Artificial Gold?

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

Maybe some day this will make gold and other metals as common as lead (so much for a fixed gold standard if so)

Well, then austrian economic theories would simply have to use some other substance for currency backing. What about antimatter backed currency, or bottom quark standard?

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Yukitup

 

They are not CREATING gold it is just a different refining method.

www-pls.llnl.gov...

...In selective dealloying, the more electrochemically active element is dissolved, leaving behind a sponge-like morphology of interconnecting ligaments made from the less electrochemically active element (Figure 1). Using dealloying, we have prepared nanoporous gold (Au) samples by selective electrolytic dissolution of silver (Ag) from various Au/Ag alloys.....

I did something similar in College many years ago . The process goes all the way back to the Incas.

CREATING gold on the other hand means taking three protons off of lead and you get gold or one proton of mercury and you get gold.

I thought that was what you were talking about.

This does nothing to the value of gold as a Monetary Standard.

Thanks CV -- but check the OP again, it states that they are manipulating atoms!

It appears that dealloying of Au Alloys is just one method for this:

Dealloying of Templated Au Alloys:
One method for making nanoporous metals is called dealloying. In this method, an alloy of gold and a less-noble (more reactive) metal is prepared (usually an alloy of copper and gold or silver and gold), where enough less-noble metal is present in the alloy that it forms a continuous percolating network throughout the gold. The alloy is then etched electrochemically to selectively remove the less-noble metal from the gold, leaving behind a porous gold framework. Dealloying can also be done chemically using acids. Generally, though, this only works for thin (

reply to post by Maslo

TPTB could create a new artificial metal (not yet on the periodic table) and control its supply and use it to back currencies (like gold of old)....something like say "Unobtainium."

Slightly off topic but stimulated by the picture in the original post. Did anyone else take note of when those Gold Vending Machines were introduced? Virtually right at the top of the market in gold (so far anyway). It is an investing axiom: the public always gets left holding the bag at the top....Not that we have seen The Top - just a top.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
Slightly off topic but stimulated by the picture in the original post. Did anyone else take note of when those Gold Vending Machines were introduced? Virtually right at the top of the market in gold (so far anyway). It is an investing axiom: the public always gets left holding the bag at the top....Not that we have seen The Top - just a top.

Star! Gold dispensing ATMs.... Wow. Missed that in my disbelief over manipulating atoms... Nice catch -- and where would one put a Gold dispensing ATM???

What is the purpose of a gold dispensing ATM? Who would use it??

reply to post by Yukitup


I do not know if this is a communication problem or not. I am a chemist and my spouse is a physicist. To us CREATING is increasing the number of gold atom in the world by transmuting another element on the periodic chart to gold.

This is NOT what was done according to Lawrence Livermore in the science article referenced. To put it bluntly the journalist never took a science course in high school and hasn't the foggiest idea what he is talking about!


Again from the actual research article the journalist references:

Synthesis and Characterization of Nanoporous Metal Foam

Among the most interesting accomplishments of materials science is the design and synthesis of new materials with engineered properties. Cellular materials—in particular, nanoporous metal foam—are one example....

Scientific Impact

Prior to our discovery, the general belief in the field was that there was no recrystallization during dealloying, and therefore the nanoporous foam was composed of single-crystal ligaments. We have shown for the first time that nanoporous foam synthesized by dealloying (free-corrosion or electrochemically driven) is composed of nanocrystalline ligaments.

We also introduced a two-step dealloying/compaction process to produce nanocrystalline monolithic gold (Figure 3). The compacted nanocrystalline gold exhibits an average grain size of less than 10 nm and hardness values of up to 4.5 times higher than the values obtained from polycrystalline gold. This two-step process presents an alternative route to producing monolithic nanocrystalline metals.
Related Publications

J. Biener, et al., “Nanoporous Au—a High Yield Strength Material,” J. Appl. Phys. 97, 024301 (2005).

A.M. Hodge, et al., “Monolithic Nanocrystalline Au Fabricated by the Compaction of Nanoscale Foam,” J. Mater. Res. 20, 554 (2005).

Contact: Alex Hamza [bio], 925-423-9198, [email protected]


From the sidebar:
New Frontiers

Nanoporous gold foam is an example of a material that can be synthesized with engineered properties. Creating the foam with pores less than 100 nm through dealloying opens the possibility for many applications. For example, nanoporous gold foam could be used for research on surfaceenhanced Raman spectroscopy. Currently, gold and silver nanoparticles help to enhance Raman scattering, and more recently, the use of gold nanoshells has been shown to significantly further increase the Raman scattering. The study of nanoporous foam as Raman enhancers and their comparison to nanoshells presents an interesting and technologically challenging project that could impact both the medical and scientific fields.... www-pls.llnl.gov...

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Yukitup

 

I do not know if this is a communication problem or not. I am a chemist and my spouse is a physicist. To us CREATING is increasing the number of gold atom in the world by transmuting another element on the periodic chart to gold.

This is NOT what was done according to Lawrence Livermore in the science article referenced. To put it bluntly the journalist never took a science course in high school and hasn't the foggiest idea what he is talking about!

Thanks CV -- good point regarding the journalist, Christine Dell'Amore:

Christine Dell'Amore (spring 02) - Graduate student in environmental journalism at the University of Colorado . Also a freelance writer for Boulder Magazine, Boulder Daily Camera and the Denver Post. Formerly a communication officer for World Wildlife Fund in Washington , D.C.

From www.bsos.umd.edu... Most of her current articles with Nat Geo seem focused in one way or another on the environment...

So she wrote in the OP:

He was partly right—in modern times, scientists have manipulated atoms to create synthetic gold in the lab, and it's an ongoing project at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory.

I'll see if I can contact her to clarify who/when/how atoms were manipulated to create synthetic gold in which/where lab. She seems to be clarifying that it is ongoing at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, though the article cited does specify dealloying...



Paul Israel is quoted as saying:

Overall, the idea of artificial gold doesn't seem that surprising now, when "we're creating all sorts of insane materials," Israel said.

"This notion that one can create artificial gold is sort of mundane compared to what we're creating in the present day."

Dr. Israel earned his PH D in History, and has written extensively on Edison: edison.rutgers.edu...

While he does indeed use the term "create," he is no chemist or physicist...

Originally posted by crimvelvet
I do not know if this is a communication problem or not. I am a chemist and my spouse is a physicist. To us CREATING is increasing the number of gold atom in the world by transmuting another element on the periodic chart to gold.

Yes, it's not uncommon for a reporter who is not a scientist to totally misunderstand what the scientists have done, apparently it's happened yet again.

I think gold was made back in 1980 according to your definition:

Overview of Alchemy

Modern science has tried to make the "myths" of alchemy attainable with the latest technology. The first example of this was "in 1919, when Ernest Rutherford converted nitrogen into oxygen."..."In 1980, scientists at the University of California at Berkeley used a particle accelerator to change a small amount of bismuth into gold. The project cost [about] $10,000." (Source: Levene, Trevor H. Transforming Matter: A History of Chemistry from Alchemy to the Buckyball.)

I'm sure we can guess that the gold produced for $10,000 had a value far less than $10,000 which is why there's no commercial gold manufacturing, but we have shown it can be manufactured more expensively than it can be mined and refined.

There's a twilight zone episode where some bandits hide their gold and sleep for a century. When they wake up, they think they'll be rich but they find that gold can be manufactured inexpensively so the gold probably isn't worth any more than copper, maybe less since in abundance it might not have as many commercial applications as copper. I've often wondered if in a century, a cheap manufacturing process may be found to make gold. Obviously it's not easy or we might have found it by now, but who knows? It may be possible.

double post

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thanks Arb -- $10K doesn't sound like that much, though I am sure that the amount of gold that "created" was minuscule...

Of course, that wouldn't include the cost of building the particle accelerator, but I wonder how much gold could be created on an annual basis by a dedicated particle accelerator and unlimited access to energy. Not that our gov has the resources to do such a thing, but...

reply to post by Arbitrageur

I've often wondered if in a century, a cheap manufacturing process may be found to make gold. Obviously it's not easy or we might have found it by now, but who knows? It may be possible.

I would think that if TPTB ever get off their duffs and allow thorium micro nuclear power generators, ($2,500 investment per house hold gives 30 - 40 years of electric) then desalinization of sea water becomes viable, the deserts bloom and we can recover minerals dissolved/suspended in the sea water.

....The simplest of these is the enormous volume of the oceans. To illustrate this point, it can be calculated that the oceans contain 8 x 106 tons of dissolved gold (value: about $1.1 x 1014) even though the gold content of sea water is only 6 x 10-10 % by weight... www.dartmouth.edu...

Of course you are talking nanograms...

I have always been interested in ancient alchemy and I love having conversations about it with my friends.

A friend of mine recently told me about a site that someone told him about.

It claims to have a completed Artificial Gold Technology.

Apparently the technology was picked up from a guy in his garage and the company brought some heavy hitter scientists on board to develop it.

The site says the technology was perfected by a PhD from the Los Alamos National Laboratory

The site is www.cultured-gold.com

Thought the group would find it interesting

This is nothing new, the reason you won't hear about exploiting radioactive atoms to turn into gold is because it doesn't pay off. Gold would have to rack up in value, a lot, before anyone could see this profitable.

Great thread OP .... poster who mentioned 'it would have to rack up etc....' hmmm well that appears to be happening more steadily now and if pundits such as Jim Sinclair are to be believed then in a couple of years with sustained QE 12,500 is possible, but I digress....

Aside from waking up a hundred years from now and finding gold not so valuable....if artificial gold were available right now I would for pure snob/authenticity value be holding the older stuff , fairly uncirculated and with historical and original gold value. I'm not a gold snob but would doubt and be suspicious if this artificial stuff came into being and for that reason would always insist on historical coins etc.

On another point a poster made regarding the cost of manufacturing and quantity produced , well , given the current debt in the U.S. and their ability (at the moment) to print money ad infinitum I wouldn't think cost would be a worry if god forbid Fort knox needs replenishing and this is how they go about it.

Originally posted by 1000togo
A friend of mine recently told me about a site that someone told him about.

It claims to have a completed Artificial Gold Technology.

Apparently the technology was picked up from a guy in his garage and the company brought some heavy hitter scientists on board to develop it.

The site says the technology was perfected by a PhD from the Los Alamos National Laboratory

The site is www.cultured-gold.com

Thought the group would find it interesting

Interesting indeed! Here's their introduction to that site:

Cultured Gold is the same thing as Artificial Gold. Artificial Gold can be understood technologically by understanding Cultured Diamonds, or Artificial Diamonds. This video pretty much sums up what our technology does, except we do it with gold. For a more detailed understanding of Artificial Metal Technologies, please visit our News section.

All of the gold on earth originally came from space by exploding stars, or supernovas. Supernovas explode and create gold in gas form. Over long periods of time, these gold gas atoms settle as solids on the earth. This is the origin of all gold on the planet. Our technology replicates this natural process in the laboratory. We capture gold in gas form and are able to solidify it.

Gold as a gas?! Where are they capturing this "gas?"