Arizona schools chief says Tucson district's ethnic studies program violates state law

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by DerbyCityLights

 

Excuse me, but if I were in my own country and I'd make a stand against the US imperialism I'd be hanged by the very government you support.

So until you figure out what you are talking about. Until you figure out the scope of this problem, you pretty much will remain clueless.

Thats rich. My government would hang you for standing you against them in YOUR country? Dude, you forgot your meds this morning. So what country are you from Zamini? Would it be one of those that cuts off both your hands for stealing? Or perhapes one of them that makes you marry off your 6 year old daughter to a 45 year old prince? I hope you dont cut easily because you sure are breaking all your glass....

edit on 16-6-2011 by DerbyCityLights because: (no reason given)

Still no admission of where you are from Zamini? Still playing the "I Hate the US" game while hiding behind your cloak of anonymity I see. At least you finally agreed that this BS being taught is actually BS....

reply to post by Zamini


Not treated as equal human beings? They break the law to enter this country. Upon arrival, they get medical care, free education, are covered under the constitution and rule of law of this country, receive government entitlements and in some cases are given the right to vote. Are the Mexican's treating illegal immigrants to their country in the same manner? No. They have armed troops on their southern border to fend off the Central Americans. Does any other country afford law breaking illegals the same rights and freedoms afforded to those who enter into the US? None comes to mind.

If it is such a bad deal for them and they are being treated as sub-human as you suggest, why are they coming in the first place?

reply to post by DerbyCityLights


Reading comprehension, background knowledge...all of these things will save your life more than once.

Thats rich. My government would hang you for standing you against them in YOUR country?

Indirectly yes. Seeing as how one sponsors the other. I never said YOUR government did it directly though. That's a reading comprehension issue of yours.

Dude, you forgot your meds this morning.

Blatant attack on character. Let me retort:

You lack reading comprehension that a six year old has mastered. What does you failing at reading have to do with these hypothetical meds I forgot to take? Hypothetical, it means that I don't take meds(in case you mess up with your reading again).

So what country are you from Zamini? Would it be one of those that cuts off both your hands for stealing?
Or perhapes one of them that makes you marry off your 6 year old daughter to a 45 year old prince? I hope you dont cut easily because you sure are breaking all your glass....

You are YEARS of reading and education away from understanding what I'm speaking about. I live in the Netherlands by the way.

Edit:

I never denied that it was BS. You all like to throw that image that you have in your mind on me because obviously, the opinion I share hurts you. Because even if you disagree with it fully, you know you can't go around the truth.

reply to post by Zamini


That was a failed attempt at hiding behind psudo-intellect in order to evade my question. Do you comprehend that? Still cant answer my question? Afraid I might find even worse things out about where you are from? It would really suck to be flaming someone elses country and government when the one you adhere to is much worse, now wouldnt it...

edit:

I missed the very last part of your pst where you said you are from the Netherlands....Yeah...The Dutch would hang you for speaking out about the US? Are you crazy? They are all to high on pot and heroine to care!

reply to post by DerbyCityLights


Like I said, I live in the Netherlands. Pseudo-intellect? Please...if anything that's you.

I've said time and time again on this forum, I'm a Kurdish Iranian. I do not adhere to the Iranian regime either before you go that road.

I missed the very last part of your pst where you said you are from the Netherlands....Yeah...The Dutch would hang you for speaking out about the US? Are you crazy? They are all to high on pot and heroine to care!

I said I live in the Netherlands not that I'm from the Netherlands. Again, another reading comprehension failure.

Originally posted by Zamini
the American government was the root of the problems and evils!

Why do you think Mexico is not responsible for its own problems and America is to blame?

reply to post by Skyfloating

Why do you think Mexico is not responsible for its own problems and America is to blame?

It's not that simple either. Mexico is to blame, but Mexico is not to blame for the cause of it.

America is to blame for the cartel forming in South America by funding and sponsoring drug lords and death squads.

The cartel forming is to blame for the breaking down of social structure.

The breaking down of social structure is to blame for the need to find a suitable place to live.

(this is overly generalized but to give you an idea).

These would be random cause and effects if it were not for the drawn up plans of the NAU. Now with the NAU in mind one can discern that the recent instabilities in Mexico are being orchestrated and funded by America and American ties in order to annex it with as little public protests as possible. Mind you, this could be a year away or ten years away; my guess is sooner than later.

But if you thought that Mexico could just deny the US you are dead wrong. Hypothetically speaking, if Mexico were to say no to the weapon/drugs deals that are going on,they would lose out on subsidies or incentives they(people in power) receive or they would lose out on protection from revolts in their country.

And it does. Ethnic studies of any caliber is racism, but it's okay because it's only teaching kids to hate their white classmates. Their "oppressors", even though those classmates are fifty years removed from any such actions.

reply to post by Zamini

What should be the question, is why are they not learning about their culture in their own home, and why is it the tax payer that has to pay to teach them something that they should already know about? Consider this, if they are of a Hispanic heritage, having Hispanic parents, would it not be best for them to learn about their culture from a first hand source, rather than a book? Are parents so out of touch with their children, that they are afraid to teach their children anything? If the students are in a school, in a country, then learn about that country, learn what it is to be a citizen of that country and only that country for the primary education. Cultural studies should be a part of a language course, as part to teach a student, but not what is coming out from Arizona, and especially the TUSD.
What they are teaching is not cultural heritage, but rather it is racism pure and simple, or rather reverse racism, to teach young impressionable minds to hate the very country that is giving them an education, and we the people are paying for it.
For myself, when my own children and those nieces and nephews want to learn about our heritage and culture, it is done at home, to where they are learning first hand what it is to be apart of a culture, and where their ancestors come from. It is very specific, but never with hatred and prejudice that would be seen in some of the groups out there.
What is really how funny about the entire Hispanic culture that claims that the USA stole their lands fail to study history and realize that the land was paid for and the US, after the Mexican American war, the US also paid for reparations to the government of Mexico. And there were parts of Mexico that was paid for as well, like the Gadson purchase. Given for inflation that is trillions of dollars that went to Mexico, so how is that stealing from their people? And those living here at the time, were granted automatic citizenship, in the USA. So how is that hatred or racism to teach that?

Honestly I'm getting sick and tired of all the pro-hispanic rhetoric, not nust from the fast growing latino population in this country, but especially from the dems pandering to all 20+ million illegals so they can groom an entire new batch of voters by trying to push legislation like the dream act through.

He is a letter I wrote in response to Obama's 'immigration reform' speech he gave recently in Texas:

Dear Mr. Obama:

I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican Government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English- speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my housetop, put U.S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I’ll need income tax credits so that although I don’t pay Mexican taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Government pays $4,500.00 to help me buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

If the studies are indeed that slanted, I have an issue with that. I don't have any issue whatsoever with neutral culture studies as a whole, be it ancient, or modern ones. Knowing the histories and intricacies of the myriad of cultures that make up your human brethren on this sad rock is not a terrible thing. I hate to see it tipped towards such a xenophobic side for the subject of study, or the ones studying it. Learning a little about a non-American one does not make you anti-American, it merely makes you a wee bit more knowledgeable in the end, and that is certainly not a bad thing. It seems that Arizona's ethnic studies, if this representation is factually accurate, has missed that target entirely.
We struggle so hard planet-wide competing for the title of "Best" in so many subjects and industries that no one really bothers anymore to learn about each other beyond the borders and names. We will lose in this arena the most, and the fastest. Globally competing in the sciences, mathematics, will matter not if we don't make the effort to learn & understand what the 6+ billion others on this planet originate from. Ignorance indeed feeds hatred, achievements matter little when cultures seethe as a result of knowing squat about each other.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
This is outrageous. They will not fund a program that promotes hatred. There is no way that the tax payers of this country should be funding an educational program that promotes racial solidarity of any group, which only seeks to further isolate them from the mainstream of society.

What do you mean, exactly, by "mainstream society"? In context, I just have to guess you're defining mainstream as whatever standards are set by the majority - which is of course, white. There's a certain irony in that.

Now, an honest look at history reveals that you are simply wrong. Flat-out and totally wrong. There is not a single ethnic group in this country that has gained acceptance by lying low and hoping to quietly "merge with hte mainstream". In every case, social acceptance came from ethnic unity. Black, Indians, Jews, you name a group, all of them were scattered non-entities in this country until they decided to stand up for each other.

How about a program that teaches real modern Mexican history? Lets talk about the real reasons that Mexico, though thick with natural resources is a failed state.

Teach the kids why so many folks want to leave Mexico in the first place. Teach them about the systemic corruption, the violence, massive poverty, the nepostism in government and the private sector, the integration of the cartels and all branches of the government.

It's called NAFTA. This piece of international legislation has basically singlehandedly turned Mexico from a solid country into what you see now. It has rich natural resources - that can't be touched by Mexicans because Americna companies swooped in and laid claim. It has lots of land, but farming is a useless endeavor because US subsidies to their own farmers make American produce cheaper in Mexico than Mexican produce is. The migrants are coming north because our "free trade" with Mexico has stripped away their livlihoods and jobs. Our auto companies bought up the Mexican factories and sent all the jobs to China and Indonesia. American and Canadian clothiers bought the textile mills and sent them all to Vietnam and Haiti.

Teach them about the racism towards Central Americans rampant in Mexico.

Which is absolutely no different from the racism towards Mexicans rampant in the United States; Also worth mention is CAFTA, which has done to these countries what NAFTA did to Mexico.

Let them learn the full story, not this agtiprop which is only meant to solidify a political voting base and play towards liberal, multi-cultural elites and race baiters.

The only thing I can figure out that could be wrong with being a liberal multi-cultural elite is that they have a problem with your race-baiting agitprop meant to solidify a political voting base.

If these folks are so interested in providing a rich learning environment where Latinos can learn about their heritage, teach them all of their history.

Ever considered that their history isn't actually something you have a critical say in? 'Cause, forgive me, but when it comes to this particular subject, you are teetering on hte fine line between "completely ignorant" and "willingly stupid."

Once again, we see this attitutde of "I'm 'mainstream' so I get to call the shots!" from you.

reply to post by sdcigarpig

What should be the question, is why are they not learning about their culture in their own home, and why is it the tax payer that has to pay to teach them something that they should already know about?

As hard as it may be to imagine for you. Not everyone is raised in a suburban area with the same opportunities, a thanksgiving meal a year and the propaganda story to go with it. Most of these immigrants you talk about have to focus so hard on making money to get by another day that standing still for a moment and thinking about the education of themselves and their fellow man is simply not viable.

Consider this, if they are of a Hispanic heritage, having Hispanic parents, would it not be best for them to learn about their culture from a first hand source, rather than a book?

Oh boy, you know books can be written as first hand sources right? But apart from that, how easy do you think it is to go on cultural outings in Mexico with these drug lords busting up the place for their American connections?

Are parents so out of touch with their children, that they are afraid to teach their children anything?

No, they simply have to work a couple of jobs a day or look for a couple of jobs a day. I've been to California and been to Mexican neighborhoods. I've seen a young Mexican family, father always working several jobs - no matter what job - to support his family. They are definitely not out of touch with their children on purpose, it's just work you know, got to work. FYI the same goes for many white families, they have to work so hard that very little time is left to educate their own children. A shame really.

If the students are in a school, in a country, then learn about that country, learn what it is to be a citizen of that country and only that country for the primary education.

And that is how you end up being an ignorant ass to the rest of the world, ie: "Europe is a country".

What you are suggesting is going back in time. Not in the sense that once you are back you can change things for the better, but in the sense that the world is spinning one way and you want it to spin the other.

Cultural studies should be a part of a language course, as part to teach a student, but not what is coming out from Arizona, and especially the TUSD.

Excuse me but you are not someone to be setting up or splitting up education courses. This is something irrelevant to the article.

What they are teaching is not cultural heritage

That may well be.

but rather it is racism pure and simple, or rather reverse racism, to teach young impressionable minds to hate the very country that is giving them an education, and we the people are paying for it.

Victim role here huh. Who exactly is paying for it? Tax payers right? Did you know immigrants pay taxes? Even illegal immigrants have to pay forms of taxes.

For myself, when my own children and those nieces and nephews want to learn about our heritage and culture, it is done at home, to where they are learning first hand what it is to be apart of a culture, and where their ancestors come from. It is very specific, but never with hatred and prejudice that would be seen in some of the groups out there.

That's a wise approach. Wiser would be to teach them how to correctly get away from the culture and create one of their own.

What is really how funny about the entire Hispanic culture that claims that the USA stole their lands fail to study history and realize that the land was paid for and the US, after the Mexican American war, the US also paid for reparations to the government of Mexico. And there were parts of Mexico that was paid for as well, like the Gadson purchase. Given for inflation that is trillions of dollars that went to Mexico, so how is that stealing from their people? And those living here at the time, were granted automatic citizenship, in the USA. So how is that hatred or racism to teach that?

Hey, there's no argument here.

reply to post by Zamini

I did not say every one has the same opportunities, nor did I say propaganda. Nor am I stating that immigrants do not pay taxes, so where you got that from the posting is beyond me. If you could point out in my post where I stated that immigrants don’t pay taxes, that would be appreciated.
While you are true, that you can go to a cultural outing in Mexico, I did not say that either, nor did I make any reference to drug lords, it was merely a point about how the parents should have a bit more of a hand in the education of their children. The question is do you really need to each a Hispanic child about the very culture that he or she is from, when they live it at home? The answer should be no, you should not be teaching children about such, it should remain in the home, and it should be with the parents.
As you have mentioned just one state, to be frank, I have lived in 4 states, Texas, Colorado, Arizona and California and have been too, lived in and seen the very same neighborhoods. Talk about culture, it is reeking of such, looking like little Mexico’s. While the father may be out trying to get a job, in those neighborhoods, it seems like there is a higher rate where one parent is at home, and not out working 2 or three jobs. And in some of the lower ends of those neighborhoods, as I have seen such, it seems like it is the family, the extended family that tends to live under one roof, be it a house or an apartment. Now with more than 2 adults there, say 6 or 8, are you saying that they are not exhibiting anything of their own culture to the children that live there?
Really? I did not say “Europe as a country.” Nor have I ever stated Europe is a country. That is utter and complete nonsense, as most know that all of Europe, or rather the Eurasian continent is made up of many countries, having lived there as well for 3 years. And while I was living there, one of the required courses that I had to take was the language of the host country, and in that particular course, the culture was taught. And later, while attending high school and college level language classes, here again, that was when the culture of the people, of the language that I was learning was taught. There was no separate class to such, nor should there be.
Illegal immigrants pay taxes beyond sales taxes? Well if that is the case then they are breaking the law and should be deported immediately.
The point I was making, was that when it comes to a culture, it should be taught at home, what is being taught in the TUSD is nothing more than reverse racism and bigotry. The material are classes of hate and violence, and if these kinds of classes spread across the US, then the country will have another rift that it is going to have to figure out how to solve.
Teach the children the fundamentals of education, leave the cultural learning for language courses where it should be, at a higher level of education. Culture is not something you can really learn in a class, rather it has to be experienced first hand. And if the material is nothing more than racist or bias, to the point of having a generation of people who are willing to rise up in an insurrection against the very people who gave them that education, perhaps it is the wrong message that is being taught.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


The European immigrates early in the last century had solidified pressure groups that endeavored to influence the society at large in the same manner the Latino's do today? You are simply wrong. The European immigrants, by the way, most of them legal, sought to become fully integrated into the US culture. Their kids were indistinguishable from 2nd or 3rd generation Americans. I grew up in a very diverse community in the 70s. Diverse from a European perspective. Many of my friends only spoke their parents native language at home and they received cultural education about their heritage at clubs and non-tax payer funded organizations, not in public school.

I don't believe that the German's who came here demanded that German forms be available from the government or that German studies be taught in schools. If there is an attempt to not provide a fully functional suite of government services in Spanish, it is considered racist. Why on earth is it racist? Japanese Americans don't consider it racist when it is not provided to them. Why is it different, because of something that happened a few hundred years ago when boundries were redrawn? Get over it. Oh thats right, they won't or can't get over it, which of course is not their fault. They are living in a place that 150 years ago was a part of Mexico. Thats why they don't speak English. Makes perfect sense.

Despite the fact that they are a growing immigrate block, Asian immigrants do not operate under the same pressure group model as to Latinos. Their desire is to integrate into the culture - thats why they came here. There is absolutely no excuse for someone who has been in this country to not speak English and there should be absolutely no tax payer money spent on facilitating maintaining the use of other languages as a primary form of communication. I personally know Mexican's who have been here well over 10 years who don't speak English. They should go home.

Mainstream means dominate culture, not White. In Panama the mainstream culture would be to speak Spanish. I France, French. Get it? Mainstream is the collective of mores and norms that are prevalent within a particular society. I gather you hate it, but the mainstream culture in the US is White Anglo Saxon. Sorry you dislike it, but thats what it is.

NAFTA? Mexico has been a resource rich state run on corrpution for well over 100 years, if not longer. The had a single political party, the PRI who corrupted industry, the judiciary and thawarted political opposition. Granted, the violence was not a component, but the corruption absolutely was.

If you are attempting to blame the problems within Mexico's economy on NAFTA you are grasping at straws. Mexico is a country that would have been hammered by globalization regardless of any treaty. NAFTA did not cause firms to pick up shop and move to China. NAFTA did move many jobs from the US to Mexico.

Regardless of any of this, there is no way that tax payer money nor a minute of public education time should be spent on material that encourages racial and group identity, period. 80% of the public schools in this country are failing, it is not that these schools are kicking ass in such a manner that they have the luxury of blowing time on this multi-cultural rubbish. Maybe thats OK with you. Get even more kids, and have them graduate from public school unable to properly read and write English with a firm grasp on all of the various reasons they should hate the US, poor math schools and let them loose on society.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Excellent reply! Other cultures have assimilated and are proud of being American and are respectful of our laws. Today it's all about the Latinos and what they want. All other cultures have learned and speak english. Today in many areas we are forced to speak spanish just to get hired for a job! There are too many special interest groups catering to Latinos, demanding their rights, their language, their history, their culture etc. We are a melting pot of cultures not just Latino.

reply to post by Night Star


First you had to make these arguments against the blacks.

Now you're after the peoples from the Latin Americas.

History doesn't lie. But remember that in the history books, you will be painted as the xenophobe. I bid you good day.

Excellent reply! Other cultures have assimilated and are proud of being American and are respectful of our laws.

Everyone assimilates, even you as you look smugly down upon people you feel have to assimilate. But don't let all this knowledge and fact keep you from your irrational dislike of brown people.

reply to post by Zamini


You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm a Hispanic immigrant. I was born in Costa Rica to Cuban parents.

I can tell you right now that Hispanics are the MOST resistant to assimilation into the dominant culture. They want to turn where ever they live into Mexico, or El Salvador, or Cuba, or Colombia...etc..

I know, I grew up in East LA and the Hispanic parts of Las Vegas. East LA might as well be Tijuana.