Live now: German, Chinese and American vessels in Libyan waters.

Hey all, the past few days I have been posting on the thread Libyan pilots defect to Malta.

It started when the two jets landed at Malta.

Since then I have found myself in a place where everything is unfolding in front of my eyes. Please see serenecalamityz thread for the back information.

I felt that this needed its own thread due the fact I feel my 'sources' who are more like acquaintances, friends of friends and people I have spoken with whom have a certain position where they have the info have credibility with their 'claims'.

Firstly I posted earlier at around 1800 about Maltese authorities refusing permission for a plane to land for suspicions of having Gaddafi's daughter on board.
This is now being reported for the first time on Al Jazeera about 15 minutes ago - so gave me a certain belief in the credibility (to a certain point) of the things I am being told.

At the same time I received a phone call telling me about what was happening at the Excelsior Hotel in Floriana / Valletta, Malta.

I had been in the hotel for several hours earlier and witnessed some strange goings on when there, and the call came from the person that I was with and stayed after I had left there.

When there I saw German Air force in the lobby and by the time I had left there were Journalists checking in and there was a certain commotion and an air of urgency lingering around.

I have now been informed that the hotel is full and there is no space in the lobby (which is fairly large) full of people with "International S.O.S" on the back of their jackets.

German, Chinese and American ships are now entering Libyan waters and are to be supported with British fighters to protect them although they have no authorisation to enter Libyan airspace.

Now these ships are thought to be Navy, but this cannot and has not been confirmed. However, in my perception it does make sense if the rumours regarding Gaddafi manoeuvring his ships targeted at Tripoli are true.

They are there as an estimated 1.5 million people are to be evacuated immediately and this is why the ships are there with protection,

I will of course update if I learn of anything else.

Please do not take this as the 'truth' this is what I have been told and I can’t confirm all of it.

I have seen some of this with my own eyes and other information has turned out to be confirmed later on independently, so I thought I would put it out there,

I hope this goes ok and withers out soon, it does seem to have gone very international, very violent, very quick

Peace

Thanks for posting this....of course anything you can dig up is welcome...the situation is very grave for a lot f people and information is golden.
Thanks again s

The US Navy has no large ships in that area, no Carrier Strike Groups or Amphibious Ready Groups. There could be some smaller ships like destroyers there. They are unsuited for evacuation issues, but they could provide support for those that are.

International SOS is a company that provides medical and security support and related logistical consulting for companies and organizations operating out of country.

Originally posted by LestatG

They are there as an estimated 1.5 million people are to be evacuated immediately and this is why the ships are there with protection,

That is one hell of a lot of people if this is accurate. I cannot even begin to imagine how one would go about evacuating 1.5 million people.

I mean really, just think about it, how would one prevent chaos with even a tenth of that amount of already panicked people.

I hope you are wrong...........

Alright, great info, thanks for your input. Malta has been mentioned as the destination for ferries and other vessels evacuating foreign nationals from Libya. Has anyone else seen or heard the 1.5 million number anywhere else. I know there aren't that many American's there and that's really all the US MSM has said about foreign nationals in Libya. I pretty much figured that there would be orders of magnitude higher numbers of Europeans, but 1.5 million people to evacuate? I could easily see a potential of refugees in that number, but I'd think that would spread in all directions not bottle necked through Malta.

Anyway, keep the reports coming. I appreciate anyone willing to put unfiltered info out.

Germany, America and China? Acting unilaterally or collaboratively? Quite an interesting alliance, if they are working together? Wow! This Cosmic wave of unity is even effecting the matrix itself! Yes! Of COURSE IT WOULD!!

1.5 million seems like a lurid exaggeration. The population of Libya itself is only a little over 6 million. Is someone claiming 25% of the country be evacuated? C'mon! Not possible.

I was wondering if Obama was pointing to possible war with Libya, should the violence continue, he certainly didn't rule it out. It would probably be an amitious though good political move on his part, maybe?

Hey all thanks for the responses.

I too was told (by my Dad), that there are no ships in the area, he said that the British Cumberland/Cumbria (I think) was near but on its way home to be decommissioned so not up for much action.

Thanks for the link on S.O.S, I have never heard of them before.

When taking a step back and thinking about it a moment, 1.5ml is a very large amount of people, the logistics would be unreal. Maybe you are right, that figure does sound huge - let’s see. I see news reports stating each country may have tens of thousands but no mention of millions anywhere.

I too would like to wrong, as the more I am seeing the more concerned I am becoming. There are some dreadful videos being shown here.

Again thanks for the input and replies, I am just glad I can make a contribution. There is a lot of suffering and now seems a lot of manoeuvring.

Peace

Well, it's not too far fetched. Obama just called for an international response, so it seems it would add up.

www.cnn.com...

reply to post by schuyler


I saw a news report somewhere (yesterday?) which quoted a senior military figure, part of Egypt's temporary leadership team, who was quoted as saying that Egypt had an estimated 1.5 million citizens inside Libya, he gave advice for them to stay indoors and stock up on food and water. It was in the context of the troop movements (Libyan withdrawal and egyptian surge) at the Libyan Egyptian border, and the surge in refugees there from Eastern Libya.

It appears that there are likely to be thousands of foreign nationals still there from many other countries.

I was certainly concerned about the news that evacuation ships are now getting stranded in port or just off-shore due to severe weather in the Med. They are far too close for comfort to the mainland, let alone air or sea forces IF Gaddafi has any?

I am also deeply concerned that those in the 'liberated' Eastern Libya, and indeed neihbouring countries are at high risk of some kind of (Scud type) attack (bio/chem/explosive) from this furious tyrant.

The committee will monitor the flow of migrants to Italy. According to reports in the Italian press, the Italian Government believes that between 200,000-300,000 migrants may seek to reach Italy if conditions in Libya continue to worsen.

300.000 refugees

300K of people is still an immense quantity of people. Commentators compare turmoil in North Africa and ME to the 1989 disruption of communist regimes all over East Europe.

The US State Department is beginning to evacuate US citizens to Malta by ferry boat: So what if the link is Fox?

reply to post by LestatG
in the UK they said they were sending a destroyer in to evacuate British citizens but they was going to ask permit ion first

reply to post by schuyler


I saw one of the cruise liners come to port this morning from my home, later found out that was from Libya with US nationals and some French workers.

(great humour with the link name) I forgot to smile most of the day,

Thanks

Originally posted by surrealist
I was wondering if Obama was pointing to possible war with Libya, should the violence continue, he certainly didn't rule it out. It would probably be an amitious though good political move on his part, maybe?

I just don't see it myself. The US has no significant assets in the area. It would take at least a week to get one of the Ararbian Gulf carriers up into the Med through the Suez. The only nearby Amphibious Ready Group is the Kearsarge now in the Red Sea, but it is short 1500 Marines it lent to Afghanistan. There are no Army forces anywhere near. And it would take weeks to get any other carriers nearby because all the East Coast carriers are at or near Norfolk, Virginia.

And the thing is, carrriers don't cut it. All they are is calvary with no infantry support. They carry a bunch of F/A-18s that are certainly capable of establishing air superiority and bombing the crap out of a country, but I doubt that is what anyone wants at this stage. When the US went into Iraq (the second time) the entire 2nd Army--all of it--was sitting in a port in Turkey waiting for permission it never got to invade from the North. The entire Third Army--all of it--was sitting in Kuwait which, as it turned out, was more than adequate for the job. No such situation exists in or near Libya. It would take the US months to prepare. We don't have months; we don't even have weeks.

And for what? Yet a third operation? I get a kick out of the UN batting around the idea that the UN should create a no fly zone in Libya and the US can support it. Thanks, UN, but how about YOU support it? Call in the Italian Air Force. The fact is, we're too busy right now. You can't complain that the US is into everybody's business and then turn around and call on the US every time something happens to bail somebody out.

And besides, I think Obama is too gutless to even think about it.

reply to post by schuyler


So by what you say logistically it’s impossible, and I believe you are right with the time frame this is happening now.

I feel another country other than the US will step in, unfortunately I can see an international incident just waiting to happen, it seems that everything is in a state were something even more dreadful that what is going on now can happen,

Anyway, unfortunately I have to sleep been up since 6am and its gone 2, have to be back up at 6 again.

'See' you in the morning

Peace

deleted

reply to post by Hundroid


That's 300,000 immigrants of Libyan nationality expected by Italy (is that just into Italy?) ON TOP of the 1.5 million Egyptians and thousands of other foreign nationals potentially trying to flee - I think, and they, their transportation and routes are increasingly at risk from Gadaffi lashing out, possibly with WMD (chem/bio).

Commentators compare turmoil in North Africa and ME to the 1989 disruption of communist regimes all over East Europe.

I certainly think history will mark these events as of at least equal significance, which in itself could pose difficult questions for China and other non-democracies, dictatorships and human rights abusers.

Unlike the collapse of the Eastern block, there are significant differences I think, which may include:

- A far higher amount of foreign interests (financial, strategic and political) having been disrupted or threatened in the ME than EB? And involving competing and hostile continental concerns. I am sure that at the time the EB didn't harbour the kind of international investment/interests the ME does now.

- The potential of hostile parties (either existing - such as Gadaffi - or future developments of any of the destabilised states) to disrupt major trade routes and fuel supply resources (e.g. another oil well burn, scorched earth, or civil wars...) is surely very different?

- In the EB collapse, weren't all eyes on Russia, the hostile (nuclear armed) nation left feeling 'surrounded' and looking a little paranoid, now, in the ME is Israel' in a similarly paranoid looking position, or could a possible Sunni/Shi-ite conflict/escalation emerge, or both?


- When the EB fell there was no internet, flash cards, or laptops, and hardly any mobile phones,, and I think that many nations, beyond the ME will be very concerned about the incredible viral nature of these rebellions, not least China, who now have a far larger and wealthier population, and far more importance and influence on the world's economic, political and strategic fortunes? Won't these ME nations be entering, and shaping, a very different world stage of influence, power, and super-power?