Anyone else notice the sun rising too far to the East? Too quickly

Originally posted by tovenar

What I see is a number of people who've had no particular interest in observational astronomy, who have finally noticed the changes of the seasons.

I've been observing the sky, daily, since I was in grade school. I've built my own astrolabes and sextants, and I currently own one of the best versions ever made. I last used it in september, at the equinox; the sun was right on time, according to my ephemeris from the U.S. Naval Observatory.

I'm not the only person on the planet with a sextant, either. Practically every private boat-owner who does more than day cruising trains in the use of a sextant. Not to mention the 20 or 30 really first rate astronomical observatories in the US and Great Britain, if they had to point their telescopes in a novel direction this week, I'm sure we'd hear about it. But nothing.

Heck, I'd expect "Astronomy" magazine to make it a cover story about it, at the very least.

But, by all means, let's take the word of someone who hasn't actually tried to MEASURE the difference. Their word counts for everything, while no scientist, amateur or professional, matters in the slightest.

after all, this IS the internet.



[/sarcasm]

You are correct.

Everything is absolutely fine.

Now please... let's stop making these crazy claims... everyone just go back to work, or go back to watching t.v. or whatever you normally do to occupy your time

Originally posted by Skorpiogurl

You are correct.

Everything is absolutely fine.

Now please... let's stop making these crazy claims... everyone just go back to work, or go back to watching t.v. or whatever you normally do to occupy your time

I have no problem with crazy claims.

I also have no problem going with evidence that shatters them with hammer-like profundity, in a fell swoop.

And I'm also fine with people tipping over the assumptions of the status quo. But doing so involves more than claiming a shift on a planetary scale, because someone "feels" wierd, but without one photograph, without one measurement, shows anything but the fact that they were feeling weird, and not paying attention to their universe until they felt weird.

Science assumes that you are not a privileged observer. That mean that if something feels weird....


....it's probably just you. And not the universe.

Originally posted by loki41872
reply to post by Trublbrwing

 

I have been an amature astronomer for years. I can determine to within a few minutes what time it is by looking at the stars at night. I watch the skies ALL the time. Stellarium, and other star guide programs are not wrong. There is nothing wrong with the sun, moon, stars or planets. They are right where they are supposed to be, when they are supposed to be.

If I doubt my calculations, my polar-aligned Goto star tracking mount confirms them.

Everything is right where it should be.

I don't know why so many people think they are seeing something wrong with the skies, but it's not there.

It is a well known fact that early astronomy and tracking software had serious flaws, the image on your computer seldom matched the view above your head. In the ultimate paradox the software required frequent and timely updates to maintain it's predictive capabilities. Perhaps "Everything is right where it should be" only applies to recently updated images?
Reflect upon your own closing remark and ask yourself how and why "so many people" are throwing flags on the field.

We are a dynamic solar system not a static one. Every thing is in motion as we move through space. Even our earth is not static, it spins and wobbles it real time. Yes every change that we experience to our sun is real and relevant to what happens right now. So yes you are all correct in see what you see and what you are experiencing.

It's called live visible data, that you can confirm with others that have experienced the same thing.

another thing that you should be aware of, is that the time of ACTUAL sunrise can vary... It is caused by an effect called "atmospheric refraction". That is why you NEVER, EVER use stars close to the horizon for navigation, or for actual astronomical observations. Have you noticed that sometimes the sun or the moon appear flattened when it is close to the horizon? That is also caused by atmospheric refraction. Sometimes it can cause an object that is below the horizon to appear above the horizon, because it bends the light. The amount of atmospheric refraction is dependent on a lot of factors, i.e. temperature, air pressure, humidity, etc.... but the following links explain it a lot better than what I can without reading up on it again. (I am not that young anymore, so my brain isn't as sharp as what it used to be )

if you live far north (or south) you can even get the "Novya Zemlya" effect, that greatly exceeds the average 2 minute variance, a rough calculation shows that the sun can rise 30 minutes earlier!!!!!

en.wikipedia.org...
mintaka.sdsu.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Trublbrwing
It is a well known fact that early astronomy and tracking software had serious flaws, the image on your computer seldom matched the view above your head. In the ultimate paradox the software required frequent and timely updates to maintain it's predictive capabilities.

Oh really? Why then does my astronomy software agree with the data published over a hundred years ago by Simon Newcomb in his book "The Elements of the Four Inner Planets and the Fundamental Constants of Astronomy"?

Perhaps "Everything is right where it should be" only applies to recently updated images?

No, in fact my own telescope's software is permanently encoded and cannot be updated without physically removing and replacing the memory chips, yet the GOTO works just fine. Furthermore, my own measurements of the positions of the sun, moon, and other planets have all shown that everything is right where it should be, and as I just said, the software I use agrees with Newcomb's data from over a hundred years ago, so it's not being altered to "hide" any changes.

reply to post by ngchunter


Then your software is wrong and so are your calculations.. This has happened before .. ( Human error )

reply to post by CherubBaby


I've always wondered why my go-to telescope and my manual telescope showed things exactly to be where they are supposed to be. For those of you that don't know, using a manual telescope on a polar mount isn't the easiest thing... You first have to convert local time to local sidereal time (star time), AND then, read up the 1950's (or 2000 coordinates) from a star catalogue, do a lot of number crunching to correct for abberations, precession, etc, and after a lot of intensive time you point you telescope, and the star is still there where all the numbers shows it to be (OK, nowadays I am lazy, so I use my computer, with software I wrote myself!!!!!), but in the olden days I did all the number crunching myself manually, and everything still is exactly where they are supposed to be. (OK, sometimes they are not, but then, I would go back to what I entered, and ALWAYS it was me entering a number wrong, lol). The bottom line is, if the earth's axis has shifted, or the earth is rotating faster/slower, or the earth is rotating faster/slower around the sun, my telescopes wouldn't have pointed at the object I wanted it to point....

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Then your software is wrong and so are your calculations.. This has happened before .. ( Human error )

Then show me where I'm wrong:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Otherwise, all you have is an extreme bias to just blatantly assume I must be wrong. I've done the measurements, I've provided the evidence here, now where am I wrong?

I'v been thinking the sun rise/set was a bit odd since the beg of summer... and the moon and stars as well.
Also there were the leaves turning orange and falling mid July...

I'v mentioned it to people and nobody seems to see it... I don't really know how to explain it, or if it's even really off... But I know to trust my instincts, and there's something telling me that something is definitely up...

I'v mentioned it to people and nobody seems to see it... I don't really know how to explain it, or if it's even really off... But I know to trust my instincts, and there's something telling me that something is definitely up...

This is the basic problem I am having. The things I've noticed are not huge events and are not consistent. They are small and random so it's hard to point things out as they happen. And yeah, it's mostly based on how I feel these days. Unfortunately, you can't really prove feelings

I would suggert you just keep a simple record on your pc. Don't make it complicated. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. Thanks for the post .. Thats what I do. and I try to have fun with it..

reply to post by Skorpiogurl


You could learn astronomy and then test those "feelings" with actual measurements of the positions of the sun, moon, and planets. You'll find they're all where they should be to an angular resolution far higher than anything you can perceive.

Originally posted by ngchunter
reply to post by Skorpiogurl

 

You could learn astronomy and then test those "feelings" with actual measurements of the positions of the sun, moon, and planets. You'll find they're all where they should be to an angular resolution far higher than anything you can perceive.

There is a feature up up in the garden of a manor house near where I live, and on the days surrounding the summer solstice a shadow is cast onto a marble board which forms a picture of a horse.

This was built in the 1800's.

Still worked completely perfectly this summer solstice.

Thus proving the sun is exactly where it should be.

reply to post by CherubBaby

Hello, just wanted to comment on this past winter solstice. 12/19/11-12/20/11 I leave work at 4:30 and it was dark..... On 12/21/11 I left work at 4:30 and as soon as I walked outdoors I noticed how light it was. It felt like it went from the dark to more light at the end of the day too quickly. Anyone else notice this?

Just looking at the sun.

im sure its inside out,

reply to post by isthatright

I know some people may think its a joke, but it was strange and I noticed it. I did'nt tell anyone what I noticed because I was afraid people would think I was a little weird, but low and behold I just recently found out that my roommate noticed it too as he was leaving work that day..... hmmmm....

reply to post by CherubBaby


Hi there and thank you for your post, it have me the motivation to post myself
I'm down in cape town south Africa and I too am noticing something strange. The sun finished setting completely at approximately eight pm and now at twelve thirty in the morning in the opposite of the horizon te sun appears to be rising. That is approximately 3 hours of dark. This can't be normal and if I share this locally they will think I am mad but it is nice to know someone else feels the same way.
Thanks and good night
Solarmax
:-)

Originally posted by solarmax
reply to post by CherubBaby

 

Hi there and thank you for your post, it have me the motivation to post myself
I'm down in cape town south Africa and I too am noticing something strange. The sun finished setting completely at approximately eight pm and now at twelve thirty in the morning in the opposite of the horizon te sun appears to be rising. That is approximately 3 hours of dark. This can't be normal and if I share this locally they will think I am mad but it is nice to know someone else feels the same way.
Thanks and good night
Solarmax
:-)

Well Solarmax, shouldn't this be all over the news where you are if it was really occurring? I mean, 3 hours of night suddenly and you're the only one so far to document it? Oh dear...

I'm in California right now, and even though it's raining it is still daylight outside. How can this be? The sun also rising elsewhere? Sacre bleu, Beetlegeuse has gone kablooey!