Who Were the Ancient Megalithic Builders?

Who were the Ancient Megalithic Builders?

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Webster

Definition of MEGALITH: a very large usually rough stone used in Prehistoric cultures as a monument or building block

Welcome again to my way of thinking...

As many of you already know I do not believe in a strictly linear progression of mankind's long climb up the ladder of development towards modern civilization. I believe there have been a few set backs along the way. This thread will once again be an attempt to show how our fact based history could be viewed from a completely different and possibly explosive angle. This has been a long time coming. We will be covering a lot of ground and tweaking many long held beliefs. Some will be amazed others will scoff and some will be downright angry and dismissive. Fine, So be it.

We will be on a exploratory journey of self discovery. I find this slightly different version of our history thrilling, I hope you do so as well. Or, at least find it entertaining. We "Modern man" who are so proud of ourselves with our modern technology and accomplishments still do not have a full and complete picture of where we came from. As long as there have been humans we have questioned who we are and where we're headed. We will one day get a better and much more complete handle on this question.

We presently reach beyond our star and feel we are supreme in our accomplishments. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9635754e0d29.jpg[/atsimg]

Yet when it comes to our own past and history we are still ignorant of much of the true nature of our inheritance. There is a history before the history we are aware of...

This will be a Reinterpretation of known Historical, Archeological as well as Genetic facts:

Presented in my usual outside the box approach. This is the first time in human history that we now have the science and technology to begin fully explore this area through the use of the sciences such as Genetic DNA mapping, Archeology and Geology and many of the others. However sometimes, those sciences come into conflict with each others findings. Such as the argument of the age of the Sphinx between some Geologists and Egyptology etc.

Our true history is infinitely more complex and interesting than many would like to give it credit for. There were literally Millions and Millions who were born, lived and died before recorded history. I'm sure this journey will be very intriguing to some while others will consider it nothing more than one mans imaginative version of events. As always, I'll let you the reader decide for yourselves.

I know that the DNA in my body genetically ties me to a wide spectrum of our human family which includes ancient Africa, Neanderthals and you. I had to stop and think about how this complex mixture could have happened. Being of mainly Native North American Indian descent. I know now through archeological physical evidence and genetics that my people are closely related to those who traveled across the now submerged land bridge between the Old World and New World in prehistoric times.

This doesn't bother me as much as it does some of those in my family who believe in their long held native faith. Speaking of which I'm not discussing the history of any-one country or culture or perceived race. This should be understood. I'm talking about a period on Earth that goes far enough back before there were countries and borders. Before Ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia-Sumeria, the Indus valley or even ancient China and Japan declared themselves as such. A period in time where there were people living along and migrating through those now submerged ice age coast lines. If, as it is presently accepted that modern man had interbred with Neanderthal and Denisovians wouldn't there have been a cross over period producing a half-breed/hybrid species? One which would have had possibly physical characteristics and mental attributes of both?

I'm not attempting to say they would have been a "Super Species" but something not quite us and not quite them. Also depending on where they lived they could have had varying physical characteristics and mental attributes of both to varying degrees.

In other words, Not all would have looked nor acted the same.

Some groups may have had an increase in strength from our "Neanderthal/Denisovian" lineage coupled with a greater mental capacity of "Homo Sapien". When could this have possibly happened? What would have been their abilities? Seems like reasonable questions and possibilities. One, which I believe Modern Academia hasn't addressed nor really looked into. I'm not stating this as a fact, just asking some questions and posting my opinion

From what I've read. If a skeleton is found which appears to be more "Neanderthal-ish" then it is classified as either being an "Early or Late Neanderthal". However, if it is closer in appearance to Modern Humans then it is classified as either being an "Early or Late Homo Sapien" no further explanation is generally given. Before some jump in and ruin my bowl of Cheerios they'll first have to admit that the majority of the time no DNA is taken [If even available] to prove the Skeleton is actually closer to one group or the other Genetically speaking.

I've been looking at ancient monuments all my life and like many here have been trying to figure out just how did ancient man build on such a grand scale. I've read and heard all the various theories everything from Aliens to Giants. I'd like to propose a third possible scenario based on more down to Earth possibilities. One which will be just as controversial and hard to believe as some of the more fringe scenarios. But this one will based on facts and reality coupled with assumptions and speculations.

The fact is that a large percentage of Modern man [All those of None sub-saharan African and some Australian Aboriginal decent] carry within their Genetic makeup either Neanderthal or Denisovian DNA. Now these two lines left Africa hundreds of thousands of years prior to Homo Sapien's journey. No. I'm not saying these ancient monuments are that old. Nor am I saying that Neanderthal or Denisovians built them on their own. I believe that there were periods where there were a crossover species, half breed "hybrid" if you'd like, between a pure Neanderthal/Denisovians and Early Homo Sapiens. One which had a much stronger physique than does modern man and probably had the mental faculties of his Homo Sapien brothers.

Let's look at some of the major differences between Neanderthals and Modern Homo Sapien skulls.
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If you notice. The Neanderthal [On the right of the above image] had a sloping forehead, larger brow ridge, larger nasal opening, larger/rounder eye socket with a weaker less pronounced chin AND a slightly "elongated appearing skull". [That aspect we will revisit a bit later in the thread] While on the Left Modern Homo Sapian. The question that arises in my mind is if Homo-Sapian interbred with them then diluted their lines out of existence then wouldn't we find some residual evidence in present day groups of people who may show signs or remnants of both skull types? Have we seen such a group of people in our recent past?

Was there a crossover/halfbreed hybrid period between Neanderthal and Homo-Sapiens? I think there is some rather interesting circumstantial evidence that points in the direction. When we place known Neanderthal sites on a map of Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean then overlap the earliest known Homo Sapian sites we see a rather interesting correlation between the two in my opinion. I created the following animation overlapping some of the better known sites of both.

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Now, I know many will simply say that those areas were the most desirable because of the availability of food sources such as big game and or fertile naturally growing plants etc. Well, we now know that Modern Europeans have a slightly higher than average percentage of Neanderthal DNA. Is it so hard to believe that there was a crossover breed which lived for a period of time in the area? Then later as more and more "Modern Man" migrated out of Africa further diluting the crossover/half breed hybrid to the point where there wouldn't be much left as far as physical appearance goes?

When many think of modern man's history we look back at all our great accomplishments. We feel supreme and feel that we have conquered the planet. Which for all practical purposes we have. Causing a lot of damage along the way. [But that's the topic of another thread] There have been two things we have carried with us along the way.

• Religion: Attempting a greater spiritual connection with our individually perceived creator, ourselves and the world around us.
  
  
• Science: Attempting a greater understanding of who we are, where we came from and how the world around us works.
  

Side Note on Evolution and Creationism:

I'm not trying to "Debunk" both the Bible or Darwinism but both seem to be missing the point.

If there is a God and over half the planet believes there is. [Myself included] and most religions of the world perceives him/it as a spiritual being and if he made us in his image wouldn't that be more along the lines of a spiritual nature rather than a physical one?

Darwinism tells us something along the lines of survival of the fittest and that the superior traits for any given environment would become dominate and win out over lesser ones. Then if that's the case why didn't the Neanderthals win out? They were physically stronger, used tools and fire and had larger brains.

So in my mind Science needs to consider all aspects of those who genetically contributed to our development and include their history as an addition to "Homo-Sapiens" and Religion needs to expand itself to include our physical anthropological history since "God" and his gift is of a spiritual nature in my opinion.

As I stated earlier Science in one way shape or form and Religion have been with us since the earliest days of our existence and especially shown themselves in the earliest forms of monument building. If standing stones and all other Megalithic site are not all "Astronomical" markers of some sort then the are classified as some sort of "Religious" site.

I find that rather interesting for if a site is not based on "Science" then it gets classified as a "Religious" site. I believe that in Human history the best periods are when both Science and Religion come together and cooperate. [An ancient now forgotten Golden Age?]

Now that may seem overly simplistic to some but by the time we are half way through the thread one should have a better understanding of where I'm headed. What are the Earliest Megalithic buildings we find? Well, we find two really. We find massive multi-ton Standing stones [Some are astronomically aligned] and some period later we find Dolmens. [Which some are thought to be burial sites] They're everywhere...

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Now for those who are less than familiar I'll be posting some images from around the globe and I'll be attempting to connect some of the better known as well as the often over looked aspects/locations of real human history. In my mind the answer to who were the ancient monument builders was right under our noses the whole time. We just needed to stop looking at it from such an arrogant and self absorbed modern mans myopically viewed stance!

Many are already familiar with the Standing stones of Europe and the UK but what many do not realize that there can be found similar standing stones all over the world. Let us look first not in Europe or the UK but over in Turkey. By now many have already seen the mysterious and very ancient site over at Gobekli Tepe temple. We should stop here and really think long and hard about what Modern Academia has been telling us. Turkey has becomes the primer in disclosing a massive paradox in my opinion. Now, in Turkey we find Dolmens as well. We are told that they are from anywhere between 4 to 6 thousand years old or from 2,000 o 4,000 B.C. I want that to sink in...

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Meanwhile, also in Turkey we find another much more Ancient site of much higher quality and complexity from 9 to 10 thousand B.C. We are to believe that humans in the region turned their backs on whatever they were doing and slowly over the next 6 to 7 thousand years reverted back to moving much heavier and bulky megalithic stones and slabs around to build basic rudimentary structures?

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OK so that right there proves that at least in this general area human development was not linear. Or was it? Have the Archeologist gotten the age and time line wrong? I say that's a very real possibility. In any case, I can go away from it happy. Because on the one hand if the people of Gobekli Tepe simply got bored and walked off the job letting go of all they worked so hard to accomplish and create to simply fall back to the basic Dolmen construction without any art work or imagination in design then that proves a non linear progression of development. If on the other hand however, they for some unknown reason died out after the ancient temples were built and later buried [For reasons unknown] then that proves that until it was discovered it was "lost or unknown" which opens up the possibility of the still to come discoveries of other sites that will WOW Academia and hopefully make them reexamine the data.

When I first saw Gobekli Tepe I was amazed not because of it's purported age but to my eyes it reminded me of another ancient site. A quick comparison of the two.

Gobekli Tepe

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MALTA: Mnajdra Temple

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Now, I'm not saying there are any direct connections between the two however one has to admit it does raise some rather interesting questions about it's age. On the island of Malta we find many rather interesting structures. Here again we find a paradox. Some of the sites on Malta show several types of construction. For example, On the one hand we find very large huge rough cut megalithic stones similar to the ones we find all over Europe next to what appears to be well thought out cut blocks and slabs stones similar to Dolmens found elsewhere.

Malta

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Anybody else notice the first picture posted above from Malta? It and the surrounding stones are very reminiscent of Gobekli Tepe. Still, could be simply a coincidence or my over active imagination eh? Moving on. Elsewhere again, we find smooth cut and placed giant stone slabs very similar to those Dolmens found all over the UK, Europe etc...

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So if the interbreeding process is true and most of Europeans and Asians received a large percentage of their Neanderthal/Denisovian DNA that means the possibility of a crossover species existed, How strong would they have been? Just how strong were Neanderthals?

How strong would a Neanderthal be compared to a human

"Try these physical characteristics on for size:

• For starters, massive, broad shoulders are indicated by a scapular breadth that is about 8% larger than their modern human contemporaries. (Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans did live side by side for several millennia.)

• Muscle attachments for the pecs were enormous, up to twice the size of today’s average.

• Neanderthals had shorter, wider humeri (upper arms), which combined with the shoulders, suggests substantial rotator cuff muscularity. And, get this; the bones in their forearms were actually bowed from muscles that must have powered a grip that could crush stone.

• All of this upper body musculature was anchored on a solid foundation of massive quads that specialized in explosive power and side-to-side movement."

"This would have made Neanderthal fingers and thumbs upwards of twice the strength of modern humans" Lumely-Woodyear 1973;

"Thus Neanderthals were probably better at throwing (Debenath and Tournepiche 1992) than their modern contemporaries"

Would a possible Cross breed/hybrid period result in a people who were strong enough to drag Huge multi-ton megalithic blocks of stone and have the mental capacity to engineer some of the more elaborate sites? Many of the earliest Megalithic sites contain such massive stones that we in the modern world struggle with idea of cutting, moving and placing such monstrously sized stones when we think about how primitive they were supposed to be at the time. Many simply assume it had to be the work of Giants or Aliens etc.

But were they?

Could this "Intermediate Hominin" who were a cross between Neanderthal with his great strength and Homo Sapiens advanced intellect could they have created some of the earliest structures? I think so. Why not? It's just as valid as any other theory. We have Geneticists telling us that our forebears interbred with Neanderthals/Denisovians. [We just need to find the evidence] Theoretically, they would have had much greater strength than we do presently.

Maybe....

This is where things may get a bit confusing for some. There was once a previously perceived third separate line known as Cro Magnon. Which is no longer considered a separate line but rather is now classified by many as simply being and early Homo Sapien. I think what Cro Magnon really was was a half breed/crossover hybrid between Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens.

Science shouldn't have been so quick to do away with Cro Magnon mans possible unique contributions to our earliest periods of neolithic/megalithic developments in Europe and possibly elsewhere IMO. Is it possible he was simply the result of a Genetic cross-over connection or possibly an [intermediate period] between Neanderthal and Modern man?

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If this is a real possibility, what physical characteristics as well as mental capacity would they have had? We know that Neanderthals actually had a larger brain size and were much stronger than modern man and [we know from the fossil record] Cro Magnon was around for a good period of time. Could some isolated groups of these intermediate/cross over hybrid species have contributed to earliest megalithic standing stones and temples?

What if they/we had for a brief period in our history of an increase in both physical ability as well as mental reasoning and capacity? No, I'm not saying we were super humans with Clairvoyance and or the power of thought over matter.[another topic for another thread] But rather, an intermediate period of developmental advancements over both the Late Neanderthals and the Earlier Homo Sapiens in the region. They would have had the best of both worlds so to speak. Some might ask: Then if hey had the such an advantage over modern man then where are they today? I would say consider the following. This cross-over species would have been diluted over time as more and more Homo Sapiens were introduced into their blood line. Resulting with what we have become today.

I speculate that in theory it all fits. I think the main stumbling block for some is Modern mans ego.

Neanderthal man skull from La Ferrassie, France [Left] and a Cro-Magnon Man skull excavated from Carmel, Israel [Right] Notice how they have lost the frontal cranial slope of a Neanderthal but still retain somewhat of a large brow ridge?














I don't know about you but when I view the images of the Giant stone of Baalbek it just fires my imagination. Now there are those that believe what modern Academia claims that they were cut and moved to create a giant foundation for the Temple of Jupiter by Roman Emperor Augustus in 27 BC or there about.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/95017cb1cbf4.jpg[/atsimg]

I however am starting believe [as do many others] that the Romans reclaimed and constructed on top of a much older prehistoric platform built by some of those Megalithic builders of old. Many sites around the world have been reclaimed and recycled so to speak by the newer generations, cultures and or civilizations. Look all over Mexico for example, we find land and temples often reclaimed then built on top of the older more ancient ruins etc.

I think this process of reclamation occurred world wide and not just in the new world.

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If you look closely you'll notice the foundation stones are massive. You'll also notice half way up one side there is a huge block then no more. The rest of the foundation is filled in with much more manageable smaller stones. I believe we can clearly see two different types of construction. How could they have moved such large blocks? It would have taken hundreds if not thousands to haul such a block. [Not impossible by Roman Standards] but still. Now if the stone and the foundation of the Temple are from a much older more ancient period then it is possible that a half-breed/cross over version of Homo Sapien with his advantage over modern mans strength would have required a much smaller work force. Even if they had a larger amount of manpower the more the better and the easier IMO.

Well again, this is all fine and dandy but not all Ancient Megalithic sites are in and around Modern day Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean. We find standing stones all over the world. While researching an earlier thread on the subject I was surprised to find out that there were actually more Dolmens in Korea than anywhere else in the world.

The more I looked into our past for possible signs in the earliest forms of art the more my imagination took over. These could all simply be artistic representation of how they saw themselves or their gods. The thing to keep in mind while viewing these is to look for any number of combination's of the following.

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Larger than average eyes, larger than average noses, either no or sloped forehead, weak chins and larger and more distinct eyebrow ridges.

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Neanderthal/Homo-Sapien crossbreed or an ancient
Star Trek Ferengi?

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As I've said, could simply be my overactive imagination and coincidence in their artistic self representations.

Since we are speculating:

What other locations around the Globe can we find possible artistic representation of a possible older line? In Ancient China there can be found ancient paintings which seem to show some rather peculiar physical traits which can be seen and interpreted as possible signs of or knowledge of "Other Types" of people and in fact may depict certain [Albeit diluted] physical characteristics among those of their own ancient cultures.

Again pure speculation...
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What do we find from Ancient Egypt? More speculation on my part. The Egyptians loved and more often than depicted symmetry in their art, figurines and statues. What if any possible examples can we find there? Could again simply be a combination of my over active imagination and coincidence.

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A Perspective on Evolution and Creationism:

It seems to me that both Darwinism and Creationism are both unwitting partners in a Conspiracy of sorts.

In Darwinism we are told that we "Evolved" to where we are today "Modern Man". And that everything of intelligence we find in the fossil record belongs to "Homo-Sapien - Modern man". While anything lesser belongs to the other non-homo Sapien lines.

In Religion, God created "Man" in his image. I'm assuming here from what I've read they are referring to "Homo-Sapien aka Modern man" While anything lesser that belongs to the other non-homo sapian lines are to be ignored.

Meanwhile those other lines, Were tool users, Made use of fire, Lived in a family unit. Some buried their dead with signs of a belief in a after life [Religion].

Now I'm not saying Darwin's evolution and Creationism are both wrong. I am saying however that neither give the other lines any credit. Yet Genetically speaking we are carrying those other lines contributions that make us who we are today. So, we CAN claim their history and possible accomplishments as our own. Just like I can claim my Great Great Grandfathers even though we don't look anything alike nor ever met.

Ancient Jomon:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f19e45dd2976.jpg[/atsimg] We cannot discuss Ancient Korea, Japan or even China without first mentioning the Ancient people known as the Jomon. Jomon Culture (ca. 10,500–ca. 300 B.C.)

The Jomon period, which encompasses a great expanse of time, constitutes Japan's Neolithic period. Its name is derived from the "cord markings" that characterize the ceramics made during this time. Jomon people were semi-sedentary, living mostly in pit dwellings arranged around central open spaces, and obtained their food by gathering, fishing, and hunting. While the many excavations of Jomon sites have added to our knowledge of specific artifacts, they have not helped to resolve certain fundamental questions concerning the people of the protoliterate era, such as their ethnic classification and the origin of their language.

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Korea Prehistory

The Korean Academy of North America discovered ancient human fossils originating from about 100,000 BC in the lava at a stone city site in Korea. Fluorescent and high-magnetic analysis indicate the volcanic fossils may be from as early as 300,000 BC.[4] The best preserved Korean pottery goes back to the paleolithic times around 10,000 BC, and the Neolithic period begins around 6000 BC.

Korean Dolmens

The 'Ganghwa Dolmens' Korea has the highest concentration of dolmens in the world, with over 30,000, possessing between 40% and 50% of the worlds total. The island of Ganghwa contains several dolmens, one of which has the biggest recorded stone in South Korea and measures at 2.6 x 7.1 x 5.5 meters. (101.53 m³) The Ganghwa dolmen are accredited with capstones weighing 300 tons (28) at Gochang.

When discussing the Ancient Jomon many have their opinions [Usually Based on modern day nationalistic values] as to their source of origin. Below is a map showing how the Chinese view their possible migration. I'll point out that In My Opinion the Chinese are demonstrating their usual "Chinese version of events" If you'll notice how they attempt to show their migration to Japan that completely bypasses mainland China?

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That over simplistic [Nationalistic Chinese] view of events seems ridiculous to me. During the period in question there were no national boundaries. No artificial lines drawn on maps. This is a period in time way before even ancient China existed. It seems to me that if there were an ancient group of fairly sophisticated builders that they would have migrated as they saw fit. Following along rivers to the oceans and hunting along animal migration routes etc. I suspect they took a route through what is modern day Vietnam/Laos out to the now submerged area in South East Asia.

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I have to stop here and mention the possible prehistoric site recently found off of one of Japans southern most island. First off it is not shaped like a "pyramid" I wish people would stop referring to it as such. Second, It was not "Built" by anyone it is mostly a large single site of living rock. If anything, It was possibly carved on or used during a prehistoric period in time when the location was above water. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence for this activity. So for me the site should be recognized as an early sign of Ancient man in the area.
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We do not know who lived along those now submerged coastlines. This is probably how in my opinion we find Denisovian DNA among the Melanesian of the southwest Pacific islands. There is a rather interesting group who were the original peoples of both Japan and the southern most part of Korea known presently as the Ainu.

Ancient Japanese Ainu:

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These people moved northward from Southern Japanese islands during the last of the Ice age melt off. They were known for looking very non-Japanese and almost "European/Caucasian" and were known for being very physically "Robust". They however were not of European/Caucasians descent.

I speculate that they may have been somehow connected to the Denisovians of Siberia. The modern day remnant population in Japan [And a much lesser extent Korea] do have a larger than average genetic connection to modern day Siberians. However they are/were distinct. Here is a rough comparison between the Ainu and a typical "Modern" Japanese/Korean.

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How did Neanderthals compare to Modern man again?

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Modern day Japanese Ainu descendant

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Doesn't look very Japanese now does he? Yet his DNA does not match Modern Europeans either. I wonder if his lineage was traced far enough back would it connect with an earlier line which migrated through Asia to the Pacific in prehistoric times? Then had to migrate north to higher ground to Japan, Korea and Early China as their land flooded out during the last of the ice age melt off.

Moving along...

I've often wondered what the earliest possible pre-historic Pacific Ocean traveling race may have looked like? Were they similar in appearance with the Ancient Japanese Ainu? Were they related to the Melanesian which show Denisovian DNA Genetic connection from Siberia? Were they simply their own isolated and now extinct genetic offshoot which sailed across the oceans? Can we possibly find some stylized art created by those [Historically known] Ancient Pacific Polynesians who still remembered those who came before them and reflected that knowledge in their art and carvings?

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Easter Island:

What if, In prehistoric history the Pacific was explored and colonized by these possible ancient hybrids? We do find megalithic structures throughout the Pacific island chains. Yet, often times the Islander themselves clearly state that they were built by some previous ancient people from long ago. Now I'm going to stop right here and clearly state. Many of the ancient monuments were in fact built by very well known cultures and people in recorded history.

But, Were they all?

A little known fact about Easter Island is that besides the well known statues there are also Giant cut and placed megalithic blocks which were [in my opinion] from a much earlier period in their history. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7e7aa3331285.jpg[/atsimg]
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We are to believe that these people spent all their time carving, cutting and moving giant statues and blocks, yet lived in Huts and later in Caves when a civil war broke out between the islands original "Two different Types" of peoples. [Think about that one for a second] What if those early historically known islanders came across a few older statues perched on some of those possibly prehistoric blocks and emulated what they came across and started carving their own? There does seem to be a much larger percentage of lower quality smaller statues from a much more recent period.

OR...

What if the later historically known Polynesian Sailors came across a remnant population of a much older sea fairing race who most of them went on to South America whose descendants left their mark in places such as Machu Pichu etc. [Which when asked by the Spanish if they, the Incas built them. The Incas would laugh and state very clearly that they were from a period ancient even to them.]

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Keeping with this line of thought those earlier people later through the descending generations aggregated down to a more modern appearance say the [Cloud People] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a5f82a862808.jpg[/atsimg]

Who were the people the Ancient Incas fought great battles with before they finally succumbed to the diseases that the Spaniards brought with them in their conquest of the new world...

How would an ancient crossbreed/hybrid this far East appear?

Well again one would assume they would have slight mixtures of features of both Neaderthals and modern man. They would theoretically have a slightly raised brow ridge, possibly larger than normal nose and maybe even an extended rear cranial lobe.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f8cb6a5030a.jpg[/atsimg]

It seems that the above reconstructed image of the controversial Kennewick man recently found in the North West US in the State of Washington fits the bill nicely. Many have commented on how when the reconstruction is viewed from the front he resembles Patrick Stewart the actor of Star Trek The Next Generation fame so therefor must be of an early European connection...

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Well of course we have no idea of what Kennewick mans hair, eye and skin colors were. Leaving him bald and pale I too would agree that he does show many similarities with Europeans. but what if he were from another stock? What if the European predecessors and his ancestors came from a similar but much older line, say of the Siberian Denisovian line?

What about the earliest Americans?

Is there residual evidence of these early Megalithic builders In the new world? We do find many instances of early cultures and civilizations in the New world. We find Huge megalithic blocks cut with extreme precision among the ruins I've outlined in my fairly recent thread Tiahuanaco, Puma Punku the real mystery. In it I discussed the possibility of the sites in question being much much older than what is accepted by Modern Academia.

But what about other locations and not just Peru? Well, many here are familiar with Central American history of the Aztec, Mayan and Olmec etc. What evidence do we find among their remaining relics? How did they portray themselves? It's interesting to note they had a rather peculiar way of portraying themselves. Often times they are shown with Sloping foreheads, Larger than average noses, weak chins etc. If you look closely you may even see a small hint of an extended brow ridge. Which makes for a rather unique appearance.

Wouldn't you agree?

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Elongated Skulls:

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One aspect of Neanderthals [and possibly others] that seems to be overlooked is how the back of their heads were shaped. Now it is widely known among those who have studied the subject that they had a rather interesting rear protrusion known as the Occipital Protuberance shown in the above image.

Now for argument sake. Let's say, that in fact there were an ancient version of man who traveled the world in prehistoric times and settled throughout the Globe and his descendants or others who came later recognized the physical differences which they may have venerated and tried to duplicate through Cranial manipulation of the shape of their skulls resulting in the sloping forehead and rear bun. We see this type of activity all across the globe from many scattered peoples. There had to be something other than "Aliens" to draw them together. Or sometimes, possibly a certain "Recessive Genetic trait of this earlier crossbreeding comes out"

Just trying to connect the dots here is all..

Half of European men share King Tut's DNA

Scientists at Zurich-based DNA genealogy centre, iGENEA, reconstructed the DNA profile of the boy Pharaoh, who ascended the throne at the age of nine, his father Akhenaten and grandfather Amenhotep III, based on a film that was made for the Discovery Channel. The results showed that King Tut belonged to a genetic profile group, known as haplogroup R1b1a2, to which more than 50 percent of all men in Western Europe belong, indicating that they share a common ancestor.

Akhenaten and his descendants are all well known for having odd shaped slightly elongated skulls which has been speculated on from being a "Genetic abnormality" which was the result of a "Recessive Genetic trait"

[align=center]Tutankhamun [king Tut] on top and his
father [Akhenaten] below [/align]
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CT scans suggest that the "heretical" pharaoh was Tutankhamun's father

Posted on: July 12, 2007 7:05 PM Like Tutankhamun, the mummy was found to have an elongated skull due to a congenital condition dolichocephaly, in which abnormally early fusion of the bones of the skull during development restricts the width of the head. And, also like Tutankhamun, the mummy was found to have cleft palate, impacted wisdom teeth and slight scoliosis - or abnormal curvature - of the spine. It is therefore probable that the individual had a genetic link with Tutankhamun.

Sculpture of Akhenaten as a Youth

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Sculpture of one of Akhenatens
six daughters

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Who were the Ancient Megalithic Builders?

Depending on the true age of some sites they were us and for the still to be recognized much older sites? A much older yet to be recognized version of us. Notice how I've avoided the term "Primitive"? I honestly don't believe that after the mixture of the two hominin lines occurred that they were primitive at all. Maybe some isolated pockets were but not all of them.

I believe the earliest and most Ancient builders were a slightly different version of us. One which was the result of mass migration of Early Homo-Sapiens out of Africa and Neanderthals that were forced south from Europe because of the Ice age glaciation of their former region. There, they mixed with and interbred with each other somewhere in what is now known as the "Fertile Crescent" then moved out across the globe all during a prehistoric period of our past. They explored the world long before recorded history. I feel that many of their accomplishments have been undeservedly given to our much more recent "Modern" ancestors.

Many in the Scientific/Darwinism crowd will probably ask...

Where is the proof?
My response would be something along these lines: Many of them still believe in a "Missing Link" yet one hasn't been found YET. So the proof for this theory and possible scenario has not been found YET either.

Keep digging.

I haven't purposely changed any time lines nor put peoples or events out of place [that I'm aware of]. As I've stating at the beginning, this was just a reinterpretation of scientifically known facts filled out with speculation and conjecture. Some will obviously disagree. No matter,

For those of you who took the time to read through all this thread with an open mind I just wanted to say, Thank you. For all the rest who are chomping at the bit to get their either "Religious or strictly Scientific" view across in response/rebuttal.

Consider the following first...

Final Word on Evolution and Creationism:

We as a species have always carried with us both Science and Religion. I believe deep down inside mankind has always understood this. We build temples [Ancient or not] which requires planning, engineering and mathematics [sciences] to accomplish. Is this not a form of symbioses? For those who believe in a stricter form of Religion did not God give us the ability for higher thinking? Maybe the Fossil record is nothing more than how an infinite being went about his business during creation?

Religions original purpose was to teach man how to be in contact with his Creator on a spiritual level. Not for Religion to take on any physical real world authority over him.

Science should be used to better the way of life. Not to create means in which to enslave and profit from others who need [For example] certain medicines to live or to modify and then Patent certain foods [animal or vegetable] GMO etc.

Someday, When Religion expands and finally grasps the full potential that God Himself gave to us and Science finally figures out all there is to know about the Macro, Micro and even the Multi through their advanced high tech tools. I have a feeling that while peering at the infinitely small or infinitely large they'll find a sign of sorts hanging there that simply reads...

I see you finally figured it out
Welcome home
God

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What a beutiful wall of text and pictures! You have out done yourself yet again Slayer!

This will take me a while to get through, I just wanted to add my thanks and appreciation now. Rockin thread, man. Absolute epic victory.

i so agree with W3RLIED2 - you are totally deadly !

what a shame i'm due for work. can't wait to read.

Ahh, a fantastic thread to digest... This is going to take a little while...

SnF

massive S&F

However, I found a passage that needs to be corrected:

"Some groups may have had an increase in strength from our "Neanderthal/Denisovian" lineage coupled with a greater mental capacity of "Homo Sapien"."

This misconception is widely spread, probably because of the pictures and movies that have been spread portraying Neanderthals as grunts. If we had to guess, Neanderthals had greater mental capacities than Homo Sapiens.

Here a random link to back it up: Reference

Slayer, I have given many flags over the years. The one I just awarded you is the most deserving I have ever given.

Bravo!!!

Now, it's time for me to go back and re-read it, absorb it and see if there is anything I can say that has not already been said.

I just skimmed through it, but you do indeed seem to be on to something. Just before I got to your descriptions of a Neanderthal being bigger and stronger than modern man, I though about the exact same thing. What if they were even much bigger than originally thought, and maybe the idea of trolls, or orcs and other large bulky figures were based around ancient Neanderthals.

Fantastic, have to read a lot still.

Just to add:

We have those in the Netherlands as well:

"Hunnebedden" Transelated : "Beds of the others"

reply to post by KeepYourAnonymity

There were Giants in those days...

excellent post as always slayer! you do make people think. gave you a flag.

does any one else picture a neanderthal sitting in a chair and pointing and saying "make it so."? couldn't help myself seeing that picture of patrick stewart!

Killer Post! This is why I joined ATS.

Do you think Neanderthals and Homo Erectus were actually able to interbreed?

There is no denying the Mono and Megalithic structures took feats of great technology, but when i see the small statues i think of the children of these great builders learning the trade from an elder.

A tour de force and I'm going to thinking about a lot of this for a long time. As a thesis, it does fill in many of the gaps you mention. I actually think you're on to something, Slayer, and there's something tugging at my mind that wants to be born from it. I'll have to wait for the gestation I guess.

There was much here I wasn't familiar with and that alone was time well spent. I particularly found the facts and speculation about the Ainu pertinent to your argument and fascinating regardless.

Bravo Dude: It's the hands-down OP of the Year imo.

reply to post by SLAYER69


As much as I enjoy scrapping in the political mudpit......


This is the reason I come to ATS....fantastic!

Thanks S.

reply to post by SLAYER69


There were definitely giants in those days. When you take the time to absorb how massive the ancient megalithic sites actually are.. the shear massive volume of stone used for their construction.. It's simply baffling. It leads one to re-read the ancient Sumerian texts, and Greek epics, an even the bible with a new filter. I see the tales of giants and creatures that were so different than humans as partial fact and partial myth.

Due to the amount of mentions 'Giants' have in these various texts and myths (Native American, biblical, Greek, ect) I finally realized that they have to be writing about beings that are different than "large humans". These creatures, while similar to humans in many ways, were simply giant in stature and powerful. The stories of giants really can be interpreted as fact. IMO, those texts speak directly about the existence of a giant race that lived here, along side our own human race.

Why would the ancients choose to build with such a difficult medium? I mean megalithic stone blocks! Why? This is some of the hardest material on our planet. Working it with stone hammers and chisels seems nigh impossible, even with the metals we use in tools today. Not to mention that actually transporting, and erecting/placing these giant blocks of stone would take the mechanical strength of one or several modern day sky cranes! How did the ancients achieve such feats with out some technology or strength (maybe the strength of GIANTS) that enabled this task to be easier than it is?

Something else that fits in with your megalith threads is how did the Inca do this? molded granite masonry These blocks look like the were poured into forms in a molten, or some type of concrete slurry state, and set before they hardened. I am a carpenter. My main field of work is concrete forming and pouring. To build structures with this kind of precision and form could only be done with a 'form and pour' type method of building. It's truly mind boggling.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Very nice Slayer! I definitely enjoy your threads and look forward to all future ones, S&F!

Just brilliant

When you write the book it's going to be one of the most thumbed through books on my shelf

The idea that Cro-Magnon man is in fact a hybrid is very, very interesting.... As always you've done as intended and got me to thinking (my poor leetle brain)

reply to post by SLAYER69



The hybrid child found in Portugal is interesting... You can at least get a good idea of what a hybrid race might look like. Hybrid Child from Portugal

This makes me think of the tossed around concept that we were engineered. (Made in “His” image) I believe it’s the Sumerian/Sitchin research that creates this concept. That each (habitable) planet is its own Peachtree dish and the superior visitor’s would have to engineer a race in order to inhabit the planet and have their newly created (Hybrid) race work for them. (mine for Gold etc..) Then with the science and study behind them the “Gods” could then live on the planet and control the tiny blue globe; creating great cities and structures until they are finished. I’m sure I have this backwards or screwed up in some way, but have a read a little about this subject. It’s also possible that “they” aren’t finished and are still and always have been here. HA! Great post.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
What a beutiful wall of text and pictures! You have out done yourself yet again Slayer!

This will take me a while to get through, I just wanted to add my thanks and appreciation now. Rockin thread, man. Absolute epic victory.

Trust me, I still have a whole bunch more where all that came from. To tell the truth, I was starting to cock-eyed from gathering & writing this.

Originally posted by bestintentions
i so agree with W3RLIED2 - you are totally deadly !

what a shame i'm due for work. can't wait to read.

Take your time when you return.
Don't be afraid to U2U me if you have some questions.