5000 Protesting Police March Through Sydney

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by steveknows

 

Yes I do have an idea, I've already seen afew. It's not a nice sight especially where young children are involved. Most civilians have no idea nor appreciate what the Police have to deal with day to day, the first is always the hardest until they see their first murder scene. It's only natural a Police officer is going to be affected by an accident or murder scene, they too are only human like the rest of us but there comes a time when you just have to get over the scene and move on, another one always comes soon enough and it's never ending. Without being too insensitive, of which is not intended, compare the scene of a serious car crash where one or more have been killed to that of a missile attack killing dozens (like in Iraq, Afghanistan & Libya), suicide bomber attack (like that in Israel, Iraq, Turkey, Russia or India) or a major train crash where many are killed and civilians help in the removal of bodies and the clean up....and they don't receive any support for post-truamatic disorder. I'm not saying our Police officers should'nt receive counselling, absolutely they should whether they like it or not, but over what period of time? You never get the picture of a horrible scene out of your mind but you have to push it aside at some point in time and move on.

edit on 23-11-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

I joined the NSWFB ( now called NSW fire and Rescue) A year after leaving the army. On the day I was asked how I thought I'd go at a serious scene. I said that I hope my training would help but I honestly couldn't say how I'd go. they accepted the answer. I lasted 4 years and got out. I saw some very very bad things but I always fealt for the police who had to go and knock on the door and tell the family.

I know that some police are bad, some don't think, some are lazy and don't care about the truth when they investigate a complaint. But I think for the most part they do a thankless job as do all emergency workers and I think that all emergency workers are under paid and taken for granted especially by the state governments.

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics

5,000 is quite a large number of protesters in one city, I wonder how many arrests were made and how much pepper spray was used?

Total payments for police with psychological injuries such as post-traumatic stress disorder or depression, for example, will be cut from $569,292 to $76,787 under the proposed new scheme, which would be provided by a private insurer.

Wow, half a million dollars for post-traumatic stress or depression! I wonder what sort of timeline is considered 'normal' (if there is one at all) for recovery from these conditions? And how broad the parallels of diagnosis are? It does seem like it could be easily taken advantage of for a quick half a million.

Either way that is a hefty cut in payments but does that give police the authority to make such threats as non-response to 'day to day' incidents such as break and enters, theft etc.? Note they have indicated that they will still respond to life-threatening and emergency situations.

Are they not sworn to protect the citizens of their allocated state? Getting mugged? Take it up with the government.

If this happens, I hope the Sydney writers take advantage and there isn't an unpainted panel (of a train) in the city..but graffiti is another topic.

It is very interesting that the NSW government is proposing to also outsource this aspect to a private firm! What private firm? I'm sure that will be a fair tender process

The police have the power to bring cities, states and countries to a stand still but, if they are not going to intervene and complete their specified duties in a satisfactory manner then who will? Oh yeah, there's always the military.....

Interesting, I doubt that the bill will pass though.

For the record, I am not from Sydney! Or New South Wales! I am a Victorian in Melbourne...can't have me confused for a Sydney boy or New South Welshman for the love of God!

www.smh.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 22/11/11 by Pirateofpsychonautics because: (no reason given)

Most cases od PTSD will last a lifetime. This is serious stuff. People lose families, become homless, suicidal. PTSD is a killer.


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by steveknows


Fire and emergency services.....no different to what the Police have to deal with and I agree with you there. Yes, they are underpaid, no doubts about it but so are alot of people working in other areas of the community ie nurses and carers in nursing homes. Even those working in disability homes are paid minimal wage and may never receive a pay rise over the course of 5+ years. Fruit pickers receive alot more.

With all the training nothing quite comes close to your first accident, murder, fire etc as those in emergency and Police services. Unfortunately, someone has to do the horrible job.

Putting that aside though, there has to be a cut off point of $$$ somewhere along the way. It's a tough call.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by steveknows

 

Fire and emergency services.....no different to what the Police have to deal with and I agree with you there. Yes, they are underpaid, no doubts about it but so are alot of people working in other areas of the community ie nurses and carers in nursing homes. Even those working in disability homes are paid minimal wage and may never receive a pay rise over the course of 5+ years. Fruit pickers receive alot more.

With all the training nothing quite comes close to your first accident, murder, fire etc as those in emergency and Police services. Unfortunately, someone has to do the horrible job.

Putting that aside though, there has to be a cut off point of $$$ somewhere along the way. It's a tough call.

Well Police,Fire, Ambo's and nurses all fall under the banner of emergency services. In fact you interact so much with each other you get to know each other alot of the times especially the Police, Ambo's and firies as you are often on the same shifts and go to the same jobs and I guess the Ambo's would get to know the hospital staff. Hospitals aren't supposed to give out information on the casualties to anyone but the immediate family however they do to the 000 club members when you phone to see how they got on ( and you do). Well they did in the 90's anyway.

I think that members of all the services should be looked after no matter the cost once they've cracked. There's a high rate of PTSD in emergency services and I think the public just wouldn't want to know about it and family can alot of the times be least likey to understand. I remeber when they took the beer fridges out of the fire stations. You'd knock off for the day on the last day of your 4 on and have a beer with your crew and chat. The psychologists were against TPTB doing it as well as trying to stop the practical jokes all to do with image and OH&S. As if the fireman would drink the beers before work The end of day beers were the informal debrief with those who understood as your family didn't and you didn't want to tell your family about your day anyway.

Another example is threatening to not pay compo if you went into a fire without a BA set but sometime there wasn't enough time if there were people trapped in a house or car on fire.. It was the insurance pushing for these changes that could only hurt the person on the ground.

reply to post by steveknows


Gosh, you take me back some years. The Police also had their little beer fridge and quite often played cards after their shift to wind down and relax. Nothing wrong in that!

I know the following is off topic.....

Don't underestimate the families of these services, usually they are far more understanding than you realise but when one of them go home and bash his family, the line is drawn. Nothing worse than a Police officer arresting a civilian for domestic violence while he himself is already getting away with it. Then also, we have afew (and I say only afew) firemen out there putting fires out while they're intentionally lighting them or nursing aids working in elderly nursing homes while their own parent/s are slowly rotting in one.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by steveknows

 

Gosh, you take me back some years. The Police also had their little beer fridge and quite often played cards after their shift to wind down and relax. Nothing wrong in that!

I know the following is off topic.....

Don't underestimate the families of these services, usually they are far more understanding than you realise but when one of them go home and bash his family, the line is drawn. Nothing worse than a Police officer arresting a civilian for domestic violence while he himself is already getting away with it. Then also, we have afew (and I say only afew) firemen out there putting fires out while they're intentionally lighting them or nursing aids working in elderly nursing homes while their own parent/s are slowly rotting in one.

Well to hit your family would have to be already in you. PTSD doesn't turn you into a family basher.

Psychologist are the first to say that family aren't the best when it comes to PTSD simply because they are closest to you and have the liberty if being able to criticises you but having no clue as to what is going on with you.

The firefighters who have been caught lighting fires have been Rual fire service volunteers not professional fireman.


yes I've seen a police car drive past me with the driver not wearing a seat belt. but I guess hypocrisy is about the person and not the occupation.

reply to post by steveknows


Very true to some degree. PTSD can turn a man or woman's mind in ways that is not his/her usual self and in some cases yes it can cause DV. Worst case senario, suicide, as we see among the military returning home. There have been perfectly good men going in to the forces and coming out almost unidentifiable in character and personality. But, at the end of the day we can't afford to take care of them all their lives, thats the cold hard facts. Like I said earlier, there are civilians getting killed or seriously injured on the job in other sectors, their families end up alot worse than the support (both financially and otherwise) Police and Military already receive.

If Police/Fire and Military servicemen don't have their "homes" in order (re insurance policies for any type of injury or death) then they're mad. It's got to be a given before or upon entering the services to cover themselves and their families.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by steveknows

 

Very true to some degree. PTSD can turn a man or woman's mind in ways that is not his/her usual self and in some cases yes it can cause DV. Worst case senario, suicide, as we see among the military returning home. There have been perfectly good men going in to the forces and coming out almost unidentifiable in character and personality. But, at the end of the day we can't afford to take care of them all their lives, thats the cold hard facts. Like I said earlier, there are civilians getting killed or seriously injured on the job in other sectors, their families end up alot worse than the support (both financially and otherwise) Police and Military already receive.

If Police/Fire and Military servicemen don't have their "homes" in order (re insurance policies for any type of injury or death) then they're mad. It's got to be a given before or upon entering the services to cover themselves and their families.

Where are you from? How many Australian returned soldiers of late have killed themselves? No PTSD does not cause domestic violence. If a person who suffers PTSD is domestically violent then they're prone to domestic violence already and just happen to suffer PTSD.

What PTSD will do is make a person less tolerant so if a person with PTSD is started on by a person unkown to them then there's a chance that that person with PTSD will go ape but it does not mean that the person with PTSD would hurt their loved ones because of PTSD.

You're not sounding like someone who knows things from the siren side of it. what I've been reading it seems to me that you don't have a grasp on this subject. Sorry but you just don't seem to have the projection of a 000 club member.

reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics


Haha, so the police are finding out that they are also vulnerable and thier families at risk. Or will tptb bend over for the police so they will continue to clamp down on the public, I suppose we need to watch this space.

If TPTB lose credibility in the police force then they will be bought down unless the military get involved.

reply to post by steveknows


PTSD is common among many veterans arriving back from Iraq and Afghanistan, much of it swept under the carpet. Every week one or more American veterans after coming home from Afghanistan are committing suicide. If you would like the link, I can pass it on for you.

As for our Australian veterans, there's very little if much at all from the media about them after the return home except for the rare story like that of an ex SAS officer who held up the Sydney Harbour Bridge. What the media did hide from the public domain his wife and children went in to protective custody not long before the incident.

Among those with PTSD, some have committed DV who had never shown violent tendencies before. This is already on record. Now whether the cause is the PTSD itself or the medication they are on, who knows. In my opnion is probably a little of both. There's plenty of information and articles over the net about it.

You WILL be shocked what goes on behind closed doors of the Police and Military.

Four years stint in the Fire Service? Try 32 years in the Police Force and 3 generations in the Military! I think I know something, don't you?