I don't have any faith in belief

christians say all you need to do is believe in jesus to be saved – the problem is I have seen posters on the internet who not only believe in jesus, they believe they are jesus - so I have no use for belief, in the end it does nothing useful

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche

But this I understand:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius

The above was from a post I made earlier* so I though I better add something new

We didn’t do religion at home when I was growing up; it wasn’t until I was 11 that I was exposed to any christianity and I though it was flawed from the start.

But here’s how I figured out what that flaw was:

We used to have coal delivered to our house in one ton loads, but at the end of every summer we would get two ton’s for winter, a lorry would pull up to the gate, tip the coal on the path and leave and it was up to the householder to put the coal away.

So the situation was, end of summer, 12 year old me, two tons of coal and parents not available, so I decided to put the coal away.

While filling the barrow with coal to take to the coal bunker, my first thought was how this would get me something good as a reward.

After a while I then realised just how much hard work this was and I stopped thinking about getting a reward when I realised how happy my dad would be that he wouldn’t have to do it

Next I found I was actually enjoying doing the job – I’m young it’s a hot sunny day lots of physical activity and I was getting a real sense of accomplishment – so rewards, happy dad, all that was ok - but better still was me just doing a good job, the work had become its own reward.

It was at this point I realised what the flaw in christianity was, if there was a god and he had created the world and was trying to filter people in to a good/bad person grouping then he wasn’t going to get good results with his carrot (heaven) /stick (hell) approach, he was going to get people who are good but only to get the reward (heaven) or to avoid the punishment (hell) - who really aren't good people

Surely what he really wanted (if he was real) would be people who are good for goodness’s own sake or who at least make a solid effort to be good.

so I decided I wasn’t going to worry about the whole god/heaven thing, what I was going to do was focus on me been a good guy (that sounded like a full time job any way)

I was going to be good because it was right and for no other reason and if there was a god and he had a problem with me doing it this way (my answer to his puzzle of life if you like) then there must be something wrong with god, in which case I wouldn't care, I would have done the right thing any way

And so an atheist was born – true story by the way


*thanks to jmdewey60

reply to post by racasan

And so an atheist was born – true story by the way

You mean an agnositc...right?

I see nothing in your story where you said you don't think god exist at all...just that if he does, he isn't the christian version of "god".

Very nice story.
I get your logic.

I've always said that heaven will be full of judgemental old biddies, greedy bankers and politicians.

Everyone experiences life differently. Many come to the conclusion there is a God. Many just want to live their own lives. As long as we're happy then yeah baby!

reply to post by racasan


I did something similar running my farm for 25 years. Even doing it ecologically/environmentally, which made the whole project more complicated. It was its own reward, in spite of loosing money on it (earning money on it never became an aim at all).

It didn't take me a long time either to discover that a reward/punishment system in the cosmic dynamics has nothing to do with, what you are involved in. The 'right' things to do are in front of your nose.

reply to post by racasan


S & F. I love the story. This is a great way to make your point, reveals a true Christ like virtue of altruism. I've deduced my current theory of existence to truth. I've stopped relying on faith. I love the Christ I learned about, but I was only taught about him through word of man. The most important truth I've discovered is that I cannot trust man. Christians aren't Christ like. Christ would have found his truth in his work as well, not his reward.

I can't label my belief to a traditional faith, because I no longer settle for belief. I want truth.

Thank you for your story, you too are discovering truth. People aren't telling you what to believe, you're finding it.

reply to post by racasan

*thanks to jmdewey60

I suggested this as a thread to discuss why we should be good. That is something worth talking about, but I also registered my pessimism, without spelling it out what I was thinking. I was thinking this would not be a topic that, for lack of a better term, fundamentalists would enjoy and would avoid the thread. In your analogy, I might add in some parameters to make more options. I don't know much about coal, except the kind blacksmiths use for heating metal. I could dream up something like:
It wasn't summer and was later in the year and rain was expected soon but the parents were called way unexpectedly and the coal would get ruined if left out. That would still be a reward because if you saved it, you would be warm later on. But you could have just done nothing, thinking the parent would return in time and you would still end up being warm, having been lazy and irresponsible.