The Military Enlistment Oath

Do people in the military take it seriously or do they just blindly follow orders? Here is the oath for everyone who hasn't heard it.Please don't get mad at me I'm just asking questions

The Enlistment Oath

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Note supporting and defending the Constitution is first and foremost in the oath with enemies being foreign and domestic. Now does anyone believe the military would stop an unconstitutional law from passing here by using force against Domestic enemies of the Constitution? I always here people saying thank you for protecting our freedoms to them but are they protecting our freedoms? With that being said Its a lot to ask of anyone in the military i mean they could lose their life or be shamed or end up in prison if they killed or rushed in and stopped a congress vote. But in reality that's why we have them they our protection against our own government and invading armies. What are your view on this? Do i have this wrong? Or does the Military now just follow the second part of the oath?

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


"So help me God."

How hysterical.

This guy

Most of them take it seriously. Some just for college money and a check on the 1st and 15th of each month. Now you have to understand something. Not many military men and women really know whats going on. I didn't wake up til I was already out. If every service member knew what was going on, the president and member of the house and senate would be arrested for treason. As far as the "So help me God" remark, how about start a thread on why you think thats wrong instead of derailing this thread?

reply to post by mb2591


Very inspirational! Excellent post.

reply to post by mb2591


Thank God. I was beginning to wonder.

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


The “So help me God” is actually optional. You don’t have to say it at all.

Yes, to many people, they’re just words. Myself, I took the oath seriously and that is also one of the reasons I left the service. I had many reasons, this is just one, and the negatives finally outweighed the positives.

I am seeing more domestic enemies nowadays than foreign, but they are out there. I still try to keep a open mind though.

I have nothing but respect for those who serve, but when youngins’ ask what I think; I tell them that while it is their personal choice, to think hard about it first.

I have bought a couple of meals for those who are thinking about enlisting in the Army and tell them how it works from experience. I have had recruiters call me and complain about a lost recruit, and I have had them call me thanking me for putting a recruits mind straight..

Everybody has a personal tale to tell.

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


I can't help but think that even though you may have good intentions in mind, you have likely not served in the American military or at least have not read the U.C.M.J.

It is not the intent nor the duty of the military to interfere in anyway with the operations of congress.

It is the judicial branch of our government who is charged with the interreptations of the laws, after they are passed by congress, if they are constitutional or not.

There are provisions within the U.C.M.J. where as a soldier can refuse those orders which are unlawful, but they must then bare the consiquences of those decisions. A direct violation of this oath is "frowned upon".

Maybe you should have someone explain it to you in more detail.

Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
The Enlistment Oath

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
.....................

What are the bolded terms?

"So help me God" made it sound to me like I need god to help me because I have to obey all orders! Kind of like saying "oh shhhhit!" after being told you can't dissent.

I recall being told that part of joining the military is giving yourself to them. If you want to protest the war then don't join the military! Because if you do that after joining, they will hold you responsible for rejecting your orders and obstructing your duties and the duties of others.

I think some personalities fit the military code better than others. I swear. Think I've always had too much hippy in me. Too much heretic in my blood. Too much distrust. Too much will to live. I got a zillion questions inside me. I don't want to not ask them just because I'm wearing a uniform. It's like walking up to a friend and talking about the latest stuff going on with the moon. They shrug their shoulders and look bored as I'm talking. Then they say, "Aright! Whatever bro! This is boring. Shut up." It's like your commanding officer saying, "Ok, that's enough. Get back in to line. We have a job to do and we don't have time to waste." That's a more formal way of saying, "Aright! Whatever bro!" That's the feeling I get from the military. They're all hard heads.

I'm the type of guy that always falls out of line but never ends up in jail. My head is always drifting where it shouldn't go. I don't have the kind of discipline and intensity needed for service. I can manage one or the other, I think, but not both. For example, I can have discipline, but then I won't have any drive for it. I can have the drive, but then I won't have the discipline.

Before Operation Iraqi Freedom happened, I knew I would never join the effort. I didn't think we had enough on Saddam to justify the consequences. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would join the navy in 1997 or 1998 but I would have come out in 2000 or 2001 then protested the war until our administration had better reasoning to justify the consequences. Back then it felt like they were grabbing for straws. They already wanted Saddam removed probably 5 years or more before that time. It was a foregone conclusion. That's why I didn't trust them. They were not serving the will of the people, they were serving themselves.

Operation Iraqi Freedom I think was the beginning of my distrust. Before that I had entertained a couple things like the JFK assassination and maybe ufos. Since then my views have changed somewhat. I think it's possible Lee Harvey Oswald did it and that all of those things I read back then were just distortions of the truth, but something keeps me from going that far. I can't explain it, but it just feels convenient to me that both John and his brother were killed consecutively. Something smells! As for UFOs? I think people have seen something out of place, but I don't know whether it's alien or not. Anyway, since 2003 my trust in the military has gone down. It's that trust that keeps me from ever being comfortable around military people.

But I don't want to get caught in that distrust forever. It's the same with democrats versus republicans. Democrats tend to fear the capitalist lovers for irrational reasons. Republicans tend to fear government scientists because they think they're all in league with the liberals and democrats. Taxes are bad! Democrats think republicans are John Wayne wannabes. The list goes on and on. This distrust between the two is often irrational. I think a lot of my distrust is based on a factual history, but I think some of it's irrational too. Military people aren't all bad. And Saddam probably a deserved a lot of what was coming his way. Human opinions aren't just facts or evidence. An opinion can have all of its facts right and still be wrong. Similarly, it can have all of its facts be wrong and yet be right overall. Opinions are hit and miss and very complicated. That's why you should never try to change a person by making an argument. People do change, but it takes time and a diversity of conversations and experiences. Few of which are predictable.

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


Most soldiers do take it serously, We had to repeat that oath quite a few times, and you are asked multiple times if you are sure about what it is your doing.

First let me say I am a veteran of the US Army, I paid my dues and have EARNED the right to say this:

The US Military does NOT defend the Constitution. This is just a FACT of our history.

With the refusal of the State of Virginia to the request of President Lincoln to raise a Militia to evade South Carolina to enforce Federal Tariffs began the erosion of the idea of the United States. The Federal Government at this time raised an Army and it has been with us since. The Army has always been the enforcer of the President’s policies without regard to the Constitutionally of the policy.

One would hope that the Officers and troops alike would use their personal value set to protect our Constitution, but this is not the way of it in real life. If it was, our Military top officers would NOT use the military without a Declaration of War by the Congress. The only time the President is AUTHORIZED to use the Military WITHOUT a Declaration of War is if we are attacked and this has only happened once and we knew it was coming and allowed it to happen. Pearl Harbor.

The Military WILL fire upon United States Civilians.
Our Military is no different from the German Army of Nazi Germany. They Will follow their orders and they will do all forms of evil within our own boarders. Just look at the way the local Policeman acts on his patrol.

They know that it is WRONG and against our Constitution to kick down doors, stop citizens on the street without cause, but they do it anyway, this will be the same way the Military will act.
Look at Katrina, door to door Gun confiscations by the National Guard.

Today our Military is actively using its capabilities inside our own boarders to enforce the will of the Federal Government, which has been high-jack by Globalist to usurp the Constitution and weaken the Nation so that we will fall under the One World Order. Which is exactly the Nazi concept.

So the answer to the question Follow Orders or Protect the Constitution ?

It has, is, and will always be

FOLLOW ORDERS

and they will use the Constitution to wipe the blood from their boots.

Originally posted by wardk28
Most of them take it seriously. Some just for college money and a check on the 1st and 15th of each month. Now you have to understand something. Not many military men and women really know whats going on. I didn't wake up til I was already out. If every service member knew what was going on, the president and member of the house and senate would be arrested for treason. As far as the "So help me God" remark, how about start a thread on why you think thats wrong instead of derailing this thread?

edit on 2-7-2011 by wardk28 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by brokedown


I have to refute what you are saying. I have had this conversation many times with fellow Soldiers. Not one has said they will fire upon civilians, with the exception of said civilians firing upon them. They all have considered that to be an illegal order. But when it becomes a situation of personal survival, they will have no problems popping someone’s dome.

You paint with a broad brush my friend. Something about your rant tells me that you are bitter and did not have the best experience in the military.

I'm not military. But I'll state my view on this.

I think that fear produces a lot of unwanted results. Lets say that a unit is given a debriefing and told that these citizens are dangerous and many are armed. So essentially the unite is primed; like a bomb is hot. So when they enter the civilian zone they will be on edge. Everything will be suspicious. The civilians themselves will also be suspicious and similarly on edge. This is not a good circumstance and is bound to produce unwanted results. A single clash can cascade into others. So while I think that you're right that soldiers would not willingly fire on a non-combatant civilian, I think that you're misjudging the amount of chaos that would ensue and from this chaos would come the civilian (and possibly soldier) deaths. Nature never fits our plans very well.

This happens with police officers a lot. Most everyone looks like a potential criminal to them.

When a person is nervous, it's hard to just observe. Even a cane can look like a rifle. If the person in question only has seconds to make a choice then it's understandable.

One bad situation with a civilian can make a soldier look at other civilians in the wrong way.

(same applies to police officers)

I've never felt like a gun was aimed at me but I've had dreams like that. It felt very uncomfortable knowing that I could be shot at any moment. It made me very angry at the enemy. I remember a sense of brotherhood with those I was fighting alongside. It felt like being in hell. But maybe that was because it was only a dream. if I was in hell for a long time, like years, it'd be different.

Most civilians, I think, don't know what it's like to feel like you could be shot at any moment. The best the lot of us can relate to is what we've seen in movies/books or have dreamed of.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Don’t try to turn my reply to the OP into a “personal rant”.

It is far from that. It is a fact of United States history that the Military WILL shoot and kill unarmed American Citizens.

I am going to give you a task my friend and the journey I set before your feet will open your eyes to the True nature of the reality we find ourselves in, if you choose to follow the path.

Here it is :

Name just one of the many times that UNARMED United States civilians were shot and killed within the United States by the US Military.

Now this has happen repeatability through our history, so the search will be easy. I won’t give you the answers without you first making an attempt to find out the TRUTH on your own.

Now back to your thought that you as a member of the military or your friends would not shoot a citizen unless he his shooting at you.

The real question is Why would a US Citizen shoot at the US Military ?

The only reason a citizen would do this is to defend his unalienable rights, which would be being infringed upon by the Military. At this point the Citizen has the responsibility and duty to act in such a manner.

The Military is not fired upon just going down the road minding their own business inside the United States. But stop, and set up a road block or check point and you as the military just wiped your boots on the Constitution and the true patriots will see this act as aggression.

And you were just following your orders.

Remember that there are many orders given that should NOT be followed.

reply to post by brokedown


I do not deny the history, but it is just that, history. It is something that we should learn from and do our damnest not to repeat. And I do not deny that a false flag could be set up to get our military to fire upon civilians.

If Soldiers are actually given the order to fire upon civilians, it will eventually result in mutiny. Remember, in todays age, servicemembers opinions are just as fractured as here on ATS. They're not robots.

I wish I could respond further, but I'm running late for a picnic date. Enjoy your weekend.

Officers have a different Oath.

The part about following the Orders of the President...doesn't exist in their oath.

They took an oath in which they SWORN to SUPPORT and DEFEND the Constitution of the United States.

Failure to SUPPORT and DEFEND the Constitution makes them an enemy of We The People, as well as a TRAITOR to the United States Of America.

It is THEIR choice as individuals whether to be an enemy to the citizens and a traitor to the country.

THEIR OWN CHOICE.

The irony is they swear to protect the constitution and in the next breath give up all their constitutional rights by swearing to follow the UCMJ and be subject to it. So the double speak is just another sign of the times, the very people tasked to defend the constitution are not even afforded its protections... Sigh!

Remember folks its a contract DON'T SIGN IT! And if they ever institute a draft because they cannot find enough human cannon fodder anymore that are ignorant enough to volunteer for more illegal wars for oil and banksters just refuse to take the oath!

I took the Oath seriously, and STILL DO