How did the 'Estonia' sink 1994?

Not to get you guys off topic but any news on how 1 boy managed to survive,was he saved,has he given his account of the happenings,anyone know whats become of him...

Originally posted by jimstradamus
Not to get you guys off topic but any news on how 1 boy managed to survive,was he saved,has he given his account of the happenings,anyone know whats become of him...

I don´t know who he is except he is Norwegian and was twelve at the time. He was the only child of the survivors. There were 137 survivors, 26 of them were women.

An Estonian investigation today launched massive critics against the previous investigations. They say there are too many unanswered questions and they also came to the conclusion that Estonia could not possibly have sunk the way they say she did. They say alternative (conspiracy) theories should be considered as possible!

Dagens Nyheter: Estnisk kritik mot Estonia-utredning (in Swedish...)

Aftonbladet: Estland kritiserar Estonia-utredningen (in Swedish...)

Svenska Dagbladet: Estland kritiserar haveriutredning (in Swedish...)

MV Estonia's Sinking Animation

A computer animation of how the passenger cruise ferry Estonia sank in a September storm in 1994.

I'm still not convinced that this is the way it happened.





[edit on 2006/10/24 by Hellmutt]

The swedish military didn't send any divers to Estonia after the sinking, in order to investigate the cause of the sinking. And they don't know whether anyone else dived to Estonia either. Someone in Sweden is now demanding some answers, and the military has to answer to this by November 13th. I've only found it in swedish so far. If anyone find one in english, please post it.


Aftonbladet (in swedish...)

I recommend watching this video (google video). It's a german documentary by Jutta Rabe. It's in german but subtitled in english. A very interesting video, about 25 minutes long. Listen to the mayday call from Estonia about one minute into the movie...

Jutta Rabe

Originally posted by Hellmutt

the military has to answer to this by November 13th.

I found a blog in english mentioning some more details about this. Someone has apparently removed some evidence from Estonia, and they claim that only the Swedish or the Finnish military could have done it.

What is the Military Hiding About the Estonia?

October 26th, 2006


The Swedish military is in trouble for covering up something about the 1994 sinking of the ferry Estonia.

Swedish Green Party MP Lars Ångström has pointed to images taken by divers immediately after the September 28 sinking and others taken later. These show something has happened during the period in between, a railing has been cut off. This, he believes, means that someone was secretly diving around the wreck, and seems to have removed something.

Since the location of the wreck was kept secret, only the Swedish and Finnish military, Ängström says, knew where to dive.

Lars Ångström filed a complaint with the Sweden Chancellor of Justice, who called on the military for an explanation. Now the chancellor says the military’s explanation is faulty, and he wants more.

Here's some interesting read. It's about the Estonia accident investigation 1994-1997 and all errors.

Disaster Investigation (The biggest Fraud in maritime History)

They have found that Estonia started to sink before they said she did. And she also sank faster. According to the JAIC report, Estonia started to sink 1:14 and disappeared 1:50. Now they say she started to sink at 1:05 and was gone 1:25!

They also claim she didn't sink because of the bow visor!


Aftonbladet: Estonia sjönk snabbare än man tidigare trott (from 2006-11-01 - in Swedish...)

In the film by Jutta Rabe we can clearly see that there's a large hole in the hull of Estonia. If it wasn't caused by explosives then what did in fact cause the hole? If you want to debunk the explosives theory, I guess you have to explain why there's a hole in the hull. In my opinion, there's no way the hole could have been caused "in a natural way" by the actual sinking of the ship or something like that. Something or someone has put a big hole in the ship. End of story! Please explain it!

Secondly, if someone tried to smuggle military equipment / drugs / alien technology or whatever in the ship and it was sunk by rouge elements, OK, fair enough! I could live with that... It's at least something you could understand. But why is it being covered up by the gubmints of three different countries? What is it they try to hide?

If it now was the Russians who did it, why don't at least the Finns or the Estonians blow the wistle? The Finns and the Estonians don't actually love the Russians for historical and obvious reasons...

Since this is what you could call the Scandinavian 911 and IF there's a gubmint cover up, this could be "the smoking gun".

BTW, thanks for congratulating me for my first post here at ATS...

[edit on 3-11-2006 by IKEA]

Originally posted by IKEA

If it now was the Russians who did it

Maybe, maybe not. I think it's pretty obvious that someone did it. The question is: how did it happen, who is responsible and why did it happen? She could have been sunk by terrorists, deliberately or accidentally. In a highly speculative scenario she could even have been sunk by some gubment. Maybe to stop terrorists from smuggling a suitcase nuke or some other crazy stuff so important that they'd sacrifice lots of innocent people in the process? Or some other gubment trying to stop the "stealing" of some highly advanced secret technology? Or she could even have been sunk by accident or error from some gubment in an operation gone bad? IMO it happened, she was sunk, someone did it and someone is covering it up. Humans are responsible for this, not Mother Nature.

A film made as part of the Estonia investigation has vanished without a trace. The film included pictures of the sunken Estonia and the seabed around the wreck. Somebody doesn't want the truth to be known...

Sweden's foreign minister Carl Bildt does not want to raise the wreck of Estonia. He says that the constant raising of this subject is reopening old wounds for the relatives. A bit strange, since the relatives wants a new investigation and also wants to raise the wreck of Estonia...

Divers hired by the Swedish government were looking for a specific suitcase. This might explain why the Swedish government was so eager to bury the wreck in concrete.

M/S Estonia: Information from Answers.com

According to Rabe, divers hired by the Swedish government (signing contracts swearing lifetime secrecy) spent hours breaking into cabins frantically searching for a black attaché case carried by a Russian space technology dealer, Aleksandr Voronin. She highlighted US interest in various Soviet technology, including nuclear-powered satellites. It has been suggested that panic about the stability of some form of nuclear device is the most likely reason behind the initial Swedish government suggestion of burying the wreck in concrete, a highly unusual proposal for a wreck, reminiscent of Chernobyl's sarcophagus.

emphasis mine

The surviving Estonian crewmembers who later disappeared.

Same source as above

In early 2005, Jutta Rabe reported that a helicopter log book had been found showing that some of the crew of the Estonia, including one of the captains, Avo Piht, had been flown to hospital after the disaster. These nine people, who would be strong eyewitnesses about the condition of and events on the ship, have since disappeared without trace.

The police controlled the diving survey

In the video material it is confirmed by the diving control that the police are in charge, though they instruct the divers to not brake in to any more cabins. This can be seen and heard in the video tape made by Rockwater 04-12-94 marked "tape no. 15". At index 0.25 to 0.35 when the divers investigate certain cabins checking for a suitcase the following can be heard:

[-(transcript)-]

From this tape, in blue above, it is clear that they carefully were investigating the cabins for certain objects, among those suitcases. The first suitcase they found seem to be the one they were looking for. In red, it is clear that the police was in control of the investigation. They were only interested in some cabins, others they did not bother to brake in to. It is also known from survivors that a person during the last trip was having an attache case locked to his arm. This person dressed in a wine red suite was having the dinner together with the crew and he moved unrestricted among the crew. From information regarding other trips with the Estonia this man was seen aboard many times carrying the attache case.

Most interesting is that Alexander and Vassili Voronin both have stated that they together with Vassili's grandfather were staying in a luxury four bed cabin 6320. There is no such cabin. But there is a luxury four bed cabin No: 6230 where Alexander's attache case was found. However, there is a catch, this cabin was Captain Avo Piht's. Therefore I think it is clear that Avo Piht and Voronin had some business together, and that it was of such interest that the police had to investigate and find Voronin's attache case.

Thank you, makeitso, for the tip

It's amazing how peole in here can discuss the most ridiculous theories to exhaustion, yet this thread shows something real and palpable, that is looking more and more like a REAL conspiracy, and yet...

Great job on keeping this subject open!

One on topic question, what are insurance companies doing regarding the Estonia?

Did they press for investigation or not?

Have they pay any form of compensation to anyone?

The people that do these things are at or near the pinnacle of the power structures of their countries. Of course the insurance companies paid up, if they know what's good for them.

Originally posted by starviego
The people that do these things are at or near the pinnacle of the power structures of their countries. Of course the insurance companies paid up, if they know what's good for them.

Not quite. Insurance companies are large , extremely powerful companies. Usually they won the politians, not the otherway around. If you have tried to obtain any large compensation from an insurance companies you know what I'm talking about, how many times do they pay without first going through the courts of law?

Estonia's "military cargo" was known by the investigators but they won't say what the cargo was. They say [color=00FFFF]it did not cause the sinking, but it caused the secrecy afterwards. Evelyn Sepp (Est) said acording to the article: what Russia has left behind in Estonia (country) now belongs to Estonia and it was illegal to sell it or give it away. And it was illegal and dangerous to transport it on a civilian vessel like Estonia. Whatever it was...




Voronin's suitcase?



In swedish only at the moment... (from December 8th 2006)

Dagens Nyheter: Estonias militärfrakt var känd av utredarna (in swedish...)

Svenska Dagbladet: Utredare kände till Estonias last (in swedish...)


Btw, Voronin apparently died in 2002...

source

Fortunately, the three members of the Voronin family survived the sinking, but Aleksandr is said to have died of a heart attack at age 45, in 2002, two weeks after Süddeutsche Zeitung, a leading German newspaper, published details of his weapons and space technology business in connection to the Estonia catastrophe.

As AFP has reported, Rabe points to a group of Russian nationalists from the former Soviet intelligence agencies being behind the sinking.

[edit on 2006/12/10 by Hellmutt]

Estonia demands all investigation material handed over from Sweden. They want to launch an investigation of their own, and they criticizes the swedish investigation. Estonia also want to search for people who might have survived the disaster but who are reported as missing. And they have confirmed that transportation of "military material" happened at least twice.


[color=87CEFF]I could not find any links in english for some strange reason, so here are some scandinavian links instead:


SvD: Estland begär mer Estoniamaterial (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]20 december 2006

Dagbladet Information: Kommission: Hemmelige militærtransporter med "Estonia" (Ritzau) (in danish...) - [color=00FA9A]20 december 2006

Krever innsyn i svensk Estonia-materiale - HegnarOnline (in norwegian...) - [color=00FA9A]19 december

Expressen: Kommission vill söka Estonia-offer (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 December 2006

Norra Västerbotten: Kritik mot Sverige i Estoniarapport (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 December 2006

Barometern Oskarshamns-Tidningen: Kritik mot Sverige i Estoniarapport (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 December 2006

B.T.: Hemmelige militær-transporter med "Estonia" (in danish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 december 2006

Arbetarbladet: Estland förslår ny Estoniautredning (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 december 2006

SvD: Kritik mot Sverige i Estoniarapport (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 december

DN - Nyheter - Estland vill ha all svensk information om Estonia (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]19 december

Aftonbladet: Skandal i estländsk Estoniakommission (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]14 december

SvD: Oenig Estoniakommission i Estland (in swedish...) - [color=00FA9A]14 december