Economists: Gridlocked Congress "Playing With Fire" As Failure To Legislate Could Devastate Econom

reply to post by Sestias


Clinton did not plan the shutdown, he just took advantage of it to get re-elected. This administration appears to have been planning this shutdown since early last year. This could have been they saw they were not going to be popular in the 2010 elections so they decided to get a stunt ready that would help Obama in 2012.

I hope this is the case. Not that I think it will help, but I hope that is as sinister as it gets. I think our economy is in such a mess that it is on the verge of being classified as a "National Emergency". It just needs a little nudge.

Interesting thread.
Anyone here familiar with the English Civil War of the 17th century? It started after King Charles I suspended Parliament, because he could, and the Parliament later, under the leadership of Oliver Cromwell attempted to take over, and eventually the king was executed.

The king was wanting more and more taxes from the working poor, for "Ships Money" and the Parliament said no, so he basically furloughed them all. Well, then they (the Parliament) went home to their respective shires, and since they didn't have to answer to him anymore, they didn't collect the taxes. After a while he realized he couldn't do it alone, so he called them back in a limited session (Short Parliament).

That was when the SHTF for England. London was swarming with beggars, criminals, and displaced country folk. There were highwaymen robbing travellers, people living "off the grid" and killing and stealing from both the rich and the poor. People were starving to death, and no work could be found (the rich had largely enclosed what had once been common areas for grazing and growing things and timber, etc.) nor could they provide for their families.

That was when mass emigration to the "New World" really took off. That was when many of my maternal ancestors - on her father's side - came here in the first place.

But back to England's history: That was when Puritans (religious fanatics) started riots and it was a mess. It was a Civil War. It changed England forever. FOR EVER.

It is good to remember where we've all come from - how we got here - and not to dismiss the lessons of history.

DISCLAIMER: Other ancestors of mine came from other parts of the world - mostly northern Europe, some Irish potato famine victims, and some Scots. All of whom were run out their native lands by TPTW or forced to emigrate due to insufferable poverty and hardship.

reply to post by EssenceOfSilence


Do you have proof that the Democrats were planning a government shutdown? And if so, what could their possible motive be?

The fact is, every time the Democrats offer to compromise the Republicans move the goalpost. They keep increasing the number of cuts they're demanding. The Repubs and the Tea Party want nothing short of the complete dismantlement of all entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, and all safety net social programs for children and the poor. Meanwhile they are demanding yet more billions in tax cuts for the rich.

They are waging class war against the middle class and the poor, and they will stop nothing short of redistributing all the nation's wealth upward to the top 2% of the population. Makes sense, right? The needs and demands of 2% should trump the needs of the other 98%. Wrong!!!!!

The Dems have nothing at all to gain from a shutdown, but the GOP will get the cheers of the Tea Party if they do. The Repubs just flat out refuse to make ANY compromises whatsoever. They cannot seriously believe that they can buffalo America into the wreck they want to make of our country, but they will shut down the government if they can't get their way.

Its just a theory. ( This is a conspiracy theory site, so I try to read between lines and get to the reason for things not just what is happening at face value. )

Here is my reasoning:

1. Democrats chose not to pass a budget when they easily could have. (They had the same number of votes as they had to pass Obamacare, so there is no excuse) Have to ask yourself why? Why not do what you were voted in office to do when it is easy to do it - pass a budget.

2. Democrats waited until the last minute to even attempt to negotiate on some CRs etc. - Again why ? Just for show in my opinion, to say they tried.

3. Democrats know President Clinton came out smelling like a rose when they let the government shutdown last time. Even when Clinton himself vetoed it. They need it to work for Obama for 2012.

These things together makes me think they knew they would take a beating in 2010 and needed to have a plan for 2012.

Its a win-win for them - If it shuts down they can blame the tea party folks, if it doesn't they can take credit for stopping the shutdown. They care very little about anybody actually missing a paycheck, its all about staying in power.

Thanks for replies.

Originally posted by EssenceOfSilence


Here is my reasoning:

1. Democrats chose not to pass a budget when they easily could have. (They had the same number of votes as they had to pass Obamacare, so there is no excuse) Have to ask yourself why? Why not do what you were voted in office to do when it is easy to do it - pass a budget.

1. Democrats did not have the same number of votes that they had to pass Obamacare. At that time both the House and the Senate had Democratic majorities, whereas now the House is under Republican control.

2. Democrats could not "easily" pass the budget proposed by the House Republicans. It would decimate Medicare and savage Medicaid, education, public housing, public broadcasting, student loans, environmental protection, and a whole host of other crucial programs in this country, while giving billions more to the richest 2% of the population. It is not "easy" to give up the priorities that your party stands for.

The Republicans could just as easily accept the generous compromise the Democrats have offered. The Democrats have agreed to meet them halfway, but they won't be satisfied unless they get EVERYTHING they want, the whole enchilada. If they don't get everything they want then they will have a hissy fit and close the entire government down. They are acting like spoiled children who will throw a tantrum unless they get their way.

Dems have gone halfway. We are waiting for the Repubs to do the same.