Large Hole Tears Into Plane, 118 On Board

reply to post by RickyD


RickyD,

Just finished chatting with a pilot. He commented that while these airliners are relatively young...
(Southwest) that they are used frequently for long distance.

So as young are they are...they have lots of hours. In contrast, U.S. Air has more long distance flights.

I hope that helps, my guess is you will be just fine.



Edit to add yes, I got those numbers mixed up. Thanks for the correction

reply to post by burntheships


Kinda like the other poster said I just consign to the fact that if it's my time it's my time...

It's not my first flight but I normally don't use US Airlines I normally fly AA. I just hope they aren't using Chinese bolts
I'm actually quite comfortable flying I like it it feels great to be able to travel that fast (security aside ) I don't normally try to read up about the mishaps that go on. I remember during Thanksgiving time this year seeing a story on a plane that almost taxied into the way of a landing plane in Denver...he was about 20yrds from being impacted but when it's time to board I just put all that outta my mind turn my music on and try to sleep. I normally try to stay up all night before I fly so it's easy to nap on the plane that's my strategy (Sleep is poor mans time travel)

Good to know that info came from a pilot I figure if anyone knows what's up they would.

reply to post by RickyD


Good then, sleep safe.

Yes, that info came from a very experienced pilot who also has background
in aeronautics engineering...He knew about the bolts.

I have flown on Southwest before...they do the short flights, cheap.
Makes a lot of sense.

reply to post by burntheships

Yes, that info came from a very experienced pilot who also has background in aeronautics engineering...He knew about the bolts.....

Good to have that independently confirmed although my source was dependable. (Airline Mechanic)

reply to post by crimvelvet


As usual, crimvelvet, your posts sicken me. And I mean that as a compliment.

It is one thing to buy a hammer made in China (which I did) only to have the hammer head fly off, thankfully missing my head, at the first strike, and quite another to have industrial equipment using poor quality metal. A friend told me of a local govt buying cheaper Chinese irrigation pumps, then finding they were of such poor quality, they could only scrap them and buy the US made ones.

reply to post by RickyD


Outsourcing maintenance to other countries. So, another way for corps to avoid paying American workers.



Anybody know how old the 737 is? Weren't they the Fat Alberts I remember from the 1970s? And I remember back then they were used for short haul passenger flights; years later they were used for cross country passenger flights, which I thought was crazy, shaking around like inside a tin can when encountering severe weather.

reply to post by RickyD


To calm you, should it become necessary for the aircraft to make a water landing your seat cushion is a flotation device.

Don't worry, you have more of a chance being injured while taking a shower than flying commercially.

"mommy I'm bored, are we there yet?"

"just a few more hours sweety, why don't you play spongebob pinball on your iphone for now?"

"I don't wanna play spon...~ *BOOM!!!!!!!!!!* AAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

reply to post by burntheships


The post I made in the other thread about this story:

Metal fatigue, gone unnoticed in regular "heavy" maintenance inspections ('D' Checks).

Cycles. A 'cycle' is defined as one "flight", a take-of and landing.

Modern airliners are tracked by both total numbers of hours in use, and numbers of "cycles". A cycle is more stressful, over time, on the airframe. Not only the stresses of take-offs and landings, but the pressurization cycles too, for each flight.

Southwest airlines (originally) was a very short-haul air carrier...so its fleet was subjected to many cycles. Compared to, say....airliners that make flights that last longer....long-hauls, less frequently on a daily basis.

The FAA will be all over this, looking into that one airplane's maintenance history...AND Boeing, too. ONE thing I would first look at is the history of any past "hard landing" incidents. Anytime such a thing occurs.....usually a professional flight crew will "write it up" in the Logbook, which prompts Maintenance action, and inspection. BUT, things can get overlooked.....people are only Human.

Also, I will reckon that the breach happened at the joint, where the fuselage segments are mated together, in the assembly process.

(The fuselages for the B-737 are built in Wichita....each section is built, then they are connected together, the proper number to achieve the desired fuselage length. The cockpit and tail sections are distinct, and just attached as appropriate too, of course).

Here, a video showing what they look like, when still loaded onto the railcars that transport them from Kansas to the final assembly in Washington, near Seattle. You can see the joints, before it is painted with the airline paint scheme:

Final assembly in Renton (for further understanding of the processes involved):

Article on the contractor in Wichita:

www.spiritaero.com...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Sorry....fact check and correction:

Sounds like a similiar case of metal fatigue that caused that United Plane a decade or so to land in a corn field ...

IF you mean United flight 232, the DC-10 in Sioux City, Iowa? Well....metal fatigue/unnoticed manufacturing flaw, but of a different sort. IN the engine.....a turbine compressor spool hub had an undetected stress fracture , and let go under the extreme conditions of engine operation (They rotate as much as 10,000 RPM, in a very high heat environment). It was in in engine #2, the one mounted on the tail. Shrapnel from the disintegrating parts severed hydraulic fluid lines, and affected ALL THREE hydraulic systems.....they all three lost fluid.

The DC-10 flight controls require hydraulic fluid to operate.....they have no manual back-ups. The odds of all three going simultaneously were thought to be extremely improbable. But, that's the funny thing about "odds"....can still happen, anyhow. That area is one place where lines carrying fluid from all three separate hydraulic systems converged, physically near to each other. Hence, the damage was severe.

The crew (there was a dead-heading simulator instructor/pilot onboard, he went up front to help) devised a method of controlling the airplane, just by varying the remaining two engines' thrust settings. Since the stabilizer trim is ALSO hydraulically powered, that could not be changed.....nor could flaps/slats be extended Buy, the stab trim remained where it was last set, and gave them that stable aerodynamics. It really is astonishing they managed to get to where they did, almost making it to the runway. Got a bit of induced oscillations going, at he last second, and dipped a wing, and cartwheeled.

I was flying the DC-10 at that time....and we were able to see what it was like, in the simulator, in the scenario they faced. NOT pleasant, terrible feeling of no control, that you are used to.

United Airlines 232.

There are many videos on it, too. Oddly (and against rules) I found some with the actual CVR tape, from the last 20 seconds or so. And, yes....I can tell it was the real deal....

....and an aloha airlines flight a short while later to make an emergency landing...

That was a bit different....it WAS a Boeing 737, but a much older one. A -200. AND, the environment of the "Island Hoppers" is much more punishing, especially with the salt air, and corrosion potential. The fuselage failed at the joint where the cockpit section was assembled to the fist fuselage section. The story there is, the pressurization system was being operated manually, by the crew (the First Officer), because both 'automatic" modes were inoperative. There is some speculation (unconfirmed) that the crew (F.O.) mis-managed the pressure, and allowed it to exceed limits. There are over-pressure relief valves installed, that are spring-loaded closed, and should open when the pressure reaches a certain value.....but, they didn't operate. Probably corroded shut.

Aloha Airlines 243.


A bit more "dramatic" than the latest incident, at Southwest....:



BTW...Aloha happened in 1988.....before the United accident. (United was in 1989)...

Actually, from my last comment, are you guys at ATS onto liquid metal embrittlement technology at all? It was a really big deal some years ago, lots of classified research, some fielded applications as far back as when I was still in the Army, heck I even recall seeing it on one of those Discovery channel programs a couple of years back as an Easter egg where they waved it past you in a graphic but never so much as mentioned the name.

I get so used to some of this stuff I forget that it's not a widely discussed topic in the civilian world, but for all I know it's old hat here.

reply to post by kinda kurious



LOL.

.... your seat cushion is a flotation device.

Reminds me of this comedy skit, with "Omar", the president of a discount airline, in the UK....:

reply to post by weedwhacker


Thanks for the expert opinion WW. Having a former commercial pilot and aviation expert is a blessing in threads like this. Reminds me of:


Thank you kind sir.