Hey Man, Where Did You Get That Soul?!

If you want to know more about your soul then you need to research your Pineal Gland, this is where our soul is located some call it our third eye most animals have this but research and you will find

WARNING: The following will not be popular with the legion of reincarnationists today, but cluckerspud, you asked about the soul, so let's think about it anyway...

But first, a preliminary issue. Before we begin to consider what a "soul" might be, isn't it worth examining exactly what a body is?

For example, we might wonder if the body is essentially a program of some kind, or at least, maybe we should consider whether such a notion is useful when contemplating our entire lifespans.

If the body is not particular atoms, but rather a kind of program that makes use of atoms over a period of time, then perhaps this helps illuminate what the "soul" might really be. Is the soul this program?

Perhaps this program isn't exactly the soul just yet. The program is actually closer to what we think of as plain old biological nature, in this case human, not so different than any other animal. While this program seems to make use of atoms as we live our lives, which is the context for our experiences within the physical universe, the individual experiences that emerge from the particular unique physical platform (the genetic individual), add up to a "who", that we identify as a unique individual.

At this point, we are speaking of a unique person, with unique genetics, and unique life experiences. This "who" is really what we mean by a "soul", at least when thinking about the more meaningful usages of that word.

But there is a problem here! This entity is entirely too unique. The "who" that is the particular person is very much a product of unique genetics, and experiences, that will never be repeated again.

In other words, anytime we speak meaningfully of a "who", we are stuck with the "what", but not just "any what", in each case, all components are entirely unique.

Of course, this is only a problem for the reincarnationist. If bodies were perhaps more "generic", then perhaps "souls" could indeed migrate about, but they are stubbornly as unique as "souls", by all appearances.

No doubt, this is only one of many problems the reincarnationist faces, but no worries, since they find themselves in the majority, they need not be bothered too much with too many details. Could spoil all the fun anyway.

Finally, the sticky point regarding "survival" somehow, of this true "essence", beyond the grave.

Here again, reincarnation doesn't seem to be terribly useful, IMO. We just don't need it. And while we're at it, we don't necessarily need a whole lot of religion either (although a god could come in handy down the line).

When the "body" dies, if the reader has been following, so does the unique individual that made up that person, not because the body died, but because the unique individual includes the body as part of the essential essence of who that individual is.

Does this mean that there is no life after death?

Not at all. But it does suggest that such a life would likely still involve what we call the "body" (although as explained above, this is much more than a particular collection of atoms).

I'm sure the religionist could step in with their particular revelations, and all would be fine, but perhaps we still don't need to go there, not just yet.

When a person dies, that unique "pattern" that we have been speaking of, does it somehow "continue"? Does consciousness survive death?

It does. How exactly this might matter is really the issue. Even a die-hard materialist would admit that a "pattern" can not be destroyed, by anything (including death). That's because the pattern itself isn't essentially the body at all.

It's like a beautiful work of art, a painting for example. It may be colorful, symmetrical, large or small, and very unique. The painting, like people, actually exists independent of physical corporeal existence, in the same way numbers and patterns do. You could literally burn the painting in a fire, but you would fail to destroy the "essence" of that painting. The painting, the pattern, can not ever be destroyed.

Maybe that wasn't a perfect example, but here's one more. You might locate every copy of Beethoven's Fifth, and burn them all. You might destroy every recording, and kill everyone who ever heard the piece. But you could simply never kill or erase Beethoven's Fifth. It exists in eternity.

And all this without having to invoke the "name of God"! (Although he could come in handy if these eternal patterns were ever to be reconstructed, reconstituted, "resurrected", etc.)

Yes, and all this without the need for endless, memoryless and useless reincarnating too.

JR

reply to post by cluckerspud


If there's really one uber-soul of which all souls are a part, then there's more than eough to go around. Think hologram, and non-localized information storage and you get a different picture. It's also possible that souls move around from world to world, and that there's a long waiting line to be born into this particular vail of tears, for the opportunity to really learn something, maybe even something new.

Reincarnation doesn't necessraily require the existence of a soul.

After this life, sitting around in nothingness, who's to say that what happened at the beginning of my previous life won't happen again?

reply to post by cluckerspud


oh how refreshing... I don't believe in reincarnation either...

I watched a movie called the unmistaken child and it was a buddist thang and I thought it was very sad to see them taking a child out of a village and brainwashing them to grow up to believe that they were a monk or whatever before...

and the parents let them take the kid !!???

Originally posted by cluckerspud

I am not challenging or declaring that I am right, but what I would like to know is: If you believe the soul drifts from body to body as energy that can not be destroyed, then how do you explain the rise in souls with the rise of the population.

I feel as if I may be late to the party but I still really wanted to share my thoughts on what you said right here. What if there hasn't been an increase in souls meaning what if the amount of human life was compensated with the amount of life humans have destroyed as theyve increased and thus the number souls has stayed the same merely the variety of houses has changed. Or perhaps (excluding animals from the equation all together) the number of souls isn't increasing simply the 'amount' of soul in a person has decreased to compensate for the extra bodies on this theory as the human population increases a deterioration in the morality of society would be observed i.e. destruction of nature, the slaughterhouses that everyone KNOWS are evil, the banks, the corporations, nwo, murders, nukes, the list goes on. Just two theories I thought I'd put out there

Well, this is my personal opinion. I think that the best way to explain this might the the "collective mind" theory. If it was a "well" of souls, in which it cannot be destroyed, might it not be a "energy" or sorts we have yet to identify? A
"soul" is proven to exist, if you've read Dan Brown's Lost smybol, which is based on actual research in noetic science. Just google "noetic science soul experiment" for more information.

Anyways, moving on, if so. reincarnation is simply the collection of information. The topic on if Souls are created or recycled, I have yet to decide and determine an explanation. A "soul" is created/resued in a human body, with no memories and collection begins. All of life's experience is collected once it returns to the collective mind.

Why not, after all. The more minds/information is has the better is is isn't it? It's limited by the individuals making up the mind, and the more information is has the better right?

- 0770_Zhao.

Originally posted by MoralityMatters
I am not challenging or declaring that I am right, but what I would like to know is: If you believe the soul drifts from body to body as energy that can not be destroyed, then how do you explain the rise in souls with the rise of the population.

I feel as if I may be late to the party but I still really wanted to share my thoughts on what you said right here. What if there hasn't been an increase in souls meaning what if the amount of human life was compensated with the amount of life humans have destroyed as theyve increased and thus the number souls has stayed the same merely the variety of houses has changed. Or perhaps (excluding animals from the equation all together) the number of souls isn't increasing simply the 'amount' of soul in a person has decreased to compensate for the extra bodies on this theory as the human population increases a deterioration in the morality of society would be observed i.e. destruction of nature, the slaughterhouses that everyone KNOWS are evil, the banks, the corporations, nwo, murders, nukes, the list goes on. Just two theories I thought I'd put out there

It's never too late and thanks for sharing your thoughts..

I got my soul from the same place you got yours, because it is the same soul.

and as per alan watts

"Now when God plays hide and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself. But that's the whole fun of it—just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But when the game has gone on long enough, all of us will wake up, stop pretending, and remember that we are all one single Self—the God who is all that there is and who lives for ever and ever. "Of course, you must remember that God isn't shaped like a person. People have skins and there is always something outside our skins. If there weren't, we wouldn't know the difference between what is inside and outside our bodies. But God has no skin and no shape because there isn't any outside to him. [With a sufficiently intelligent child, I illustrate this with a Möbius strip—a ring of paper tape twisted once in such a way that it has only one side and one edge.] The inside and the outside of God are the same. And though I have been talking about God as 'he' and not 'she,' God isn't a man or a woman. I didn't say 'it' because we usually say 'it' for things that aren't alive.

...more at We die to remember what we live to forget -- alan watts

reply to post by cluckerspud


o.k.to qualify the statements i am about to make, first i'm well educated in hard science and advanced mathematics. multiple degrees, worked for d.o.d.. a few years back i read a book about astral projection. so i gave it consideration. the shot of it is i made a connection directly with God. I've done things like soul traveling, had many visions and had direct contact with the Creator(God). i've even been allowed to travel to his house and see loved ones. the earliest memory I have is being in God's house prior to being born into this world. it is a choice that was made with God as he consulted with me as to what I would do in this life. i believe all who choose to return loose track of what it is that they intended to do and run amok. that is why many are sent to hell. they are consumed by the b.s. in this world. but back to the point, souls are God's creation, He is in a constant mode of creating. just as we are in the process of evolving as is the universe. I see his hand actively working in this world.
to me its' o.k. if you don't believe. but if you want to learn what I have discovered, feel free to contact me and I will tellyou how to do it. then you will see what a huge universe we really live in.

Originally posted by skydog801
reply to post by cluckerspud

 

o.k.to qualify the statements i am about to make, first i'm well educated in hard science and advanced mathematics. multiple degrees, worked for d.o.d.. a few years back i read a book about astral projection. so i gave it consideration. the shot of it is i made a connection directly with God. I've done things like soul traveling, had many visions and had direct contact with the Creator(God). i've even been allowed to travel to his house and see loved ones. the earliest memory I have is being in God's house prior to being born into this world. it is a choice that was made with God as he consulted with me as to what I would do in this life. i believe all who choose to return loose track of what it is that they intended to do and run amok. that is why many are sent to hell. they are consumed by the b.s. in this world. but back to the point, souls are God's creation, He is in a constant mode of creating. just as we are in the process of evolving as is the universe. I see his hand actively working in this world.
to me its' o.k. if you don't believe. but if you want to learn what I have discovered, feel free to contact me and I will tellyou how to do it. then you will see what a huge universe we really live in.

An enlightened being on ATS!
And a newbie at that.
Whats your secret?

I have no idea whether or not we have souls, but it seems improbable for the reason I will explain.

What makes up your identity here is formed in this life. If your identity is your soul and its some type of invincible and unobservable force I do not see how forming your identity here would carry over well to some afterlife. You'd be starting over again in the afterlife since your identity has only the concept of physical life accessible to it. The analogy of the caterpillar and the butterfly regarding souls/reincarnation somewhat applies here, but not in how its normally interpreted. The caterpillar form of the insect has a completely alien lifestyle to the butterfly form of it, but they at least live and observe the same world. When you die you're clearly absent from this world, so it would seem the point is then lost.

If we have souls that survive after death I can only imagine this life as some form of larval stage and this is just a formality to some other development (into what I have no idea). This life could not be about learning since the lessons learned and identity formed seemingly do not apply to a non-physical existence in which you don't even live on the same planet. The earth would basically be a big incubator, not a school or some test.

Jesus says in effect there are no souls in heaven, for if you could not be
with your spouse then you really could not have a personal existence:

www.raptureready.com...
"Will we have spouses in Heaven?

Not like we do now on earth. The best insight on this comes from Matthew 22:23-33. Jesus, in answering a different question, says that those in the resurrection do not marry, nor are they given in marriage. Apparently, then, marriage is a part of this current life and not of the life to come.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

It is more than likely that Jesus means not just the ceremony of marriage but all the roles, duties and physical intimacies as well. In fact, Jesus further says that we will be like the angels in Heaven; that is, angels are interdimensional beings who are able to move easily between the spiritual and material dimensions. "

Adi Da:

In any case, the highest region is not attained by any projection of attention in the path of ascent. The so-called highest region is not a region at all but the source of the manifest planes, the God-Light, which is not visible, which may not be seen, which may not be attained. The God-Light in Truth is not known apart from the dissolution of the ego or causal principle, the seat of subjectivity, in the Heart. Until that dissolution occurs there is no right knowledge of the God-Light. The God-Light is known only through reflections, in manifestation, through shaktis, appearances, shabds, sounds, vibrations. The God-Light is the reflection of Brahman or Very Consciousness, and out of the God-Light come the subtle and gross regions and all their variations, none of which are themselves the Light. If you happen already to be manifested in the gross plane, at whatever level within it, the subtle region becomes a possible salvation, a way of getting loosed from your troubles and the distractions that weigh you down and annoy you. It's really no different from a bored person pursuing a kind of salvation or relief through worldly distractions in the gross plane. Some people seek to relieve themselves of gross annoyances by projecting themselves into a higher level of the gross plane, as in psychism, spiritualism, moving into the etheric realms, and magic. Such gross paths, kundalini among them, pursue levels of enjoyment within the gross plane, but above the elemental aspects of the gross plane.

I think people often make a common mistake of saying soul when they mean spirit.

Many ancient pagan religions refer to 3 parts of human being rather than just the common modern 2.
The ancients talk of the spirit, the soul and the body.
Granted I often get confused as what each part is supposed to represent.
I believe the soul is the mind.
But the spirit is the consciousness, and is in essence the individual.

I am have been working for some time on a concept.

Basically I believe that everything as a soul; matter, energy and anti-matter. It is what connects everything to the great oneness.

Now that being said, I believe that when the matter and anti-matter is aligned in a configuration that allows for life, the tree of life, the souls that make up these parts combine and work together to form the spirit. Much in the same way cells work together to create the human body.
Upon death, the spirit is destroyed, and as the body begins to decay and the matter decay so does the soul that once made up the spirit.
However just a cell contains DNA that would allow you to reconstruct the human being, so to does the soul have memory of the spirit it once helped form.
If that soul is used again to recreate a human being, it will add in its memory of the old spirit in creating the new spirit.
When talking of multiple souls with spirit memories being used, much in the same way the DNA of two individuals is used to create a new life form, so two will each contribute to create a new spirit.

There are flaws with this idea.
For instance it doesn't really allow for the spirit existing after the death of the life form, thus making any chance of the consciousness persisting after death to be impossible.
However in a way the spirit is immortal, because its memory is carried away by each and every soul that once made up it.

It does do some work in explaining how some people seem to recall experiences of a past life. Because a few pieces of matter that once made up the old individual were used in recreating the new individual.

Edit: On further thinking I do see one possibility I could see for immortality of the consciousness.
Quantum Mechanics teaches us that for every piece of matter that exists, their exists an opposite anti-matter.
It could be possible for the souls of each to trade spaces. Since anti-matter is said to not be able to be destroyed one could be immortal.
This of course hinges on my limit understanding of Quantum Mechanics. As well how one would go about doing such a thing is a mystery to me.