FedEx airplane guy documents Chemtrail sprayers CLOSE CALLS

Originally posted by waynos----->Someone could get hurt because someone else believed a STUPID LIE.

The truth matters.

Yeah, with the the recent threats from chemtrailers to shoot down airliners, truth matters indeed.

reply to post by Lunchboxman


Since there is corroborating photographic evidence to support my memories, I win.

Take a look at this photo.

reply to post by prevenge


My focus will be on the first part of the video. The video is making wrong assumptions regards to the FedEx plane. The video keeps referring to a "collision" course, when in fact, that is completely wrong. At higher altitudes, vertical separations can be reduced to approximately 1000', do to increased technologies such as ADS-B (GPS based).

When the pilot speaks to AT (Air Traffic), he is calm and asks for a normal change in altitude. If the pilot really felt his aircraft was in potential danger, the radio traffic would have been much more than a calm request to change altitude.

On this part alone, the video is heavily biased to present information in a way that fits the narrative.

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

you show a real lack of concern for the lives of the pilots [and the packages].

with your [self proclaimed?] knowledge of aviation i would hope you would offer a response more along the lines of why this should not happen and list the safeguards that would be in place to prevent this many planes unannounced in a small area of airspace.

Zap was dead on. Planes typically don't announce they are near other planes, especially en-route (aircraft-to-aircraft; typically AT will inform aircraft of traffic in the area if there is any). Second, automation systems such as STARS/ARTS would have being ringing bells and whistles with CAs (conflict/collision alerts) at the center controlling traffic for that particular airspace. TCAS in both planes would have been wailing and issuing manuveuring suggestions to avoid collision.

So all the safeguards were in place and none were needed in this instance. Separation was never broken.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Lunchboxman

 

I'm going with my understanding of high bypass turbofans as to why there are more contrails and why they last longer.

i thought you said, on other threads, that there were more contrails during WW2, back when they used to use spark plugs and carburetors and s# ?

reply to post by tinhattribunal


No one has made any such claim. There are more planes now, with more efficient engines; hence, more contrails.

ok! so it's SOP for planes to fly at or alongside each other if they maintain 2ooo ft seperation.

maybe the fed-x pilot asked to change altitudes so that he did not fly into the crap they were spraying ?

another recently started thread here is talking about skunks and their stinky spray.
isn't that something you would avoid ?

the pilots obviously saw something getting sprayed, they were recording it right?


you disinformation agents absolutley lack respect for the pilots, planes, and people, of this planet !!

Originally posted by Lunchboxman
reply to post by totallackey

 

I gonna all your 52 with my dads 64. He said he had never seen such a thing his whole life.

Well, persistent contrails did in fact exist in 1963 when this book was published. The book discusses long-lasting contrails turning into clouds:




Here is a paper published in 1972 that mentions long lasting trails, and how spreading contrails create cirrus clouds:

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
(This links directly to a PDF file)

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
R.G. Knollenberg
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 29, Issue 7 (October 1972)

Excerpt:

“It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, and entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”

So persistent contrails are nothing new, and the are becoming more common due to the increase in airline travel and the new high-bypass engines that are being used.

Originally posted by waynos
And that's why we continue to argue against lies and misconceptions. Someone could get hurt because someone else believed a STUPID LIE.

The truth matters.

The truth does matter and people well may be getting hurt as they have so many times before by clandestine programs not revealed to the public until decades later, if ever, Our skies are being engineered, our weather is being heavily modified, there is enough evidence right here at ATS not to mention the entire net. No matter how much is posted some people will never figure it out. (or they have reasons not to look) Luckily many many others will and many have already. But one thing I do agree with you on, people do need to start finding ways to actually sample, it is entirely doable, I would suggest people like Carnicom and Mr. E Griffin (What in The World are They Spraying) start finding ways to either start a fund for upper air sampling or find a rich donor that will pay to start collecting the necessary air samples at altitude.

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
ok! so it's SOP for planes to fly at or alongside each other if they maintain 2ooo ft seperation.

Yep.

maybe the fed-x pilot asked to change altitudes so that he did not fly into the crap they were spraying ?

Conversely, maybe he just asked for a change in altitude, period. Do you know why pilots ask for changes in altitude?

another recently started thread here is talking about skunks and their stinky spray.
isn't that something you would avoid ?

Yep.

the pilots obviously saw something getting sprayed, they were recording it right?

They saw jet engine exhaust, nothing getting sprayed!

you disinformation agents absolutley lack respect for the pilots, planes, and people, of this planet !!

We have enough respect to identify things for what they are and not to perpetuate lies or leap to false conclusions based on empirical evidence. As such, we are not the disinfo agents.

double post.

reply to post by totallackey


dude!
there's like a dozen threads and thousands of posts by zaphrod, unicus, tammy jo, aloynious and their like minded friends showing old smoking planes from the '30's and '40's which they try to pass off proof that all chemtrails are contrails.

unicus even runs his own personal [bs] website showing the same.

they really make the chemtrail and geoenginering area of ats look like a total joke.

most members here feel bad for new members who don't get that and try to start a thread thinking they are going to communicate with other concerned and informed posters.

instead they are harrassed and usually called names by the above.

then the mods show up and run off the people as they defend them selves !

and with that , i'm otta here

reply to post by Tecumte

The truth does matter and people well may be getting hurt as they have so many times before by clandestine programs not revealed to the public until decades later, if ever, Our skies are being engineered, our weather is being heavily modified, there is enough evidence right here at ATS not to mention the entire net.

Truth always matters. You have no evidence to support our skies are being engineered, nor of the weather being "heavily modified." What you do have is the "Chicken Little," syndrome, mass media hysteria, etc.

No matter how much is posted some people will never figure it out. (or they have reasons not to look) Luckily many many others will and many have already. But one thing I do agree with you on, people do need to start finding ways to actually sample, it is entirely doable, I would suggest people like Carnicom and Mr. E Griffin (What in The World are They Spraying) start finding ways to either start a fund for upper air sampling or find a rich donor that will pay to start collecting the necessary air samples at altitude.

Does not take much "evidence." As I have stated elsewhere,Erin Brockovich will jump right on it, once any shred of evidence is demonstrated. Do not look for hucksters like Carnicorn to lead the charge...they are making too much money off of saps to burst their cash cow. That is all they care about.

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by totallackey

 

dude!
there's like a dozen threads and thousands of posts by zaphrod, unicus, tammy jo, aloynious and their like minded friends showing old smoking planes from the '30's and '40's which they try to pass off proof that all chemtrails are contrails.

unicus even runs his own personal [bs] website showing the same.

they really make the chemtrail and geoenginering area of ats look like a total joke.

most members here feel bad for new members who don't get that and try to start a thread thinking they are going to communicate with other concerned and informed posters.

instead they are harrassed and usually called names by the above.

then the mods show up and run off the people as they defend them selves !

and with that , i'm otta here

You have any evidence to back up any of this?

Originally posted by tinhattribunal
ok! so it's SOP for planes to fly at or alongside each other if they maintain 2ooo ft seperation.

In a simple understanding, yes. Think of different altitudes as "highway lanes" and depending on direction of travel, will determine what altitude levels they are to operate at.

Example:
Plane A with a heading of 90 will operate in odd thousands + 500ft. ie., 29500'
Plane B with a heading of 181 will operate in even thousands + 500ft. ie., 28500'

These two planes, at intersection will be nearly perpendicular as they cross, with a 1000' of separation. ATC systems such as ARTS, would predict any conflicts of those paths and AT would have been issuing commands to both planes on planned maneuvers to avoid any conflict of air-space, including separation and/or collisions.

The main point here is, the request to decrease altitude would not have been from the pilot if there were a potential collision, it would have been from ATC if a collision were predicted.

maybe the fed-x pilot asked to change altitudes so that he did not fly into the crap they were spraying ?

Maybe, but that is speculation. Speculation based on your belief that they are "spraying" something.

the pilots obviously saw something getting sprayed, they were recording it right?

How do you derive that it was "obvious"? The pilot made no mention at all. Pilots have a unique vantage point from the flight-deck. If you were in that spot wouldn't you be recording too?

you disinformation agents absolutley lack respect for the pilots, planes, and people, of this planet !!

People who have a different opinion doesn't make them dis-info agents. That is a cheap label used by people afraid to recognize that some of their beliefs have a plausible and logical explanation that flies in the face of their own beliefs. Even mentioning that explaining about flight-rules doesn't mean it is a lack of concern for the pilot, aircraft or the people. Don't be so dramatic.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Lunchboxman
reply to post by totallackey

 

I gonna all your 52 with my dads 64. He said he had never seen such a thing his whole life.

Well, persistent contrails did in fact exist in 1963 when this book was published. The book discusses long-lasting contrails turning into clouds:

Here is a paper published in 1972 that mentions long lasting trails, and how spreading contrails create cirrus clouds:

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
(This links directly to a PDF file)

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
R.G. Knollenberg
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 29, Issue 7 (October 1972)

Excerpt:

“It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, and entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”

So persistent contrails are nothing new, and the are becoming more common due to the increase in airline travel and the new high-bypass engines that are being used.

edit on 12/1/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

So persistent contrails are nothing new, and the are becoming more common due to the increase in airline travel and the new high-bypass engines that are being used.

That may be true in part, but it is a lie by omission, along with increased traffic we are witnessing many weather modification projects whose goal is to create various type clouds, and this can be as simple a process as burning a richer mixture on demand over any targeted areas, (carbon black, ) it can be a release of vaious types of aerosols to add to this soup, and these can be acted upon by various land ,.space and sea based ionizers and particle exciters. This seriously isn't the weather mod of 60 years ago as some would have us believe and you guys know it.. "Debunkers" try and keep this false dichotomy going between 'chemtrails' and 'cloud seeding' and 'weather mod', That's rediculous. They admit seeding 'into' a cloud but somehow creating a cloud for weather mod is a complete 'conspiracy theory' lol, c'mon guys that's childish and you give yourselves away by such sophistry. You know better.

reply to post by Tecumte

That may be true in part, but it is a lie by omission, along with increased traffic we are witnessing many weather modification projects whose goal is to create various type clouds, and this can be as simple a process as burning a richer mixture on demand over any targeted areas, (carbon black, ) it can be a release of vaious types of aerosols to add to this soup, and these can be acted upon by various land ,.space and sea based ionizers and particle exciters. This seriously isn't the weather mod of 60 years ago as some would have us believe and you guys know it.. "Debunkers" try and keep this false dichotomy going between 'chemtrails' and 'cloud seeding' and 'weather mod', That's rediculous. They admit seeding 'into' a cloud but somehow creating a cloud for weather mod is a complete 'conspiracy theory' lol, c'mon guys that's childish and you give yourselves away by such sophistry. You know better.

Do you have any solid proof our weather has changed as a result of jet contrails? Simple yes or no.

reply to post by Tecumte


Fine. There may be some form of weather modification being attempted (I wouldn't be surprised if there is weather mod research).

HOWEVER, the specific topic of this thread is the assertion that the planes in the OP video are spewing chemtrails, and are not just contrails.

One of the reasons someone gave for believing the trails are chemtrails is that they think those puffy white trails that spread out to become clouds never did that in the past (the "I don't remember trails persisting in the past" argument).

I was directly responding to the topic at hand, showing that trails DID spread out and persist 40 and 50 years ago; therefore a persisting and spreading trail COULD in fact be a contrail.

reply to post by Tecumte


What there is evidence of is the secret operations have happened in the past, this has included spraying from aircraft.

There is evidence too that geo-engineering methods have and are being studied and debated in the scientific community. That evidence, however, also clearly shows that scientists are reluctant to proceed with operations because they cannot agree on the best methods, delivery systems, or even what the outcome and side effects for each proposal are. Its all in the links posted to this forum ad nauseum.

There is also every possibility that secret programmes will and are being carried out by various governemts around the world.

That's all there. But what is it, beyond assumption, that ties all this to what we debunkers are boring you all silly with by telling you they are contrails?

reply to post by totallackey

Truth always matters. You have no evidence to support our skies are being engineered, nor of the weather being "heavily modified." What you do have is the "Chicken Little," syndrome, mass media hysteria, etc.

No unforunately truth doesn't always matter, tha's silly, that's why we have quack sites like 'quackwatch' running down the truth and shilling for the profiteers( whom I'm happy to see are becoming a target themselves by TRuthers--watch for other shill sites to follow). The first casualty in war OR Clandestine programs is to muddy the waters, send out a troop of shills into social media forums and try and steer the herd away. It's retarded, and it's not working very well. That's why we have threads now about shutting down the net, the herd can't 'handle the truth' lol.

YOu guys can say theres no evidence until you're blue in the face, not true, there is a hundred times over and it has been posted over and over and over all around the net. We'll let the readers make up their own minds, they are smart enough, so far you guys are ineffective, the truth of constant weather mod is spreading, people are waking up and it's only a matter of time until it reaches saturation. (That is if them 'terrists' that *hate our freedoms* don't just happen to come along and destroy the net)