Yet, the British have seen benefit from restrictions on guns. Plus, if gun restrictions would mean reduced weaponry for the Police this appears from the outside looking in as a highly desirable roll on effect as certainly the younger generation of the Police Force seem intent on abusing power much in the same way as some of the more violent criminals. That said, I don’t think guns should be denied if they do indeed contribute to the safety of US citizens and considering the understandable strength of feeling regarding the matter. But, something else needs to be considered for sure I would think. (Although is there anything more significant than your government further ripping apart your constitution to actually annoy the collective enough to put a revolution in motion? Sometimes I wonder whether TPTB actually want gun control or are actively trying to incite the public increasing the agitation levels to a point so unbearable that you all just take each other out, an incentive for the sociopathic Rulers of the Rulers to stall any Gun control I would say, and is something that appears to have been the case for decades now. Just a thought)

As for the US is not UK issue, this is made all the more erroneous for me when we consider certain facts. I know it is off-topic but the amount of people who hold now, or have held previously, positions of the highest power in the US that the Queen has seen fit to honour while they have dutifully knelt before her certainly raises eyebrows. Not to mention the fact that the IRS is a company created for and built upon a British model, is now operated according to IMF legislation, much of which is certified acceptable by the Queen prior to becoming implemented practice (what’s up with that?), and the ever nefarious, and always ignored, "British American" Company faous for such wonders as high strength cigarettes and the like. (What on earth does “British American” mean?)

For me, and I apologise for this as I know US egos are stroked from an early age, the American education system has completely bamboozled you guys into segregating yourselves from an entire world of like-minded and intelligent people from around the Western world and all while you declare love for all. The pro American, inconsequential everyone else attitude is half the problem here. US citizens seem to believe the hype far more than they are able to admit, the wool pulled back only as far as to consider the world as is inside their own one-time Republic, but not fully embracing the whole which would appear to be in the best interests of everyone.

It’s ok though, we are good people. We'll wait. Don’t leave it till it’s too late 

Originally posted by kaptabs

The fact is the British used to carry firearms, there were issues, now they cannot without special licences and there are a lot less issues. Not to say there are none of course, weapons can still be held, but for specific purposes, doesn’t stop the mad ones doing mad things. Nor would it in America.

Let me start off by saying your point is perfect for demonstrating the point I'm trying to make.

The fact is the British used to carry firearms, there were issues, now they cannot without special licences and there are a lot less issues.

Exactly. The point I'm trying to make is that this statement would not work if it was:

The fact is the Americans used to carry firearms, there were issues, now they cannot without special licences and there are a lot less issues.

Do you see it now? The second statement, while valid, is untrue. We also have to have special licenses to carry our firearms, and yet, there has been no shortage of shootings taking place across the country. The difference between the first and second statement is that one is a factual description of Britain's gun stance, while the second is an idealistic, dreamt up description of what would happen to America if a gun ban were to take place.

Like I heard someone say once: "You can't feed all dinosaurs meat."

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by mr10k

 

Very, Very Good!

The problem with talking to the Brits or any other nationality is that...they will never understand the mindset we have. Can't....It's a culture thing. I do have and do carry and will use...if I need to. You are right in saying it is us.
I personally believe it is really a moral thing. I know that do not sit well with the progressive left, but 50-60 years ago, things weren't this out of hand. Europe is already lost. They will continue on the downhill....We are not far behind sad to say...

I take your point but with with one slight alteration - i would say we in Europe are behind you, not in front. I would say the shocking and saddening regularity of mass shootings is the evidence of this.

Good luck in finding a solution - i genuinely mean that.

Originally posted by mr10k

The problem isn't guns. The problem is Americans.

Indeed, at least many of them anyway.

I don't know if you noticed, but America is not the UK. The UK is not Africa, Africa is not China, China is not Korea, Korea is not Japan, Japan is not Russia, etc, etc. A gun ban works for you? Hoopdie-f'ing-doo. It doesn't mean it will work for America. Know why? We are too different countries, two different histories, and two different mindsets. When will you guys understand this?

Now I'm sure you're really making a great point overall and yadda yadda, but I really have to say something.

Of course the UK is not Africa, Africa is a continent, made up of many different countries.
I mean kudos to you for naming so many countries, but really?




Also when will YOU understand that America will continue to have these tragedies as frequently as you do while you have all these guns?
It's not coincidence you know!

reply to post by mr10k


I completely agree with you - The Right To Bear Arms is a part of the collective American mindset and a gun ban would be impossible to police and enforce, and bearing in mind the shear volume of guns already in circulation would prove nothing but a boon for criminals etc.

But here in the UK things are quite different.
Guns are nowhere near as common or readily available and we want it to remain that way for as long as possible.
Sure gun crime exists, but nowhere to the levels that you experience in parts of the US.
Which is why the vast majortiy support our gun control laws.

What's right for one isn't necessarily right for the other.

Having been to america a few times i agree the U K is not like america

And i for one am extremely happy it's not.

I found a strange vibe when i was there, like an underlying,unspoken fear.

reply to post by marvinthemartian


Thats not a surprise. You're still mad at Bugs for blowing up Mars!

reply to post by Flavian


I'm with Yosemite sam were bugs is concerned

i hate that rrrrabit.

Why are RPG, Grenades, missile launchers, etc are illegal? Im sure they protect us too.

Surely, Thugs and bad people can get them too? why not citizens?