Before life. WHAT????

Before you were born you resided in heaven waiting for your turn to be born, and then when you die you are sent back to heaven to await judgement of the trials and such you experienced on earth and will be rewarded or punished appropriately.

that is kind of my same line of thought, thanks for sharein

Before your were born. You did not exist simple. When you die. You no longer exist.. You are your body. We all know it deep down.

the body is the shell of the soul the soul inhabits the body and abandons it at death

There is something that happens before birth and after death. If at all nothing happens, then please explain nothingness. People often say that when e die, we no longer exist. But I beg to differ. How can something that already exists no longer exist after a certain period?

If everything came out of nothing, then something could exist after death too.

If we assume life to be purely biological and we are only organisms, if universe is only an illusion caused by our brain, then I assume that after we die, the universe doesn't exist for those who die but it exists for those who continue to live.

But I see there is more to this life than just being born, reproduce and die. I just want to end this meaningless cycle of material gibberish.

we know we live, and there are varied oponions on what happens when we die but I am not yet sure on what it is that our souls are or where they exist before they are put in our bodies when we are concived or born whichever you believe is the point where the soul enters the body

I like to say I have no beliefs on this subject. Intellectually, I do not. Ther eis another part of me that has visions of things that I am more or less aware of, but choose to ignore as likely false...... and yet they are always there, in the background, subconscious most times......

One of them is this vision that is rather large and I don't know if I could work it into a verbal explanation that communicates it well. I won't try to get it all, but basically, I see life force as consciousness (general) that splits up into peices of "self consciousness", through a long process of spiritual and physical evolution. This implies things like reincarnation, even from one species or life form to another.

This vision often has me percieving (and my intellect ignoring just as fast) entities all around us, in nature, that are lower on the ladder of self consciousness.I guess similar to what people consider "elementals". flames of consciousness beginning their self consciousness separation, but not yet separated enough to have an "I". They don't even yet identify much with the physical life forms they are attached to (plants, for example....) and tend to "wander" from their form.

They slowly evolve to attaching to animal forms, and wander a bit less, beginning to be pulled into the experience through much sensorial stimulation, and bodily reactions. They begin forming a sense of self even more when they incarnate in a domesticated animal- the identification with human forms begins there, through contact and observation.

Then they begin experiences as humans where the sense of "I" grows, the incarnations starting with more socialized groupings of humans (less egos) and slowly moving through bodies of those in more and more individualized societies (more ego, more separation).

I do not really see this as a hierarchial thing where the lower are bad, the higher good- it is experience only, and all are equal, in the end. Consciousness experiences self other separation through traveling through all the colors of the rainbow!

On the other hand, there IS a verticle type hierarchy in a sense, in which a self consciousness learns lessons in power- one of them being the more separated you are from the "all" the more responsibility you have vis-a-vis the lower realms. These lower entities are not demons, they are like....our children. They are watchign us, moving through our bodies, mimicking us, as they are trying on self identity. They also can tend to group around a strong self consciousnes, (really like groupies) as they seek to soak up that identity and power. They can be carrying out ones orders and will as well, just in the way an admiring student will!
-This is the important part of the "responsibility" thing! They are watchign your thoughts as guides to what you will... so think about thigns you don't want to happen? They don't know the difference! Focus on something you hate? They'll bring it to you! They only get the pictures, not the intellectual judgements.

They also are not well famialiarized with self/other separation yet, so what you send out upon another in thought, they will eventually bring upon you as well, only because they don't get the concept of you and the other being different and separate.

This can make them seem "evil" but they are no more evil than our two years old are that throw a toy and break it, or pull your hair because it is pretty and they don't know it is attached to your head, or say a swear word because they hear us saying it all the time!

So, in summary with this, I think each of us might be a part of one huge source- consciousness, and following a path of separation and experience in self-consciousness, and each of us has incarnated many times, in many different forms.

Ugh..... I know that sounds weird. My more rational part struggles with wanting to delete this. I just let that background part go and what it lets out is rather strange. It may be completely off.

There is a story in my family that always gets brought up, that when I was a baby, I used to stay up all night in my crib laughing and babbling. It went on so long, my mom called a psychic or medium or something, and she came to the house and walked into my room one night while I was doing this. She came back out and told my parents I was "playing with as of yet unborn babies".
She walked back in and announced to the "babies" they had to leave, I needed to sleep now and could no longer play.
The story goes that I went straight to sleep and never did that again.

I don't remember this, of course, and it might be a silly myth from twisted memories, or perhaps my parents were just manipulated by that person. I don't know. But there it is for whatever it is worth.

There sure seem to be a whole lot of experts in this thread.

I'd like first to ask for you to convince me that humans have souls. And how you know this is the truth.

I'll happily postulate on the concept of where the soul comes from, after I've been convinced there is even a single soul in existence.

Originally posted by donniedeath
Before your were born. You did not exist simple. When you die. You no longer exist.. You are your body. We all know it deep down.

Yes, this is what I believe too. The idea that sperm penetrates egg, it develops, and then at some later time your soul is inserted into this shell of a body, seems to me to be nothing more than fantasy. To me it makes more sense that you are nothing before sperm and egg combine to create a body, and as this body develops, so does your brain, and consciousness. Once you die, your brain no longer works, your consciousness no longer exists.

Everybody believes differently and that's the way God made us, there is opposition in all things. If everybody believed in the same things, looked the same, talked the same, etc, etc, etc life would be boring.

reply to post by Butterbone


I was replying earlier in the thread about my grandma. She has passed now or I'd ask her for some kind of proof. Either way, I was a young child and it was very interesting to me. Maybe she shaped my playdo brain into thinking things like this were fact. Maybe she was telling the truth. I'm no expert but I'll tell you one interesting fact, my grandma never lied to me about anything.

Take it or leave it.

reply to post by JROCK2527


My mum believes in reincarnation, in a way people probably couldn't understand properly.

reply to post by litterbaux


If that was what your grandmother truly believed then she would want to pass it on to her grandchildren. I believe she passed onto you what she sincerly believed to be how it was.