Awareness = Awakeness

Just something I wanted to share to try and help. I haven't done this whole thing to its conclusion and sustained it, but I think I've managed it for certain amounts of time so I think it makes sense. I'm not pretending I'm fully awake, but that I've had moments where I've been able to see things clearly. Without meditation I don't think I'd have ever understood this like I do now :

Delusion makes you confused >
Confusion makes you stressed >
Stress makes you anxious and/or agitated >
Anxiety and/or agitation brings fear and anger >
Fear and anger bring about chaos and strip you of hope and confidence, whilst also causing problems for others.

To stop delusion, use your awareness and be unattached >
Being aware and unattached = Awake.

Awareness = Awakeness.

reply to post by robhines


I am delusional, confused and agitated nearly all of the time. You left out the part about suicidal thoughts. Every other day it seems I am wrestling with myself so that I don't kill myself, after all. I have tried meditation, but I cannot break free. I envy you spiritual types, really.

Originally posted by MrUncreated
reply to post by robhines

 

I am delusional, confused and agitated nearly all of the time. You left out the part about suicidal thoughts. Every other day it seems I am wrestling with myself so that I don't kill myself, after all. I have tried meditation, but I cannot break free. I envy you spiritual types, really.

I've been there, even though I meditated for a long time. I might even end up back there, but all I can say is that persistence with meditation, along with some meds at times to help with depression and anxiety when things got really bad, helped me through it.

If you're that bad though maybe you should get to a doctor for some medication? I had to do the same thing for a few months this year, was on meds for depression and anxiety. Please try and get some help if you're struggling to that degree every day.

I really hope things work out for you, and meditation took a long time to start working to a decent enough degree too. It requires a lot of patience because at first you're often not doing it right at all, (ironically many people give up at that stage, before even doing it properly!) with enough persistence and awareness though you can correct the flaws and it starts working a whole lot better if so.

Please get some help for your current problems though.

reply to post by robhines


Hm... I thought it was just me. I didn't know it was a common problem. Now, you may laugh at me and think I am making it up, but my last attempt, I saw a clear image of a white "grey" alien. It was naked, sitting at the edge of a cliff or hill. It noticed me and got up, and started toward me, and I opened my eyes because I got scared. I don't know if that was my imagination, but it was pretty clear, like a movie, and usually my thoughts are like several television shows running at the same time. I have a difficult time reading novels if there is any background noise, because there's always plenty of noise in my own mind. I can't shut it off. Now, is this normal during meditation? Did I do something right? I just let my mind do its own thing, without thinking or putting any effort in at all, and that's what happened.

Also, I have been getting help already. I took some meds a while ago, but they messed me up even more. I thought for certain I was going to lose my mind. I felt like I was turning inside out. I had the worst nightmares you can imagine, and I woke up in a cold sweat every night, and I couldn't think straight. I'm pretty sure I b*tched about it here in ATS, but my memory is usually a fog. Besides, I usually b*tch about something rather impulsively on the internet, without thinking about it. As a way to maintain a little sanity.

Suicide hell .I am quite aware of the BS I have been for years.Thats why the think I'm crazy.But my spirit is dead asleep.Id fix it if I knew how but I'm so pi##ed at these murderous scum who finance things ,I think it better wait until one of us goes down.

reply to post by MrUncreated


I have been where you are, here are some videos that may help you.
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Originally posted by robhines
Delusion makes you confused >
Confusion makes you stressed >

Awareness = Awakeness.

The reason why being 'awake' makes me confused is because I believe in immortal souls. Possibly being awake may let someone learn to talk magically, basically anything he or she says will happen.

Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by robhines
Delusion makes you confused >
Confusion makes you stressed >

Awareness = Awakeness.

The reason why being 'awake' makes me confused is because I believe in immortal souls. Possibly being awake may let someone learn to talk magically, basically anything he or she says will happen.

edit on 1-6-2012 by greyer because: (no reason given)

Being awake as far as I can tell would also give the awareness that there's checks and balances in place all over so that that type of thing can't happen. A truly awakened person has no desire for that either in a manipulative sense as far as I can tell, and would have to let go of the temptation that type of thing brings or never truly awaken.

So for that you should also be referring to the anxiety > fear link, fear that results from delusion about having that type of power because there's a misconception about how things might really operate. Please note that I don't know any of this, it's just what I think is the case.

Btw I'm not trying to suggest any of this is easy either, unless you have a natural skill at this type of thing or you've worked at it a lot. I think it becomes easier eventually though because you get used to it from experience and have long since dropped a lot of the obstacles you used to deal with regularly. Either that or when those obstacles arise, you can get past them and let go of them again quickly.

reply to post by MrUncreated


When I started I had the tendency to drift off too much when meditating, and I think what you saw there is a sign that you did the same really. You have to hold your concentration (this can take a lot of practise too.) because if you become too relaxed without it the unconscious starts messing around with you, just like when you start drifting into a dream when going to sleep. So yeah, people can see all types of things, but the advice I've often seen is that you shouldn't get sidetracked by those types of things and keep concentrating, because they eventually pass.

As for you taking meds and it not working, sorry to read that. Maybe you could try some different types or arrange to speak to a doctor so they can find something better for you in the short term? Don't get me wrong, I'm not for people being stuck on meds for depression at all and don't think that's right, but you should be able to get something to help until you're able to deal with it better.

I first went and said I had depression, but like you the meds didn't really work. When I went back though and explained fully what was wrong with me (or as fully as I was comfortable with.) the doctor added anxiety to the depression and gave me better meds that worked. Hope things work out for you anyway!

Originally posted by robhines
Being awake as far as I can tell would also give the awareness that there's checks and balances in place all over so that that type of thing can't happen. A truly awakened person has no desire for that either in a manipulative sense as far as I can tell, and would have to let go of the temptation that type of thing brings or never truly awaken.

I realize that can be like an eastern sort of philosophy, and also a western philosophy as in lust equating to sin. Maybe that's why my soul is lost, because I am always giving into pleasure, the wanting. I get overwhelmed with craving like a child. I feel like the realization brings the emotions to rise in a natural experience.

So for that you should also be referring to the anxiety > fear link, fear that results from delusion about having that type of power because there's a misconception about how things might really operate. Please note that I don't know any of this, it's just what I think is the case.

So what I am to do with emotion? Everything is emotion, you are right that I have problems with fear and anxiety. I want to write more threads about it because I do not think I'm clear - everybody has the fear I am talking about to some degree and if they don't I would think it must mean they have either worked on it previously or they just have the complete awake state of mind. I can see the fear in others, I can see it in myself, and the people I looked to as 'masters' are the ones who wouldn't show a single hint of it while being completely intellectual which would have to be a sign of being awake. The anxiety can be there as it is in many things some real and some not illusions or delusions, but you're right it is easy for me to have it, I want to learn a way out of it.

Btw I'm not trying to suggest any of this is easy either, unless you have a natural skill at this type of thing or you've worked at it a lot. I think it becomes easier eventually though because you get used to it from experience and have long since dropped a lot of the obstacles you used to deal with regularly. Either that or when those obstacles arise, you can get past them and let go of them again quickly.

Thanks robhines, sometimes words as those are the actual relief. From what I am learning there are many psychological obstacles to becoming aware and awake which is why most probably just block it out mentally, it seems to be a journey in our mind so hopefully I will get past them quickly.

Originally posted by greyer
So what I am to do with emotion?

Not easy again to describe, but it's all interconnected with your thoughts, mindset and so on. One thing that helps a lot with this is equanimity. The act of not reacting to things in the way you would normally do, working to let go of that need to react and show some type of emotion if it's causing problems.

I could say more but you can research into equanimity and find a lot out there. I've found this in my bookmarks but I'm sure there's another link somewhere, will edit and add if I find it : Equanimity: Our Greatest Friend

Quote from the page :

Probably the best way of working with equanimity is to embrace our obstacles, to open to our challenges, whatever they may be. Obstacles test our balance and poise in life. We learn from life's situations so that we don't try to avoid, control, manipulate and contain every experience, but allow the possibility of just being with something, as it is, equanimously.

And yeah, I get the cravings for various things, etc, and regularly have problems too. The only positive thing I can say is that I don't let them affect me emotionally as much now a lot of the time. Kind of like removing the emotional response and not adding to the chain of karma as much, and when you can do it regularly, it really is as if you can sense the bad karma being reduced massively. Not easy though, agreed!

edit : just found this too which I think clears up some misconceptions -

Now, this doesn’t mean you are cold like a statue to what goes on around you, far from it. The state of equanimity is one of compassion, not a feeling, feelings can be disturbed by outer circumstances. It is not an emotion, not a thought, all these can change moment to moment. Equanimity is a complete controlled composure under the tensions of life, a total grasp and embracing of the present moment from each moment to the next.

Equanimity - Reflection of a Buddhist Monk

And one more link here with some other details : Equanimity - Insight Meditation Center

Originally posted by greyer
Thanks robhines, sometimes words as those are the actual relief. From what I am learning there are many psychological obstacles to becoming aware and awake which is why most probably just block it out mentally, it seems to be a journey in our mind so hopefully I will get past them quickly.

No probs, and yeah agreed again, it does seem badly daunting sometimes, but once people start and see that every decent aspect of themselves can be improved with effort and the right way of going about it, a lot of hope usually returns.

reply to post by robhines


Thank you robhines, I will be researching Equanimity. Being completely awake to fear and love should be the correct path. Love for ourselves would be able to distinguish what the outcome of a craving would be, but we would have to be intelligent enough, strong enough, and not let fear prevent us from making decisions to determine if the true outcome is pleasureful.

Something that helped me yesterday that you may be able to help me on, I was listening to someone about positive mindfulness (I am very familiar with dwelling on things that effect my emotions) and a caller came on to say that he did his masters on the subject. In talking about karma, he said that in our thoughts we can only look at what we have instead of what we have not (and created a term for it). I think it comes down to that - especially in love you can feel so much emotions just because the person isn't there anymore, all verses what is and what isn't. So last night I happened to have one of those mornings you can't sleep and I thought that I am not completing my goals, I was sad and depressed. I started to force the thoughts in my mind "I have a bed to sleep in, focus on what I do have," and it slowly made me feel better.

In this thread I am learning that karma is associated with thoughts, actions are associated with fear, being awake is associated with love - in order to have good karma we must have loving thoughts and no fear, challenging the obstacles in our path so they will not slow us down.

reply to post by greyer


Hi again, I don't think I need to help you with much, seems like you're getting it pretty well there.

If you have any problems though, make sure to post back. There's people around here more experienced with this stuff too that can probably help you even more. But really, I think you're getting it! It doesn't magically get better all at once, and often you might think it's all fallen apart, but the next day it often makes more sense. It's really strange, much weirder than I can understand, but if you keep your focus things really do start to make sense. It's just a long process sometimes that involves a lot of hard work.

I guess that's what scares people so often, the amount of work you actually have to put into it, but it's not like you put in all the work and you're left empty handed every day/night, you can regularly see the results and you will do if you go at it in the right way, or in whatever way is best suited to you.

The way I see it personally is that it's the hardest task we have, so we really have to redefine who we are as we go along and put a lot into it, but the good thing is that even one good meditation can restore your mindset, so to speak, and remind you that you're on the right track. So yes, it's tough, but at the same time you kind of get instant feedback if you're doing it right, so it regularly works out not so bad at all.

edit : just one note - you said you thought that actions are associated with fear, I think it's that actions are associated with anything, it's just what mindset drives those actions. I think actions are actions, just like thoughts are thoughts, as far as I can tell, it's the intention behind both that determines whether they're good, bad, or neutral.

Originally posted by robhines
Just something I wanted to share to try and help. I haven't done this whole thing to its conclusion and sustained it, but I think I've managed it for certain amounts of time so I think it makes sense. I'm not pretending I'm fully awake, but that I've had moments where I've been able to see things clearly. Without meditation I don't think I'd have ever understood this like I do now :

Delusion makes you confused >
Confusion makes you stressed >
Stress makes you anxious and/or agitated >
Anxiety and/or agitation brings fear and anger >
Fear and anger bring about chaos and strip you of hope and confidence, whilst also causing problems for others.

To stop delusion, use your awareness and be unattached >
Being aware and unattached = Awake.

Awareness = Awakeness.

edit on 31-5-2012 by robhines because: added

Wouldn't knowledge take care of 99% of this? Or, is this what is meant by awareness?

Originally posted by MrUncreated
reply to post by robhines

 

I am delusional, confused and agitated nearly all of the time. You left out the part about suicidal thoughts. Every other day it seems I am wrestling with myself so that I don't kill myself, after all. I have tried meditation, but I cannot break free. I envy you spiritual types, really.

Perhaps i might be able to help you "break free" so to speak...

Read this....

Who am I

Originally posted by jiggerj
Wouldn't knowledge take care of 99% of this? Or, is this what is meant by awareness?

I think you could say that in some respects, yeah. But I'd say that if that were the case, not to forget the last 1% that's your intuition. And that sometimes that 1% is very important.

I actually think your intuition is a lot more than 1%, but I'm just trying to relate to what you're saying.

I just find it a little hard to relate awareness to our current conception of knowledge, please don't think I'm trying to obscure things on purpose. I'm just trying to explain this in the best way I can, and I openly admit I don't understand it fully, and that I might not understand it correctly at all. If there's anyone around that can see I'm wrong, please correct me.

I would suggest you add "Self" to the process. "Self Awareness" is the key, not just awareness. Folks who "wake up" to the governments actions, or the constraints of religious systems often feel they are aware. They are not, they are awake/aware to the reality they have created around them yes, but they have not incorporated what that awareness means for themselves. The key to waking up is to be as mindful of your process - without judgment, and the reality around you: awareness. Then, one must add the all important magic called Self Reflection. One takes the reality they have created and reflects on their connection to it.

The place where nearly all people fall down is the last part. They judge instead of self reflect and as such they want to run away from what they see. The key to really waking up, is to self reflect without judgment of any sort; just simply notice what you do when you do it and in what reality it is all done. Then move on: don't like it, don't hate it, don't love it, don't judge any of it. While in the process of self reflection, just accept. More awareness, more self reflection, more awakening is the recipe, but the kick that makes the recipe come alive is to stop judging while self reflecting.

Self reflection comes after an event or experience, not during. Some folks miss this, they get to self reflective in the middle of some experience and this becomes an effort to control. When you get to the point of saying "gee, what was that all about" you've gotten to the self reflection point.

reply to post by crankyoldman


Great post and well said, thanks!

Originally posted by robhines
reply to post by greyer

 

Hi again, I don't think I need to help you with much, seems like you're getting it pretty well there.

.

Hey thanks for the post, it feels better to know that I am right in my path so just strength is needed. I think that connections in the world are very important, and of course our belief system as a concrete foundation for our thoughts on religious and spiritual subjects takes a toll to one's consciousness, but the aspect of mental perception means nothing to me unless real magic is created.

It doesn't magically get better all at once, and often you might think it's all fallen apart, but the next day it often makes more sense. It's really strange, much weirder than I can understand, but if you keep your focus things really do start to make sense. It's just a long process sometimes that involves a lot of hard work.

I guess that's what scares people so often, the amount of work you actually have to put into it, but it's not like you put in all the work and you're left empty handed every day/night, you can regularly see the results and you will do if you go at it in the right way, or in whatever way is best suited to you.

The way I see it personally is that it's the hardest task we have, so we really have to redefine who we are as we go along and put a lot into it, but the good thing is that even one good meditation can restore your mindset, so to speak, and remind you that you're on the right track. So yes, it's tough, but at the same time you kind of get instant feedback if you're doing it right, so it regularly works out not so bad at all.

edit : just one note - you said you thought that actions are associated with fear, I think it's that actions are associated with anything, it's just what mindset drives those actions. I think actions are actions, just like thoughts are thoughts, as far as I can tell, it's the intention behind both that determines whether they're good, bad, or neutral.

Thanks for finding that, it was more like a creative expression and I agree - all my actions should be not only associated with love today but rooted from it. An example would be at a gas station, almost all the body language of individuals is rooted from fear starting from the time they enter into another groups perception. They may try to ignore in their car, but when they get out of the car and are in the public every movement and action is based on fear, rarely on hate and even more rarely on love. I know that the world is not a trusting place but it's gotten psychologically out of hand in my opinion, there are places in the world that don't have any social fear, like if we were there all would be communicating upon seeing each other.