Babylon: Is it truly America? (Long)

I will try to keep the post scripture filled and my text short because i have only just began to study this in-depth and am looking to find out what others have come up with or if anything can be refuted with the Word of God, for example, Chronologically it easy to get things mixed up.

Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Here, obviously, America is the trading nation of the world with massive sea port cities.

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Here, i believe this text, again, obviously paints a picture of America. America is the world's economic power house, and one of the most sinful nations.

Isaiah 47:5 “Sit silently, and go into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans, For you will no longer be called The queen of kingdoms.

Revelation 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

What other Nation can be called the Queen of Kingdoms? For the moment, America is the world's only super power. Also, America lives on an Island, and we believe we cannot be defeated and are untouchable. (Daughter of Chaldeans - ' New Babylon ' ).

Jeremiah 50:23
How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

Revelation 18:23
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Babylon has the power of the world in her hands. The merchants of America are the greatest men on the Earth and also the most evil.

Jeremiah 51:41
How is Sheshach taken! and how is the praise of the whole earth surprised! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations!

Jeremiah 51:41
How Sheshak has been captured, And the praise of the whole earth been seized! How Babylon has become an object of horror among the nations!

Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Who other, than America, does the world look upon? Whether good or evil has taken place, America is there. Everyone in the world either loves or hates America.

Isaiah 18:2
That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!

Isaiah 18:2
New American Standard Bible
Which sends envoys by the sea, Even in papyrus vessels on the surface of the waters. Go, swift messengers, to a nation tall and smooth, To a people feared far and wide, A powerful and oppressive nation Whose land the rivers divide.

Jeremiah 51:13
O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

Jer 50:26
Come against her from the utmost border, open her storehouses: cast her up as heaps, and destroy her utterly: let nothing of her be left.

Again, does this not represent America in conjunction with all the previous verses? America is the mightiest nation, Hated or Loved by all people, has an abundance of resources, rivers, and land.

Jeremiah 50:37
A sword is upon their horses, and upon their chariots, and upon all the mingled people who are in the midst of her; and they shall become as women: a sword is upon her treasures; and they shall be robbed.

Revelation 18:13
and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives

Jeremiah 50:16
Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.

I believe the horses could possibly mean vehicles (cars) which we are one of the top producers for vehciles in the entire world, and we are the bread basket and melting pot of the entire world.

Isa 14:13 But you said in your heart,I will ascend to heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.

Jeremiah 51:53
Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 18:1
Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:

Who other than America reaches to the stars? Who has put a man on the moon and read aloud from orbit of the moon Genesis, that the Lord saw that it was void and formless and said let there be light and saw that it was good?

Habakkuk 1:6
For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans,That fierce and impetuous people Who march throughout the earth
To seize dwelling places which are not theirs.

Habakkuk 1:7
They are dreaded and feared; Their justice and authority originate with themselves.

Habakkuk 1:8
Their horses are swifter than leopards And keener than wolves in the evening.Their horsemen come galloping, Their horsemen come from afar; They fly like an eagle swooping down to devour.

Habakkuk 1:9
All of them come for violence.Their horde of faces moves forward.They collect captives like sand.

Habakkuk 1:10
They mock at kings And rulers are a laughing matter to them.They laugh at every fortress And heap up rubble to capture it.

Is that not a direct representation of America? Nothing much needs to be said here.

Isaiah 47:13
Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

Isaiah 47:12
Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.

Jeremiah 50:11
Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls;

We have so much politics that it is becoming hard for us to govern ourselves. We experiment with the Occult continuously, with much of our government in Free Masonry and accused of being in the Illuminati as well as our intelligence agencies using psychics and Remote Viewers.

The verse also suggests the government is beginning to fail. America was also founded upon Free Masonry while the general population were Christians.

CONTINUED-----------------

Daniel 7:4
The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Ezekiel 38:13
Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Jer 51:38
They shall roar together like lions: they shall yell as lions' whelps.

Psalm 17:12
Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places.

Jeremiah 50:12
Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

The mother of America is England. The symbol for England is a Lion. The symbol for Babylon is an Eagle, America's symbol is an Eagle. Babylon has a mother, whom is a Lion. Near Babylon's end, the mother will become weakened.

Jer 51:55
Because the LORD hath spoiled Babylon, and destroyed out of her the great voice; when her waves do roar like great waters, a noise of their voice is uttered:

Isaiah 47:1
Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

America has been greatly spoiled and we believe we cannot fall. However, we are clearly told that we have faced no great threat to our existence on our own land and are virgins in the face of annihilation.

Jer 50:36
Therefore shall her young men fall in the streets, and all her men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 51:30
The mighty men of Babylon have forborn to fight, they have remained in their holds: their might hath failed; they became as women: they have burned her dwellingplaces; her bars are broken.

The Bible sees fit to mention the greatness of the young men and her (Babylon's) military machine and how they will be utterly cut off and confounded and destroyed.

reply to post by milkyway12


The bible doesn't prophetically mention America anywhere in the bible even remotely except in one place. Micah 5, the ships of Kittim. Israel is and always has been the focal point. Babylon is not what you think it is.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Then what of all the verses posted that mentioned Babylon? How great , powerful, and has a mother who is represented by a Lion and a child , an Eagle? How Babylon's men are the great men of the world, and the world gets rich from her harbors? Who else is the ' Hammer of the Earth ' ?

I need you to post scripture please as i am unsure myself, however, i am leaning toward that Babylon is representing America.

reply to post by milkyway12


Micah 5, the "Assyrian" is the Antichrist and he gets thrown back to the gates of Babylon. Babylon is 700 miles from Jerusalem, over in Iraq.

www.americaisraelprophecy.com...

Unlike what alot of christians believe (because most do not bother to even read the OT), the Antichrist does not conquer the entire world, he only gets the M.E., Jesus raises 7 nations and 8 principle men to drive him back to Babylon. The ships of Kittim have a 700+ mile range, so this tells you it's a future prophecy, because ships in those days didn't have 700 mile range, now we do.

lets get one thing straight.

America is the name of an entire continent--north, central, and south. before the european influence it was still called something similar by the Inca and the Houdenasee(Iroqoi League)

The Unites States Of America is a Corporation formed under Uniform Commercial Code for commercial reasons.
this happened in the late 1900s.

SO--the east india trading company, that bears the marks of the Viking trade ships(red and white stripes) act the same as viking/pirates--evolved into this Company you are referring to. The United States Of America (Corp)

And its all done by legal charter.

So, no. America IS NOT Babylon. the defacto Company (The United States Of America) acting as the ruling Elect in Washington DC is.

The most important detail, the whole point of the vision of Revelation ch17, is missing;
"I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus".
Unless and until America begins co-operating with the Beast in putting Christians to death for refusing to worship the Beast, which is what that chapter and the whole book is about, then America is not Babylon.

The theory that "America is Babylon", when put forward by Americans (as it sometimes is), is a kind of reverse narcissism.
America is not the first wealthy and powerful country there has been in the world, nor will it be the last.
It is the "blood of the saints" that identifies the Beast and Babylon.

reply to post by milkyway12


We are not seeing one system from America only. America is merely the military might of the three aspects of Babylon. England is the monitory aspect and Rome is the Priest. This unholy trinity is made up of Mystery Babylon. Mystery is the Mystery School of Paganism that originated with Nimrod. Nimrod was crucified and cut into pieces symbolically as Babylon was cut into many nations. Osiris is also a reflection of this symbolism. Since then, Babylon has silently worked to bring one language back together again; put Humpty Dumpty back together again; put Osiris back together again and so on. All the King's horses (tools) and all the King's men (Scientists, alchemists, mathematicians) could not put man back into his place of glory again. Why? Humpty tried to look over the wall (Veil) and had a great fall from God's grace.

When Jesus condemned the "Experts" in the law, he was speaking of those who subvert law for gain. Moneychangers are a good example. High Priests are a good example. Builders (Masons) are a good example. Christ condemned all of them. Upon entering the temple in the first century, His first act was to overturn the tables of the moneychangers and the benches of the ones selling doves. Today, as Christ enters the Temple, the moneychangers have had their financial tables (positive and negative) overturned and the ones selling peace have no rest because the money is gone. Babylon will fall before it can reach its goal. When it tries, it is finished. They WILL try. They will fail. The bricks have already fallen on 911.

Read Revelation 11 carefully. When Mystery Babylon rises from the sea of nations, the two witnesses are killed. When this happens, Babylon is destroyed. Where? Where THEIR LORD was crucified. Egypt. Their Lord is Nimrod. Our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem.

What did God say? Come out of Egypt.

reply to post by milkyway12


America is a lot like Babylon when it comes to its wealth, pride, power and glory.
But America is not the Babylon spoken of in revelations. Its perhaps the modern day equivalent of ancient powerful empires like Rome or Egypt...but its not the Babylon mentioned in the bible.

Babylon is a city... symbolized as a woman (great whore.)


The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.
-Revelations 17:18


And only ONE city has been described in the same way as Babylon.
Jerusalem.

Compare the following verses....
Matthew 23:35 with Revelations 18:24
Isaiah 47:7 with Revelation 18:7
Jeremiah 4:30-31 with Revelation 17:4 and 17:16

___________________________________________

And as user DISRAELI mentioned earlier

It is the "blood of the saints" that identifies the Beast and Babylon.

Hmmm, the Blood of Saints. So at the moment it just seems really hard to identify Babylon. The Bible tells his people to flee from out of Babylon, but if we do not know Babylon, how the crap can we flee?

Babylon cant be this hard to identify. I cant think of any Nation in the middle east that can remotely meet the standards given to Babylon.

Here are a few more verses.

“My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD. And lest your heart faint, and ye fear for the rumour that shall be heard in the land; a rumour shall both come one year, and after that in another year shall come a rumour, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler.” Jeremiah 51:45-46

“Ye who have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still; remember the LORD afar off, and let Jerusalem come into your mind.” Jeremiah 51:50

For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain. ” Jeremiah 50:9

Sharpen the arrows, take up the shields! The LORD has stirred up the kings of the Medes, because his purpose is to destroy Babylon. The LORD will take vengeance, vengeance for his temple.”Jeremiah 51:11

Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.” Isaiah 13:17

Iran will cause Babylon to stir. Who at the moment is threatening Iran? America and Israel.
----

However, that ' blood of the saints ' thing seems hard to identify with ...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


It seems Babylon is described as being much larger than a single city, and Babylon has much timber and many rivers, and the entire world becomes rich from its harbors.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Ill study your arguments tomorrow. Thanks for the links.

reply to post by milkyway12

Babylon cant be this hard to identify. I cant think of any Nation in the middle east that can remotely meet the standards given to Babylon.

Did you compare the verses I had posted earlier?

Jerusalem:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. -Matthew 23:35

Babylon:
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. -Revelations 18:24



Jerusalem is the only city that is accused of having the blood of the saints.

reply to post by milkyway12


Also, Revelations talks of a "new Jerusalem".
Why have a "new" Jerusalem, when you have the current Jerusalem?

The answer could be that Jerusalem is indeed Babylon...and will be destroyed.

Originally posted by milkyway12
Hmmm, the Blood of Saints. So at the moment it just seems really hard to identify Babylon. The Bible tells his people to flee from out of Babylon, but if we do not know Babylon, how the crap can we flee?

Why is it so difficult to contemplate the possibility that Revelation's Babylon hasn't yet come into existence, so it isn't yet necessary to flee from her?

Every public building has instructions about how to evacuate the building in case of fire.
But people are not supposed to start following these instructions until the fire actually breaks out.
People don't spend all their time rushing around the building crying "Quick, quick, we must identify where the fire is, so that we can flee from it!"
If there are no immediate signs of fire, they assume there isn't one, just at the moment, and get on with their work.
They WAIT until fire breaks out, and THEN they evacuate the building.

Similarly with Babylon. WHEN Babylon shows itself by shedding the blood of the saints, THEN is the time to flee from it. Until then, there is no need for concern.
When the fire does break out, the alarm bells will be obvious enough.

In my opinion you're partially right. The entity that would be the "Babylon" described in Revelation doesn't exist yet.
But let me show the prophesies that describe it.

Read the book of Daniel. While some of these prophesies theoretically have already happened there is a problem with that interpretation. The prophesies specifically state that they are end time prophesies. But the end times haven't come yet. Theoretically they haven't seen their ultimate fulfillment. So if you treat Daniel as prophesies of the future then they explain much of what happens on earth in the end times.

So in a nutshell they describe this.

A powerful western country that looked Greek to Daniel is attacked by a loose group of middle eastern nations. This country attacks and conquers 2 kings/nations in the middle east. Then it conquers "Persia". Then it suffers a disaster and fragments into 4 republics.

Later 2 new confederacies or power centers develop. One based in the middle east and one based in Europe and North America. The north and the south. After the 7 year treaty is signed then a force out of Egypt attacks a major city and religious center in the north and causes a war.

And this war sputters on and off during the 7 year period of the agreement. And approximately during the middle of the 7 years the first ruler of the north vanishes and his replacement only rules for a few short months before he is deposed.

The 3rd ruler would be the "Antichrist". He is the one that desecrates the Jewish temple and starts a war with God so to speak. And he gets 3 and a half years approximately before he is destroyed at the battle of Armageddon.

The country you're looking for isn't quite baked yet. But I suspect it's in the oven. Or at least in the mixing bowl.

Originally posted by ntech
A powerful western country that looked Greek to Daniel is attacked by a loose group of middle eastern nations. This country attacks and conquers 2 kings/nations in the middle east. Then it conquers "Persia". Then it suffers a disaster and fragments into 4 republics.
Later 2 new confederacies or power centers develop. One based in the middle east and one based in Europe and North America. The north and the south

A couple of amendments need to be made here.
a) The kingdom did not "look Greek" to Daniel, because he did not see it. He just saw an animal symbol.
It was an angel who told him that the kingdom was Greece. Daniel ch11 is a continuation of the angel's speech begun in ch10 v20.
b) In history, it was not the original Greek kingdom that divided into four fragments, but the expanded kingdom resulting from the conquest of Persia. The original kingdom remained intact as one of the four.
c) In history, the "north" and "south" kingdoms were two more of the "four" fragments. In Daniel, they are labelled by their geographical relationship to Israel (Syria is north, Egypt is south).

Still BY FAR one of the better places to live than some other countries.

Do you want this....



or this....

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by ntech
A powerful western country that looked Greek to Daniel is attacked by a loose group of middle eastern nations. This country attacks and conquers 2 kings/nations in the middle east. Then it conquers "Persia". Then it suffers a disaster and fragments into 4 republics.
Later 2 new confederacies or power centers develop. One based in the middle east and one based in Europe and North America. The north and the south

A couple of amendments need to be made here.
a) The kingdom did not "look Greek" to Daniel, because he did not see it. He just saw an animal symbol.
It was an angel who told him that the kingdom was Greece. Daniel ch11 is a continuation of the angel's speech begun in ch10 v20.
b) In history, it was not the original Greek kingdom that divided into four fragments, but the expanded kingdom resulting from the conquest of Persia. The original kingdom remained intact as one of the four.
c) In history, the "north" and "south" kingdoms were two more of the "four" fragments. In Daniel, they are labelled by their geographical relationship to Israel (Syria is north, Egypt is south).



One detail to remember here though. It appears to have already started/restarted.

Daniel 11-2 is a perfect description of the events leading to the 9-11 attacks.
And Daniel 8 describes this "Greece" attacking and conquering 2 nations in the middle east.

For a coincidence it's a bit unnerving. For an end of the world prophecy. And if Persia/Iran were to be attacked/conquered in the near future that would make Daniel 4 for 4.