A Question Concerning The Existence Of Intelligent ET Life

I am still questioning the existence of intelligent life on this planet.

Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here.

reply to post by Druscilla


How do you know that their technology that they have takes that long to pick up on a reading? They could have a scanner or some sort of computerized system that they use to check out planets that have the right components to have some sort of a life form on it without it taking so long that the point would be moot cause the life cycle has died out.

If they are close enough, say like living on Jupiter (which could be a possibility, just not as a life form we can fathom) then they probably got attracted to us a long time ago and increased their viewing of us since we started Nuking the hell out of Earth.

Then there's the other theory that maybe they dropped off life and have been watching it go about its many different cycles.

I believe more along the lines that as we evolve, spiritually, we go through different learning stages and that those cycles are done on planets. As we go about the different stages we are on different planets experiencing different things to learn lessons to grow and mature as a soul until we are a pure soul so to speak.

Originally posted by Druscilla
[snip]
... The point of my illustration and the benchmark, however, something that some seem to be missing and even taking offense over, is that the universe is so giahugic, so vastly large, that even with billions or hundreds of billions of concurrently extent civilizations all over the universe, because the universe is so huge, even if some lucky ET civilization could travel instantaneously, the chances are still extremely minutely tiny of any one technologically advanced ET civilization bumping into any other one ...
[snip]
... Exactly when did the earth get to be any kind of interesting enough to attract the attention of other alien civilizations such that whatever that kind of interestingness was could be detected and sensed from tens to thousands, to hundreds of thousands of light years away?

Druscilla, your mathematics are flawed, to put it as bluntly as one can. It is so very linear and early 20th century (at best). More coming on that....

And your opinion and reasoning are not offensive in any personal sense, no, of course not. But I suppose that some might find your thoughts a little intellectually 'offensive', in a way, just because of the amount of certainty you seem to attach to them. It's not that your conclusions differ. It's that, if your words are any indication, you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with your 'analysis' up above must simply have not given the matter sufficient thought, or else has just not fully grasped the beauty and weight of your words. Correct? That sounds absurd, yes, but I'm just letting you know that in fact you really do sound that way when you say things like "something that some seem to be missing and even taking offense over is..."

Consider: it's possible to disagree with you even after fully considering both the thrust and finer details of your argument, and the magnitude of the distances between stars. Did you know that there are scientists and engineers who read and contribute to this forum? They tend to understand very large and very small numbers better than most. Disagreement with your conclusions may not necessarily be indicative of ignorance or stupidity....

Fermi grasped those distances between stars, no? I tried to point this blind spot of yours out earlier in the thread by bringing up this same topic. (The Fermi Paradox.) It's notable that the Nobel Prize-winning physicist disagreed with your mathematical reasoning and your assumptions 70 years or so before you reasoned and assumed them. He could probably solve pretty daunting higher-order differential equations in his head, and his mathematical model regarding the spread of intelligence throughout a galaxy was, we can be sure, a little more sophisticated, inclusive and complete than your ad-libbed 'linear' model. So why exactly should we adopt your model?

Perhaps the problem here is not simply that you're being misunderstood, but is also (or instead?) that you're the one not truly hearing or comprehending others?

Should you wish your opinion and mathematics (above) to appear well-reasoned and sensible, you're probably obliged to address at least some of these rather basic points. Where did Fermi go wrong in his calculation? More specifically, why is there not even mention of the **possibility** of exponential growth in your analysis of what is essentially a population problem? Strange...

(I'm wasting my time with you, aren't I?!?)

they r out there and they r visiting us no dought about that i haw seen ufo twice in my life i dont think they haw any intrest in us we haw notthing to offer them its just over a 100 years sence man started flying if everyone joined together insted of fighting and makind wars in another 50 or 100 yers man would b in space traweling abowe speed of light

There is definitely intelligent life out there. People tend to discount just how advanced a race could be with say 200,000 plus years of civilization. Their abilities would be God-like. The vastness of space would be no large obstacle to such a developed race of beings. Just because it is impossible for humanity to traverse the large distances of space doesn't mean it cannot be done. It is the height of human ignorance to say "well since we deem it impossible then it cannot be done."

We as humans make laws about things we barely understand or only have theories about. A Alien race that has evolved far longer than us would have cleared those hurdles long ago.

People come on this forum to discuss Aliens/UFO's, but most are often ridiculed by close minded message board know it alls. In time the skeptics will be silenced.

For a civilisation to advance technically and survive,
it must also advance spiritually,
not necessarily religious,
but a more tolerant view overall,
and pretty much have it's house in order
and have a more harmonious paradigm in their social structure.
This is a given if they are to safely attain the level they are at.
(Unless they stole the tech)

We currently reside on a wired up and prepped bomb called the Earth full of nukes,
it hasn't happened to date but all it would take is an accident to cause a domino effect.
Maybe the failsafes have worked to date,
but there are a lot of uncivilised countries out there
with radical religious views
and if they got their hands on a weapon of mass destruction
they would use it to further their agenda,
of this I have no doubt.
ET technology has to be advanced,
particularly in the area of energy production.
Free energy for all following total disclosure
would not bode well for humanity,
considering what fanatics could do.

Religion is dangerous,
I have said this here many times,
and is the single most powerful mind control tool in existance
and has kept humanity in shackles for millenia,
and caused division, untold strife and suffering
and been used as a tool by those in power
to reinforce their position.

A visiting ET intelligence would know this about humanity,
and assuming they are benevolent
will continue to stay aloof,
and protect their technology at all costs.

What concerns me,
knowing this,
if contact has been made with rogue aliens,
and considering the above, rogue they must be,
what deal has been done?
What has been sold out?

I think this is of bigger concern
than the threat of nuclear proliferation.

The lid is not on this issue solely for security reasons
but for the gain of the few
to the cost of the many,
who don't even know the scenario exists
let alone know what deal was done,
until it's too late.

This is what we, here,
should be concentrating our efforts on.

Most of the questions posed by those on this thread and the OP are answered here, and there is much, much more, a kind of everything you wanted to know about aliens, alien-earth contact, why most of the alphabet soup agencies were created and their original missions and purposes, the real power behind governments, different types of aliens, deals done between aliens and the group MAJIC, etc.

Scroll down for english titles:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by Druscilla


You are thinking about it in the wrong way. You should thnk about it as life forms expanding their territory and competing for resources, just like on Earth life has spread to all corners and occupies 1000s of different niches. The same will happen in space. Space and it's valuable resources will be occupied by creatures expanding their territories due to evolutionary pressure. There will be few virgin areas of space in a galaxy that is 13 billion years old.

It's also an assumption that organized giant civilizations are formed rather than families or groups. Just like on Earth even if there are individual lifeforms or civilizations they will constantly interchange but the territory will remain occupied with intelligent lifeforms. If we look at Earth we can see life has been remarkably resilient as a whole for billions of years even if the actors change.

I guess many people on here don't even realize that the solar system is actually constantly moving through the galaxy , it is not static, so not only could the intelligent entities or lifeforms such as bacteria come to us but we can actually go to them.


The biggest piece of advice I have for people here is read more, understand more, then come up with a theory.

reply to post by nervus


I hope they have better grammar and spelling when they get so advanced.

reply to post by Druscilla


If your clever then there is no need to physically visit and map all these billions of stars, and as you pointed out, it would take far to long ! A much easier way is to build self replicating probes, we can do this already, build a machine that can replicate it's self, we have 3d printers that can print out there own componants and assemble another 3d printer ! It would make much more sense to build a few thousand of these, send them out with the command to replicate and explore ! Imagine it, one of these devices lands on our moon, and starts to compile information about our solar system to send back home, but at the same time is making another 5 of them selves to fly on to the next places , the growth would be exponential , well the race that built these things just sits at home , cataloguing all this information, maybe just manually going to study, meet, the more interesting ones.

This way you could map and catalogue the entire galaxy in a relatively short time ! Chances are that they would only really be interested in in-depth studies of civilisations that meet certain criteria, it's like when we visit the zoo, who really wants to see the moths ? We want to see the dolphins ! They may only want to make contact with civilisations such as those that have got to the stage where the can completely harness the power of the sun, a probe would be able to tell that the moment it entered the system, evidence of dyson spheres or other extensive machinery around their star ?

I believe we are far more likely to encounter a probe than a saucer with occupants

ETs didn't have to "find" us, they were here before we were, and more than likely engineered us. People who say ETs can't be here because they couldn't have found us, they didn't need to. And if there are really advanced ETs/EDs, trying to put limits on their capabilities based on human experience is laughable.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Yep, they're out there, and so advanced they would appear to us as god like.

I dont go on the idea of wizzing around space at faster than light speed though, there is too much junk out there. I think they will have the ability to enter coordinates and just appear, no travel involved.

many credible contactee's claim this to be the case, they didn't bother trying to go "faster" than the speed of light, they just use something like a worm hole or interdimensional shortcuts and they just pop out in differed places in the universe.. they have no need for "travelling" as it were.

I think that is an extremely valid argument, because even if you were travelling at the speed of light it would still take ages to get across the universe.. That and if they have mastered most of the stuff in the universe they would surely know how to use interdimensional travel/worm holes. It is a pretty big assumption by myself, but personally I think this is the case.

reply to post by sparrowstail


That's why there won't be any kind of disclosure for a long time

reply to post by OMsk3ptic


Nobody engineered us, we are a product of natural selection just like every other animal and plant on the planet. There is no need to infer anything more than this.
What allowed us to develop technology was our ability for cultural learning in particular.

What I would like to ask people to think about is this: if there is life out there, intelligent life, and you accept this to be true, then why would you think that there are no civilizations who have mastered inter-stellar travel?

reply to post by seabhac-rua


The answer might be simpler then we all imagine.

Its simply not worth the trouble.

Why?

At our current level of techology we are already detecting hundreds (if not thousands) of planets circling stars. Viewing these planets directly will not be far off (in fact I think we have visually seen at least one). Sniffing the atmospheres of these planets is already underway. If we but devoted a tiny fraction of a percentage more of our racial wealth into the study of the cosmos we could have our stellar neighborhood mapped out in something under a hundred years.

Think about that for a moment.

All this at our current level of technology.

Vast knowledge available to the Human race if we but take a little bit more interest.

Now think about this.

Lets say there is one other civilization in our Galaxy and lets put them, oh I don't know...1000 years ahead of us.

These people long ago mapped out the Milky way. In fact they are probably bored by the whole thing. Their children use technology to view other worlds across the Galaxy in detail from their backyards. Their understanding of life processes and the formation of the cosmos give them a perspective that makes the most spectacular events to us, utterly mundane to them. Technology and Biology for them has probably long since merged in a way as to make them masters of all they survey.

All this, while never having to leave your homeworld.

Now I ask you, why travel across the cosmos when you can experience it in every way from the saftey of your nanocouch?

Perhaps our universe is but a simulation of the real thing that these beings created for entertainment and study.

It's not a matter of belief.

Skeptics do not accept ETV because there is no evidence pointing toward it. There is Roswell, and there are countless stories, but to this day there is nothing which definitively points toward visitation.

We may accept that there are vast amounts of life in the universe, but we cannot prove it yet. It's a belief. An educated guess. Seeing as we are all on Earth though, would not visitation leave an imprint for us to examine? We cannot see the life elsewhere, which is why we may hypothesize and infer it's out there. On Earth, where we all are, we see nothing to indicate visitation though. Doesn't that mean anything to you?

Originally posted by ManInAsia
reply to post by nervus

 

I hope they have better grammar and spelling when they get so advanced.

LOL I hear they don't need to move their lips when they speak. Instead they implant their thoughts in our minds. Hopefully they use "good English"