"Deny Ignorance" -- The Sad Double Entendre of the ATS Motto

This is really just a bit of an observation. Maybe it has no place as a thread, but in reading much of what gets posted in any forum tinged by politics, it is clear we really are an ignorant lot. Too many cannot even make the distinction between facts and opinions, because their every insight is viewed through a warped religio-political prism.

Climate change? If your thinking is first informed by a pundit on a news/politics show, you have already succombed to being played like harp. This is an issue of science and fact, so if your "opinion" was in any way fiirst influenced by a political (or religious, now arguably one and the same on the Right) bias, your view is invalid. I don't go to a doctor to get an explanation of my car's problems. I don't go to my kid's Spanish teacher to inform me about the space program. Why do you go to a political pundit to set your baseline reasoning for matters of science?

This same fallacy is being played out in any number of issues (see: evolution, etc.), where facts are now routinely swept aside because people chose the FIRST view everything through a religio-political prism.

So back to the motto: "Deny Ignorance." I need to ask the site owners, where you aware that the ATS mottos plays equally true both ways; that it holds opposite meanings with equal truth in the definitions?

So, at ATS do we really "deny ignorance" a foothold in our discussions and in our lives, or do we just "deny ignorance" exists in the site? Both ways are valid interpretations of the motto and sadly the former seems to be achieving a stranglehold.

Originally posted by pajoly

So back to the motto: "Deny Ignorance." I need to ask Slayer and the site owners, where you aware that the ATS mottos plays equally true both ways; that it holds opposite meanings with equal truth in the definitions?

Slayer isn't the site owner.

And yes... Deny ignorance is a very confusing motto. I won't deny you that.

Funny I was just reading a thread on ATS what that motto mean...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Vandalour


Thanks. Had not seen that.

reply to post by pajoly


I have started at least two threads on this exact topic. They never got past my delete button to get lit up in electrons on other ABS screens. "Deny Ignorance" is a horrible, horrible motto as it stands. Perhaps it is merely those critically minded folks of us that see that as the epitome of many of the responses on ATS. Regardless it DOES have a double meaning.

I scount around quite a bit on the UFO, astronomy and psi related threads. It is astounding the amount of ignorance that people unknowingly profess! Even if we want to blame the explanation--and I do some extent--on high schoolers trying rub shoulders with the mature audience, it is still the same problem. Meaning, what are they NOT teaching these days?

I would wager that if there is one area that drives people away from ATS, it is the widespread the ignorance and crudeness of many posters. It seems that to include "WTF" into a title or a posting makes it and cool.

I know little about GLP. If it is defunct, I couldn't care less. It was a good place for the punks. But ATS should be concerned that not too many of them transfer their bad manners to ATS. I would suggest that in an effort to forestall such shifts that ATS institutes a strong public and honest display of dumping the "Deny Ignorance" motto to something a bit more intelligent sounding and starting some measures that hold headlines to better journalist standards than does the tableoids.

Some of those resoundings to this will trot out the usual, old solution: "Hit the delete button for what you find displeasurable." But finding yourself deleting post after post can lead to deleteing the subscription entirely. Actually, a good first step as has been suggested in Rants, is to bring back the Ignore icon.

Obviously Deny Ignorance can go both ways, one person says your ignorant for not percieving the possibility that 911 could have been staged and the other says I will deny your ignorance in thinking that 911 was staged.
With a slogan like deny ignorance all one can ever do is continue an eternal debate putting up points for either side of any argument.
I like to think of the slogan more so as meaning keep an open mind because if anything is ever going to defy ignorance it is science and if there is anyone on this site who studies the sciences they will know that science is never fact and can always be proven wrong or improved.
I like the slogan and will continually wiegh and measure points from all sides.

reply to post by pajoly


I wholeheartedy agree. Judging by the quality of thought the majority of posts on this site show, most people seem to think the motto means "Deny that I am ignorant", which is another way of saying "I choose to never learn anything new".

I am continually flabbergasted by the shear magnitude of poor thinking one finds in any discussion of the controversial. People stake out their ideological territories and fiercely defend them by flinging poo -- I mean 'ink' -- like the domesticated apes they are. People would much rather _look_ like they are right rather than _be_ right. The former means never saying "I was wrong", the later means saying it continually.

And of course this is all exacerbated by the pernicious siren-song of certainty. I rarely if ever see someone state "I'm 70% sure that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is correct". Instead I see reams of "I'm positive/I believe/I know that global warming is a hoax/reptiloids run the world/jews are behind it all". It's like, once someone becomes convinced that something is probably true or false, they accept it as such 100% of the way.

Instead of "Denying Ignorance" we should be HUNTING it. "I don't know" is the start of all wisdom. "What's the deal with UFOs? Are they fake, aliens, humans, ultraterrestials, 'earthlights', or something else?" Say it with me now: "I don't know. It seems likely that _something_ weird is going on, but beyond that, I remain ignorant."

There's only one thing I'm certain of here: if someone says "I Know The Answer!", they're probably trying to sell you something and you should hold onto your wallet.

Originally posted by LetsTouch
I like the slogan and will continually wiegh and measure points from all sides.

I wish more people here would do that...

Reply to post by pajoly

So denying ignorance is agreeing with you, because one is obviously ignorant if one does not follow the leaders.



No thanks.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


I am sorry, but that is just, well, an ignorant response that makes no sense with respect to the thread. My post was pretty straight forward: "deny ignorance" has two distinct, but diametrically opposed possible definitions. Apparently, you are not bright enough to get that little concept.

How could anyone with half a brain construe what I said having anything to do with agreeing or not agreeing with anything. But, you do make the point well about the rampant nonsensical posts on ATS, so thanks for that.

Reply to post by pajoly

Reread what your OP says.

If we do not go with the "science and facts," we are ignorant.

Typical global warming (now renamed climate change) promoter.

No thanks.

Your facts tell you different than what my facts tell me.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

The site motto appears to often be interpreted as "anything goes" and/or "deny anything skeptics bring forward". It's probably well-meaning and intended to attract a certain caliber of individual, though I find an alarming amount of ignorance present throughout ATS.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
If we do not go with the "science and facts," we are ignorant.

Yes, exactly. If you do not know the facts, you are ignorant. If you do not use science to find those facts, you likely haven't found them at all.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Your facts tell you different than what my facts tell me.

That's because you are talking about opinions, not facts. _I_ don't "have" facts and neither do you. What makes something factual, what makes something _real_, is that it remains the case regardless of who is perceiving the situation.

The motto should read: "Claim what you will, just follow the Terms & Conditions".