People are here to reinforce their own preconceptions and cognitive dissonance.

reply to post by AceWombat04


Hello there Ace. I doubt what I am going to say will be of any news to you!

What you illustrate here is indicative of such a larger problem. In truth, I feel that it is the core issue facing the world today and that all "problems" are simply resultant of the attitude you describe in your OP. I joined ATS specifically to explore different ways to approach this issue.

Of course, no one would like to think that what you say here applies to them. So, you will mostly get those who simply cant control (for lack of a better word) their reactions, and those that commiserate when it suits them (when such things are being called out, of course).

I have always found it fascinating how close-minded the vast majority of people are when it comes to possibilities. Years ago, I was the same way, until I ended up exploring something which was possible, but I had discredited greatly due to it being improbable. I suppose I learned my lesson from that, however, I obviously was still willing to honestly explore it in the first place.

What we see is the parties involved obsessed with proving their perspective as "right," at the expense of whomever they are arguing with. No cooperation, only conflict. It seems so obvious to me that the more productive way of going about it is understanding that both viewpoints, together, make up the fabric of human-context "reality." We could learn so very much from each other..

In high school, I was generally very open about my own viewpoints. This resulted in literally being laughed at by peers and teachers alike. In hindsight, I find it humorous myself as the points, theories, and concepts I presented are all now becoming widely accepted. But, at the time, it was a formative experience. Those I was speaking with didnt understand what I was saying from my context. Only what it would mean if they were uttering the words themselves. No questions were asked, no one wished to explore. It wasnt even that they thought about it, and then found it nonsense, they didnt even think about it at all. At least not with any form of sincerity.

Honestly, I think ATS may have the highest concentration of those with a spirit of exploration. We are still only speaking of a few people. I have only met two people, outside of ATS, who have a true spirit of exploration (in the context I have presented). I think I have "met" maybe three or so on this site, you being one of them.

When it comes down to it, I dont think people in general really even know how to walk a mile in someone elses shoes, much less do it conceptually or with any semblance of efficacy. Most are more concerned with proving themselves right at the expense of another, than they are with proving themselves wrong with the cooperation of another. I compare this to harmony, rather than duality. Same "objective" thing, but the subjectivity makes quite the difference..

I dont suppose I have a point to this.. Other than to let you know that your perspective, and how you go about communicating it, is greatly appreciated by me personally.

All the best my friend!

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by newcovenant
I say what I think and get out of here.

And yet, all you do is buzz around telling people how you feel about their posts. You take one of the most gentlemanly posters in ATS history and call him racist. He backs down and you provoke him further. You are a compulsive, easily offended, vacuous individual. But what can I expect from an "old" openly partisan Liberal.

No one called him racist. I said lumping all people together is a mistake like racism. Does the truth even matter to you or do you just make things up as you go along? I am contemplative, you cannot offend me and if you knew what vacuous meant you would know the vacuous don't get applause.
I won't pretend to know you. Thankfully I don't, though bombastic, busybody comes to mind.

I was playing devils advocate with the OP - provoking thought with certainly no ill intent and pointing out to the OP some people are here to LEARN. Many engaged in a free and open discussion meant to further intellect and broaden horizons would find this welcome news. Pedantic 's not interested in anyone's opinion but their own might be "provoked" since they are trying to beat home their own point of view. Others need not apply.

I do not know where you came in compounding the misunderstanding, insulting and thinking you are protecting your friend when he and I have no disagreement. You are protecting him from your own vivid imagination and frankly I think it is a little obsessive, we all can see the admiration here and it's really heartwarming but he doesn't need you.

The swipe at my political affiliation is what partisan means so you define the word though why you bring it up is beyond comprehension. The only thing you got right is that I am Liberal - And if you knew what that meant you would be also.

No longer subject to the Crown.

Libertarians like Ron Paul (and I) believe in FREEDOM FROM GOVERNMENT.

What a concept. Liberty. Freedom. The government NOT involved in every intimate aspect of your life and letting mature adults make decisions for themselves. Liberals have too many rights and not enough laws. You are against this?

Conservatives on the other hand are connected to a hierarchy with a definite intention. THEY want to run your life. Take you into war and will sacrifice you without batting an eye. Force feed you genetically modified corn, hook you on fossil fuels, tell you what kind of sex you can have, who you can have it with, require that it be unprotected, require every conception result in a birth, tell you who you can and cannot marry. In other words it is the Conservatives not the liberals who have their nose in everybody else's business. Yeah. This seems to fit you. Don't go calling people Liberal like its a bad thing.

You can call people "old" like it's a bad thing but that only belies your immaturity and lack of experience. Old is what you may never make it to.

This topic has taken an interesting and in my opinion unfortunate turn since I last read it or posted in it.

I would ask that everyone re-read everything I said herein, and do so with an open mind and no emotional connotation whatsoever. It is my hope that you will see that nothing I stated was said with an aim toward offense or condemnation.

That said, I would like to clarify one thing: I never said I was departing ATS. I said I no longer feel capable of contributing. That is to say, I feel my contributions (and those of others) are often moot because of the dynamic I was attempting to describe; that nothing can be contributed to closed minds subject to cognitive dissonance of which some may not even be aware.

I, and all humans, have at some point in time been subject to such unconscious dissonance. There is a difference - at least in my view - between that and willful ignorance or stubbornness. This is why what I said was not intended or, in my view, worded as an attack or particularly blatant generalization. Nevertheless, I did and do stand by everything I said herein, and still hold the opinions I expressed earlier.

Having said of all this, ironically, I actually do have to take some time away from ATS at the moment. My mother is having serious health issues, and I have become her sole care-giver for the time being. As such, I barely have the energy - much less the time - to post here anyway. I just wanted to pop in to say that here, as it was one of the last topics I authored here before all of this started.

For the record, and as always, I wish everyone reading this nothing but the best, and fulfillment in whatever journeys you may find yourselves on. Peace.

You're talking about 'unconscious dissonance', yet asking people who you feel have misjudged your posts to re-read it without attaching any emotional connotations? Like its a simple choice not to do so.

Its true, people do have pre-conceived notions about pretty much everything. From the moment you're born, the world around you is basically a constant inflow of data that help you make sense of the world around you.
On the most basic levels, being able to form these ideas and having them firmly planted in your belief system probably saves your life several times a day. What if you didnt have the pre-conceived idea that walking out into a busy road would end badly?

The key issues here are the ways in which you form these ideas. Which is mostly on an unconscious level.
The unconscious brain does not mind whether the belief is formed on an ethical or logical basis, as it only deals with simple concepts. And once these ideas are formed, your unconscious mind will gladly have the idea reinforced by whatever relevant information it is presented with.
The difficulty comes with the fact that if you accept that you form beliefs without knowing or having control over it, where is your freedom of choice? Which is why, in advertising at least, people are unwilling to accept that they themselves are affected on an unconscious level, but will rationalise it by identifying that there are groups that logically seem more open to it.

That's not to say that you cannot change your pre-conceived ideas. Its just not easy.

Also, how is it that you are able to distinguish between 'unconscious dissonance' and 'wilful ignorance or stubbornness'? You'd be the Albert Einstein of Neuroscience if you're able to do that, considering the current stage of development on the topic.

Well, as I've stressed repeatedly herein, none of us are immune to this, myself included. It's just frustrating at times (hence this being in the rant section... that's what this forum is for, after all, and I'm a human and get frustrated... so sue me.)

Right now, given that I'm having to dress open perirectal abscess wounds 3x daily, for the last two months now, and for the foreseeable future as my mother's doctors can seemingly do little but contradict themselves and flip the script in terms of what they said they would do (looking for fistulae for instance, and then not doing so despite repeat occurances of abscesses which should be a red flag, and is even to me as a layperson,) cognitive dissonance is the last thing on my mind though. Right now all I care about is survival and my own stress level and sanity... which are both rising and rapidly fading respectively.

So when I really take everything into consideration with that newfound perspective (which may itself be an example of cognitive dissonance of course... and I freely acknowledge this so no cheap shots just now, please, people...) I really have no use for this website currently. Or for any reason in the future, at least any future I can see. Every post I make in any topic gets ignored and steamrolled over by people's petty arguments anyway, so what does it matter?

Again, I sincerely wish everyone the best, for whatever that's worth. Please forgive and bear with me as I'm, as should be understandable given the above, coping with a lot of depression and stress and anxiety currently. But I seriously think I really am done with this website now.

Peace to all on whatever journeys you find yourselves on. May they be easier and more fulfilling than mine currently is.

Bye.