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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
There is no reason why someone can't use "private security" for these things, and never has been.
And since the police departments are universally harder worked you can expect more of it.
Modern slavery? That's a pretty stupid comment.
Originally posted by PsykoOps
Business idea: Start a "private law enforcement" agency that specialises in investigating and busting the "private prison businesses". Considering that the whole concept of a private prisons is discusting I'm fairly sure there would be quite alot of business to do.
Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by AGWskeptic
Just the thought of private prisons is a friggin' scary idea. The way politics are run today make it even scarier. Get one of the owners of those prisons in the right place in government and we will have a big ol' mess of trouble...if it's not already happening.
Originally posted by AGWskeptic
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
So you're ok with private prison guards doing some law enforcement outside of prison walls?
It's not a loaded question, it's a yes or no question.
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by AGWskeptic
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
So you're ok with private prison guards doing some law enforcement outside of prison walls?
It's not a loaded question, it's a yes or no question.
the 2 are not exclusive. It is still a loaded question - it starts with saying that the people are private "prison guards".
The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Ultimately, these words endeavor to protect two fundamental liberty interests - the right to privacy and freedom from arbitrary invasions.
A search occurs when an expectation of privacy that society considers reasonable is infringed by a governmental employee or by an agent of the government. Private individuals who are not acting in either capacity are exempt from the Fourth Amendment prohibitions.
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by AGWskeptic
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
So you're ok with private prison guards doing some law enforcement outside of prison walls?
It's not a loaded question, it's a yes or no question.
the 2 are not exclusive. It is still a loaded question - it starts with saying that the people are private "prison guards".
Using private security (or dogs) for a drug sweep is NOT "law enforcement".
Having them arrest or detain someone would be law enforcement, and AFAIK private security guards have the same powers as any other member of the public to detain people - I don't know what those are exactly, but in general I expect they are not very threatening, and I generally have no problem with them having the same "powers" as me.
edit on 3-12-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AGWskeptic
When did CCA become a law enforcement agency?
I'm baffled that you don't see the problem with this.
And it was a PUBLIC school, I mistyped and it won't let me change it.
Originally posted by boncho
I usually agree with most positions you have on this forum, but not this one. Yes, a private (you meant public as your next post points out) school has the right to hire an outside security agency to conduct security duties under the contract the school has entered with parents to provide a safe educational program for students. But where the lines are crossed is if the evidence collected is passed on to authorities. If the school delivers this to law enforcement, than I see this as a breech of the 4th amendment.
The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Ultimately, these words endeavor to protect two fundamental liberty interests - the right to privacy and freedom from arbitrary invasions.
A search occurs when an expectation of privacy that society considers reasonable is infringed by a governmental employee or by an agent of the government. Private individuals who are not acting in either capacity are exempt from the Fourth Amendment prohibitions.
www.law.cornell.edu...
The law treats staff and faculty members of public educational insitutions as agents of the government. Therefore, the Fourth Amendment applies to public school employees, but a less stringent standard prevails. In the context of public school searches, employees may perform a search on the condition that they have reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion requires a rationale basis upon which to believe that a student possesses contraband or has committed a crime. Hunches, rumors, or guesses do not constitute reasonable suspicion.
New Jersey v T. L. O. (1985) addresses the issue of whether a search by a school official is a "search" at all for Fourth Amendment purposes. It also considers whether the standard of probable cause that applies in the cases of criminal standards should be modified to reflect the special circumstances of public education and the relationship between school officials and students. The Court concludes that searches by school officials are governed by the Fourth Amendment, but adopts a lower standard for searches than it applies in the criminal context. Specifically, the Court only requires officials to have something like a moderate chance of finding evidence of wrongdoing. In T. L. O., the Court found that standard met.
In Safford v Redding (2009), however, the Court found that Arizona school officials went too far in strip-searching a 13-year-old student who they believed might have provided ibuprofen to another student. Given the intrusiveness of the search and the relatively low threat posed, the search was unreasonable and a violation of the Fourth Amendment, according to eight members of the Court. Justice Thomas dissented.
Later in that article you have quoted comes this (noting that your comment about a private school was a mistype on your part, and you meant public school) - public schools ARE subject to the 4th amendment
the question of whether or not school searches breach the 4th amendment is one that has vexed the legal system, however the current position is that they have a lower threshold of what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" than general criminal cases
Regarding “effects” – what about your backpack? (yes), your
ipod? (yes), your collection of comics? (yes).
In the second case, there were solid grounds for doubting Aldo’s accuracy. Two months after the first incident, the officer stopped the same driver and his truck for a traffic infraction. The officer again deployed Aldo, who again indicated drugs, but this time the officer’s search of the truck yielded no illegal substances. There is mounting evidence, as former Justice David Souter warned in dissent in a 2005 case, that the “infallible dog” is “a creature of legal fiction.” The justices have a duty to protect citizens from infringements on their constitutional rights, including by man’s best friend.
Originally posted by VforVendettea
reply to post by boncho
Our laws should be laid out as simply as the code of hammurabi of course it would need to be updated to get rid of slavery, amputations , death penalty, acknowledge womens rights, things like that.