Newsflash: Wisconsin teachers keep jobs! Democratic /union vitriole unfounded.

Originally posted by The Old American
I find it pathetic that the teacher's union was going to allow 27 teachers to lose their jobs and receive zero income rather than work with the state by allowing those teachers pay into their pensions and contribute a $10 copay.

Source?

As I recall, they were willing to allow co-pay.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by The Old American
I find it pathetic that the teacher's union was going to allow 27 teachers to lose their jobs and receive zero income rather than work with the state by allowing those teachers pay into their pensions and contribute a $10 copay.

Source?

As I recall, they were willing to allow co-pay.

You're right, they were willing to allow co-pay. Sorry. So we can take $30 out of my equation there. The union allowed 27 teachers be fired over $2900, not $2930. My bad!

/TOA

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by The Old American

 

Do you really think the two are comparable in substance and execution? Most people's problems with Wisconsin was not just the substance, but the method uses by Gov Walker.

Im open to being shown I am wrong, and they are the exact same, but at this point, i think you are reaching and conflating.

The MA one was extended to police and firefighters. The WI one wasnt.

The MA one was passed around midnight on a Tuesday with no fanfare. The WI one had a lot of partisan noise created by a party that chose to flee the state rather than go on record casting a vote. Rather than make their vote and have their say or even have the MA cowardice to sneak it through at midnight they intentionally made a media spectacle out of it for political points.

Two different approaches to the same thing. If MA had a (R) for gov they'd have done the same for the political points.

All the noise, media attention, protesting local and national over WI and not a peep for MA.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

MA and WI both limited union bargaining rights. One exploded with protest the other did not.

What am I missing?

Obviously a whole lot.
Indeed. IT is hypocritical for people to pretend it is only the Republicans who are stripping away the middle class, when in fact both parties do the very same thing.

So are you still defending this, or only when a Republican does it?

reply to post by 46ACE


"The media circus it generated was replete with protests; clueless "students"urinating in state capital halls and spouting Marxism; dire predictions of"the end of the world"; Threats of union violence and heaps of vulgar "anti republican" name calling."

Based on your post I don't believe you live anywhere near Madison Wisconsin. Your description of the protesters conduct is incorrect, your news source is based out of State, and your stated reason for the democrats departure is incorrect.

The reason why there were so many protesters is because a cliff notes version of the bill was being passed around. Many of the protesters were people who realized that Governor Walker was making a MASSIVE power grab. This bill also placed a governor controlled choke hold on elected leaders ability to run a myriad of agencies & respond appropriately in emergencies. Having a history of bargaining that is peaceful & profitable (unlike the union mobs of New York); news agencies around the country and the world put an incredibly myopic spin on events happening in this State.

Your post, it's sources, and reasons are uninformed and insulting to the many Wisconsinites who didn't want to go down the same road the State of Michigan has. Our governor is behaving like a dictator, removing the peoples right to sanction him, and threatening to pull rank on almost ALL elected officials from the Senators on down to mayors in the State of Wisconsin. All he has to do is declare an emergency FOR ANY REASON & the power is his, which is why he was so adamant in passing this bill. These are just SOME of the powers he's "granted" himself...

reply to post by The Old American


my bad. I thought you were willing to have a mature conversation, and not one embedded in partisan trickery.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

MA and WI both limited union bargaining rights. One exploded with protest the other did not.

What am I missing?

Obviously a whole lot.
Indeed. IT is hypocritical for people to pretend it is only the Republicans who are stripping away the middle class, when in fact both parties do the very same thing.

So are you still defending this, or only when a Republican does it?

I never did defend it. I simply asked for consistency.

If we bother to be consistent across the board we'd start dragging every politician around by the neck instead of eating each other while arguing whether Coke or Pepsi is more refreshing and making sociopaths ever richer and ever more powerful.

Fill the MA capitol with screaming hordes.

Funny enough Boston played host to several "supporting" protests for the WI unions. When it passed in MA crickets could be heard for miles.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Agreed. Partisans on both 'sides' are hypocrites, and it's worth mentioning.

So you dont mind public sector unions having their CB rights stripped by either 'side' you actually represent the same corporate interests?

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


If you must know I disapprove of the existence of a "public sector" entirely. That "public sector" is what allows corporatism to exist in the first place. But that is another thread.

Originally posted by Saazsea
reply to post by 46ACE

 

"The media circus it generated was replete with protests; clueless "students"urinating in state capital halls and spouting Marxism; dire predictions of"the end of the world"; Threats of union violence and heaps of vulgar "anti republican" name calling."

Based on your post I don't believe you live anywhere near Madison Wisconsin. Your description of the protesters conduct is incorrect, your news source is based out of State, and your stated reason for the democrats departure is incorrect.

The reason why there were so many protesters is because a cliff notes version of the bill was being passed around. Many of the protesters were people who realized that Governor Walker was making a MASSIVE power grab. This bill also placed a governor controlled choke hold on elected leaders ability to run a myriad of agencies & respond appropriately in emergencies. Having a history of bargaining that is peaceful & profitable (unlike the union mobs of New York); news agencies around the country and the world put an incredibly myopic spin on events happening in this State.

Your post, it's sources, and reasons are uninformed and insulting to the many Wisconsinites who didn't want to go down the same road the State of Michigan has. Our governor is behaving like a dictator, removing the peoples right to sanction him, and threatening to pull rank on almost ALL elected officials from the Senators on down to mayors in the State of Wisconsin. All he has to do is declare an emergency FOR ANY REASON & the power is his, which is why he was so adamant in passing this bill. These are just SOME of the powers he's "granted" himself...

AAAAAACCCCKKKK! CURSES!!! You got me! You are correct:
I live150 miles to the north in Wausau,(Wi). I did not venture down to Madison during the "demonstration."

In fairness: While searching for links to backup what I read back in February I have indeed found conflicting reports on the damage and unsanitary conditions within the capital building resulting from the protests in Madison. Depending on the political bias of the particular source:.

UPI.COM

MADISON, Wis., March 4 (UPI) -- Wisconsin officials conceded Friday round-the-clock protests in the Statehouse in Madison appeared to have done little damage to the building.

During a court hearing Thursday, Republican officials estimated repair costs at $7 million, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. State facilities administrator Jeff Plale, a former Democratic state senator, called that a "worst-case scenario" Friday.

Read more: www.upi.com...

from the milwauke journal-sentinel:

"We are closing the Capitol for a short period of time for public health reasons, as well as for general building maintenance," Tubbs said
www.jsonline.com...

Wisconsin Union protest caused $7.5 Million in damage
March 4th, 2011 by admin | Posted in Looney Left, Progressive, revolution, seiu, socialism, union

Way to go Wisconsin unions, protesters, progressives, and “useful idiots” of the left- you really do know how to live up to your reputation!

According to the Department of Administration, the protesters left the Wisconsin capital with an estimated $7.5 million in damage.

Oh yes, how can we forget- the tax-payers will pay for this one. Progressives are a wonderful bunch aren’t they? I’m sure $7.5 million could have been used for “the children”, the poor, or maybe some plane tickets to send some of these wannabe-socialists to an actual socialist country to live out their Utopian dream…

.
www.freestaterevolution.com...

edit on 27-7-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

reply to post by 46ACE


It has been 5 months. How much of that $7 Million in damage has been repaired and at what cost? I find it hard to believe there was 7 million dollars worth of scotch tape residue.

Originally posted by spinalremain
You're actually advocating the stoppage of workers organizing to bargain for proper pay and benefits?
You must employ 50 people and hate paying them.
Employees having bargaining power is what made the middle class great. You want to take that away.

edit on 27-7-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)

Oh you know what Walt Disney said. You must work for the man because you believe in the cause for as little pay as everybody else. After all you the company and the boss are one big family. If you want a pay that reflects your work and qualification instead of being happy with getting as little money as everybody else you are a communist.

All those union men who want more capital each month, communists the lot of them.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

If you must know I disapprove of the existence of a "public sector" entirely. That "public sector" is what allows corporatism to exist in the first place. But that is another thread.

That's a bold claim. The corporate world predates the public sector by centuries.