Terrorism Cannot Be Stopped With War

Originally posted by flycatch
If I read all the recent posts to this topic currectly no posters have posted viable solutions to this epidemic. I use the word epidemic as a word to describe a diease that has spread throughout the globe.
It is well known that Muslims are spreding this diease but what is not targeted is the origin of the diease itself.

Good idea, not sure you've actually got to the root, you may want to look a little deeper.

Inorder for this plague to be erridicated you most seek out the source that gives it birth.

And maybe you should read the thread again, I already told from where the problem stems. The rest of the world knows from where the problem stems. It's gun toting warmongers that have a problem recognising the root of the problem.

It is my belief we must start with all the holy men of this faith and discover who is really preaching death and destruction upon all non Arabs. Once this is accomplish we eliminate them one at a time. When others take over the power vacum we eliminate them also.
This will be a slow process but I believe the Muslims will get the message.

Is it terrorists or Muslims you want to wipe out, you better start learning the difference before you start shooting, or does it not matter.

I ask a SIMPLE question to all the barbarians. Can you honestly believe you were THREATENED by Iraq? The tenuous, everchanging premise for the US incursion into this country has so far cost the US 200 BILLION dollars and 1000 US service personel. For what? I, like most rational souls on the planet, know it was for oil. Don't you get it? It is costing the US a fortune. You may not think these sums are important but ultimately the piper does get paid and he will be paid with blows to YOUR standard of living. It may take a decade or so to filter down to you but it will.

"but we're delivering democracy to the Middle East".....ROFLMAO .

Stop thinking like children and start to think like an adult.
You WILL have children and they will have children. You must make it a safe world for them. Voting Bush out is a start but I doubt he'll allow an election.

Good luck.



[edit on 10-9-2004 by Romeo]

cstyle226 you sure said it right!!

The fist thing the russians do about beslan? The demonstrate against terrorism.

OK! Hold it right there! What is demonstrating against terror going to do, it's like trying to declare war on them.

Terrorists don't just pop up out of no where, you need to piss a buch of people off first. Not just scratch their car or tell them they are stupid, nooo you need to piss em off way more.

Eemmm... like... errr... invade their country. Steal their wealth, bomb them something like that. ONLY THEN will you see terrorists pop up "out of nowhere".

People need to stop western governments from creating environemnts that CREATE TERRORISTS.

Do you really think the west steals their money? Try their own goverments the western world pours billions and billions of dollars into those countries every year. Do you think they just give us that oil? Their own Goiverments keep them poor not the west.

But lets just blame the infidels for all their problems its so much easier

Why doesn't anyone think about this?

As it has been pointed out in this thread and others, wars are fought against countries, not ideas or problems. Having a war on drugs or terrorism, is like trying to have a war against liberals or conservatives, you can't do it. Going to war in iraq just gives most americans a face to hate. Just as in the cold war, some people just felt 'safer' having someone to hate. Now we have organizations that have no country border, and we don't have any clue how to fight something so amorphous. The only way is to look at the problem and try to finds its source...i.e. with the 'war on drugs', the columbians are not the problem, we are. If we(as in the human race) didn't buy and use them, no one would produce them...the problem is 'us', not 'them'. As far as the world on terrorism, I don't think that people really get it. Even if OBL is part of the saudi royal family, oil is the reason we are there, and the reason we are hated. We fund and help keep in power those who oppress the people that hate us. Why is this simple point so hard for people to understand? Honestly people, who do you have more in common with, the average iraqi, who is trying to get a job, or keep his job, trying to provide for his family, or a billionaire oil man? Give me a break, most of the problems in the world are caused by about 50 or so mostly white guys who can't get along.

bentov

What is Terror[ism]?

From what i understand, it is only what most military analysts call "asymetrical" warfare? The neo-cons would have you believe it's a tactic used only by Muslims. But doesn't this type of warfare have a long history?

Terrorism may be "asymetrical" but it isn't warfare.

Warfare (modern, Geveva Convention warfare, anyway) does not deliberately target non-combatants. (I suppose it's not much difference to the poor non-combatant who's in the wrong place at the wrong time, but there still is a critical differnce...)

Terrorists specifically target non-combatants.

There is never an excuse for terrorism.

By this definition, then, the insurgents in Iraq aren't terrorists...that statement doesn't "feel" right, somehow, but whatever they are they certainly are stupid; the sooner order is restored and elections happen, the sooner the colalition troops can go home. And that's what everyone wants.

The war was a huge mistake, but the only way forward is through. The insurgents should lay down their arms and join the political process, then we can let the Iraqi people get on with deciding what kind of society they want to create.

Originally posted by cstyle226
What most people don't seem to be grasping, is the concept that terrorists are not of a finite number.

UNDERSTAND: Anyone could carry out a terrorist attack, with no prior record, and no reason for you to suspect them. They could be next door, and recently angered by some of the worlds events, and plan an attack with a group of like-minded individuals. They could be radicals islamists, fundamentalist christians, ideological jews, anarchists, and anyone else who is losing their mind over the current state of the world.

The childish assumption that they all "live in caves" is ridiculous. Osama's work is done.

Some probably believe Bush when he says, "we are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here," which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

I have been to the mideast, both as a civilian, and in the uniform, and I will tell you, killing people over there doesn't stop people from coming over here, or people here sympathizing and joining their cause.

What will it take for you people to wake up and actually UNDERSTAND what terrorism really is? Our current gov't seems to love using it, as much as, if not more, than the "alleged" terrorists.

So while we bomb and kill tons of people in Afghanistan, Iraq and "whoever is next", and capture a couple of top names...more groups will spring up to avenge them, in an even more zealous and radical form. They may not plan as well, but they will try harder and more often.

You just wait until next year, like VP Dick said, "...we'll get hit..."

War on Poverty....more poverty.
War on Drugs.....more drugs.
War on Terrorism....?

Want to declare war on more "things"?

[edit on 8-9-2004 by cstyle226]

but if they know what the consequences are by seeing it take place for real, instead of just being verbally threatened, they may hesitate and maybe even think for a minute, and maybe stop going through with whatever plan they may have had.

Originally posted by keholmes

Originally posted by koji_K
not sure what you mean by the first part. MI5 has an excellent track record as regards the IRA. MI6, on the other hand...

my point was that MI5 and MI6 are british intelligence�..but forget that�I�ll quit beating round the bush; russian intelligence warned America that iraq was planning terrorist activities. Check the link in the signature below.

Originally posted by koji_K
As for the second, who said anything about protecting americans? i have no idea what you are talking about. was it an attempt to put words in my mouth?

Your implication is that Iraq has done nothing to be targeted �..As they were planning action in America�then I�m assuming that doesn�t meet you �absolutely necessary� policy so I�m wondering what would be absolutely necessary?

just as an aside why are the postings all strecthed out now...did somebody dork something up?

what i'm saying is, if iraq was planning action against america, which is a specious claim inasmuch as just about every middle eastern country contains elements which are planning action against america, then action was warranted so far as it would nullify the threat. invasion of the whole country, at the expense of our military capabilities elsewhere, was not the proper response.

-koji K.

Originally posted by cstyle226
And another thing...the ASSAULT WEAPONS ban is about to expire.
So, any idiot, can go buy an "exciting" gun, drive to the store, kill everyone, spray people in the street until the cops show up with their pistols, spray a couple of them until he gets killed himself.

How many times will we have to watch that scenario play out before we bring the ban back?

How do you spray some one with a assault rifle?

You said you have been in uniform than you should know that the so called assault rifle is NOT a machine gun, They are banned for purely cosmetic reasons. They are no more dangerious than any other rifle

Of course it can be stopped by war. You smash them, and smash them hard.

Blackjack Pershing stopped the Islamic terror strikes.

Problem is, we have become soft, our stomachs too easily upset, and our will is not as it used to be.

That, however, might be overcome if the scum strike again. WAnt ot see them terminated? Let a charlie hand-carriable or similar be detonated in CONUS. Our stomachs might get iron-clad and our resolve strengthen greatly.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Of course it can be stopped by war. You smash them, and smash them hard.

\

Damn TC something we agree on

I was against going Iraq but that is beside the point now. Since we are already there, we might as well finish the job

But I also think that we need to stop interfering in their business.

Carrot and the stick, we make great trade partners and dangerous enemies

[edit on 23-11-2004 by Amuk]

We agree more often than not. You'd notice that if you weren't too busy running Amuk!

I was for Iraq being hit, and I was also for it being hit first, for a handful of reasons. The obvious special weapons problem ranking high on the list (I just wish the administration hadn't allowed the stuff to get out by taking so long to strike), followed by the fact that it would brobably be the easiest and quickest of the targets, followed by the fact that we'd have a good staging area for any other operations in the middle east. Meanwhile, the enemy continues to come into Iraq so that they may be killed by our forces and the strengthening Iraqi forces.

Meanwhile, China is taking advantage of our preoccupation and is positioning itself to be the next world leader in terms of economy and military, and North Korea is a loose cannon that that qualifies as a terror-sponsoring state that is going to be very difficult to deal with. China may help with NK, though, so we won't have any reason to get physically involved in that region any more than we already are.

Anyway, interesting mental excercise. I'm glad all I have to do is to sit back and criticize the policy makers instead of actually make the policies for others (people like us here) to criticize!

Originally posted by Jalengrma
Well, no I suppose we are just supposed to sit on our hands while the terrorists wreak havoc with the innocent people of the world. We need to go after them wherever they may be!!

And by terrorists you mean the US army?

No?

Oh sorry... must try to keep up with this new-speak.. terrorists are the "bad" guys

Also @ Thomas Crowne...

You just go right ahead and believ that war will stop terror...

WAR IS TERROR

[edit on 23/11/2004 by Corinthas]

Corinthas you speak the truth !
how can we show we are more advanced and civilised if we lower ourselves to killing each other.

corinthas, thanks for the input. It was filled with ideas and alternative plans and....well, I'm sure you meant well.

Devilwasp, you could go over there and convey your thoughts to our enemy. Maybe you could convince them to be the more civilized people and overlook our knuckle-dragging ways. Considering they recently sawed the head off of a woman that had been in that country for 20 years helping them, I doubt they are going to allow you to talk, though.

BTW, Corinthas, no, the U.S. Army was not what was meant, and no, that is not Newspeak. Your attempts at being cute and wityy not only fail to measure up, but is a slap at our sons and daughters who are doing their best. These people aren't booby-trapping their own dead to kill any enemy who might try and help, they don't hide among women and children and they do not saw the heads off of civilians.
It might be a bit more for you to grasp, but has it occured to you that were the murderers stop the fighting and let us rebuild the nation and allow the Iraqis to govern themselves, we'd be out of there in no time?
In case you haven't followed the Arabs' history at even a cursory level, they understand strength and power, and attitudes like yours is not seen as compassion, but weakness to be exploited. But hey, I'm sure you feel enlightened and kinder and better than those who are trying to keep you from being blown up in your own town.

TC:

It might be a bit more for you to grasp, but has it occured to you that were the murderers stop the fighting and let us rebuild the nation and allow the Iraqis to govern themselves, we'd be out of there in no time?

Haha, good one. They should shut up and let the US "help" them with their elective process. It's their country, their land, their government, their choice.

If they want a secular Islamic government they should be "free" to have one.

Name me ONE instance where the United States of America helped ANY OTHER COUNTRY in establishing a real democracy. I can name a dozen military dictatorships they've supported and propped up, all you have to do is name ONE!

In case you haven't followed the Arabs' history at even a cursory level, they understand strength and power, and attitudes like yours is not seen as compassion, but weakness to be exploited. But hey, I'm sure you feel enlightened and kinder and better than those who are trying to keep you from being blown up in your own town.

Arab history shows that Arabs understand strength and power? All Arabs? Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindi? Wow, that's an eyeopener. They don't understand negotiation and compassion? Really.

Please post a link to back up your racist, stereotypical assertion.
Or did you take some university level course that analyzed socio-political motivations in the Middle East?

j

reply to post by keholmes


The fact is you cant fight terrorism because terrorism isnt a set people or race such as people in Iraq or Iran. Terrorism more closely resembles a religion. And not all terrorists are muslim or christian just as so many hapless people assume. Terrorists can come from any country and any religion it doesnt matter!! Has anyone ever heard of the KKK. They are white supremists with a belief similar to Terrorists in Iraq and Iran but we label them as White Supremists in America maybe because we simply dont believe that we have terrorism here. Terrorism is a belief that a set of people have. For example the true Amish dont believe in electricity. So maybe a terrorist doesnt believe in Democracy. That is their belief.

And the only way we can justify our fear for these people is to label them as a terrorist because they strike terror in people. A Terrorist in the world to me is just like the average highschool nerd that everyone picks on. And why because they are different thats why. My whole point im trying to get to is that you cant defeat terrorism. There is always someone out there that we will label as a terrorist because we dont agree with them. You kill one so called terrorist leader, he is replaced it is simple as that.