Antediluvian Civilizations and more

reply to post by Xcathdra



no, thats the great part. noone can hide anything. they say its on dry land. all of central europe was a sea at the end of the ice age. its mentioned here in this history channel program in the 6th minute. there are some maps in my gallery. i haven't tried to put one in a post yet. seems like a hassle.

just to give an example of how science misses things.. there is this city called iarcuri [googlemap] they just found. you can see it clearly from the major highway in western romania. there are 1800hectares inside its wall and its wall is 100m across. now troy has 45hectares maybe. hattusa 180, babylon 600 and rome at it height 1400hectares. this city was built in 1400bc. on the next hill over there is a new but special roundel that is 550m across [actually its bigger because it looks like a lightbulb].

things change quick. the atlantis men are from the national geological institute of romania by the way.

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by something wicked

 

so you are one of those guys that thinks they are real smart and just can't bear to be shown they know nothing huh. i like it when people teach me something but you type, you ignore and run away like little kiddies.

edit on 11-2-2011 by Parta because: nudity

No, actually I asked if you had specific records that have provenance which speak about the Atlantis Plato referred to in a fictional work. You then started telling me what Noahs ark was. You may hold really interesting views about that but it wasn't what I asked.

reply to post by something wicked


well actually i gave you the exact material you should read. if i send you to something i would like to, then its your game to say its cherry picked. but if i tell you what to look for and you look for yourself and see... which you assume someone has infact done before but noone ever has... and you actually ever did, then its all good.

i try to talk science with you [good old orthodox science] and you seem to run away. can we talk science? i feel much more comfortable with that.

ps. i'm guessing that noahs ark thing would qualify as a revolution. are you a big boat person?

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

 

wow throwing wiki at me. you is a scholar.

What, you expected someone to conduct independent research just for you? Seems a bit conceited.

dear high school math teacher and self proclaimed failed atlantologist who hasn't read 1/1000 of the books i've read: it seems highly likely to you that the people of atlas near the pillars of hercules surrounding a hill with a sandbar are not the same in plato and herodotus? and you're just not going to talk about it anymore? and noone but plato talks about atlantis?

Correct, no one but Plato talks about Atlantis as we understand the concept today - a seafaring nation-state that went to war with Athens (oddly, roughly 8,000 years before there WAS an Athens, but hey.) As others have pointed out, Atlantis, Atlantenes, et all, are derivatives of "Atlas." There are the Atlas mountains in western north Africa. This region was more or less the edge of the known world for Greeks, Egyptians, and those who drew from them. Thus the name becomes something that means "a far-away place." And the reason Plato latches onto this is because his heroic Republic - Athens - needed an evil despotism; but using an actual nation would get people all pedantic, so he conjured "A land far, far away," and named it after the fathest place - the Atlas mountains.

Basic reasoning ability, you know?

the core of the atlantis myth is a large city on a freshwater sea and the cow pen at gadiera [thats why gadiera is mentioned at all]. those 3 elements are in the story of yima, the enki and his bolts and the abzu, ra and hs hidden circles and ptahs enclosure. that is a fact. sorry mathman.

'Cause if you throw a bunch of only slightly-related mythologies together with a bunch of Edgar Cayce's ramblings about a fictional land created by Plato to sell his book, IT ALL BECOMES TRUE!

as a high school math teacher you don't actually know whats going on in the world of archaeology do you. pop over to the university of tennessee and ask them about iarcuri.

I did a little reading on this place. So far all I can find is a bunch of self-referencing sources that all say that the place is Atlantis. None of them the least bit scholarly. What source are you using here? 'Cause seems to me you're just regurgitating from crystal links or something.

foxy

What, you expected someone to conduct independent research just for you? Seems a bit conceited.

it is conceited to expect someone to know the basic facts. has wiki become something schools accept as basic fact? i am conceited because when i look at wiki and even check their own sources i see they contradict each other. oceanus in wiki is salt water and it quotes theoi. when i go to theoi it says oceanus is fresh water. wiki is wrong on a very basic thing. it goes on and on.

Correct, no one but Plato talks about Atlantis as we understand the concept today - a seafaring nation-state that went to war with Athens (oddly, roughly 8,000 years before there WAS an Athens, but hey.) As others have pointed out, Atlantis, Atlantenes, et all, are derivatives of "Atlas." There are the Atlas mountains in western north Africa. This region was more or less the edge of the known world for Greeks, Egyptians, and those who drew from them. Thus the name becomes something that means "a far-away place." And the reason Plato latches onto this is because his heroic Republic - Athens - needed an evil despotism; but using an actual nation would get people all pedantic, so he conjured "A land far, far away," and named it after the fathest place - the Atlas mountains.

Basic reasoning ability, you know?

the atlas mountains in africa where colonized by hyperboreans called the getuli [getae]. atlas was a pretty famous hyperborean.

herodotus says "atlantis" and describes it as being named for atlas, having people dwelling round a hill, near the pillars of hercules and there is a mighty sandbar. this is exactly as in plato . in critias plato doesn't say "atlantis' in greek once. atlantida, atlantidi, atlantikon pelagous. so atlantes is a real problem? en francais atlantis est atlantes

'Cause if you throw a bunch of only slightly-related mythologies together with a bunch of Edgar Cayce's ramblings about a fictional land created by Plato to sell his book, IT ALL BECOMES TRUE!

no its because okeanos potamos is okeanos potamos. just like all the stories written today with danube in them ARE related. its a geographical known thing. thats basic reasoning.

I did a little reading on this place. So far all I can find is a bunch of self-referencing sources that all say that the place is Atlantis. None of them the least bit scholarly. What source are you using here? 'Cause seems to me you're just regurgitating from crystal links or something.

you is a scolar too?
first report by westerners

this is funny

and ps for the record... i was there in 1990.

It wonderful if Plato had been talking about an actual place and not just a made up place, however so far all of the research I have done into the subject has not yielded much more than that Plato may have drawn from many different actual places as references to his made up Atlantis.

Crete has many similarities to the Atlantis in Plato’s description, but it is not an exact match. There are even places in South America that have a similarity to Plato’s description of Atlantis, though not an exact match. Even Cuba has some geographical resemblance to Plato’s description of Atlantis. There are others as well.

There could be many reasons for these places having similarities to the Atlantis Plato describes.

1. Plato drew from these places to create his Atlantis that he describes.
2. It is just coincidence that these places are similar to what Plato describes.
3. We try to draw similarities where there really are none.

There are probably others that are not coming to me right now as well.

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

 

wow throwing wiki at me. you is a scholar.

dear high school math teacher and self proclaimed failed atlantologist who hasn't read 1/1000 of the books i've read: it seems highly likely to you that the people of atlas near the pillars of hercules surrounding a hill with a sandbar are not the same in plato and herodotus? and you're just not going to talk about it anymore? and noone but plato talks about atlantis?

I quote and link you to Plato and Herodotus, both of which I note you failed to quote from when making your claims about both writers. Yet you "fire back" with my simple link to the wiki page on the Titan Atlas?

What, do you think someone has conspired to tell a false story about Atlas on Wiki?

As to the rest, it's true. I never read the Nancy Drew series. I envy you.

Secondly, I also teach Physics.

Third, Herodotus says, after listing several African peoples living along the coast of the Mediterreanean:

Thus then have been mentioned those nomad Libyans who live along the sea-coast: and above these inland is the region of Libya which has wild beasts; and above the wild-beast region there stretches a raised belt of sand, extending from Thebes of the Egyptians to the Pillars of Heracles

Inland. In Africa. A raised belt of sand, on dry ground, not a sand bar (which Plato doesn't state - he merely says the seas were impassable in the area AFTER Atlantis sank.) Is that where we are to find Atlantis then? What was it, a translation error? Plato says Atlantis sank beneath the ocean (which, BTW, is salty.) You're saying that what Plato meant to say was that Atlantis picked up and moved to the mainland of Africa?

You realize, don't you, that Plato compared Atlantis to Africa (Libya)? Obviously, Plato's Atlantis was not in Africa. It was bigger than Africa (Libya) and Asia combined:

the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean.

Source: Critias

Did you read your thousand books in braille? I mean, you couldn't even read the quote from Herodotus correctly, Mister Superreader.

Parta, the measure of intellect doesn't rest on the number of books a person has read, though I've read more than my share.

I suspect the only books you've read are the ones you can find that can be twisted to somehow agree with your sickly warped worldview.

Lastly, Herodotus is speaking in the present tense. Why would he do this when supposedly speaking of a civilization that was wiped out 8,500 years before he was even born?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


do you think that wiki on atlas is a good sumation? really? and you failed atlantology why? i never failed physics or atlantology.

plato says atlantikon pelagous. look up pelagous at perseus... thats the flooded plain of atlas and its fresh water by example from herodotus as perseus says. theoi says .... In the Hellenistic era, Okeanos was redefined as the god of the newly accessible Atlantic and Indian Oceans, and the old cosmological idea of a great, earth-encircling, fresh-water stream was discarded.

now harte you know i don't think atlantis is in africa. when you do look at a map what do you see thats as big as libya and asia combined. its europe isn't it. where okeanos potamos is. where all the maps in my gallery show.

a sea filled the middle danube at the end of the ice age. should an atlantologist like you [however failed] have known that? should your average earth scientist know that? they don't. i must read better books. you are an archaeology freak and i know siteS better than iarcuri that neither you nor any little archaeologist friends you might have are going to know about for 10 years unless you ask nicely. i guess i read better books or have already been there, done that and now write the books. hmmm.

Originally posted by Parta
it is conceited to expect someone to know the basic facts.

"Fact" is an awfully flexible term when you're talking about a made-up place.

has wiki become something schools accept as basic fact?

Is Herodotus accepted in collegiate history or biology courses? Wikipedia conflicts fresh and salt water in a mythological chunk of land; Herodotus describes headless people with faces in their stomachs. WHich do yo uaccept as more factual?

i am conceited because when i look at wiki and even check their own sources i see they contradict each other. oceanus in wiki is salt water and it quotes theoi. when i go to theoi it says oceanus is fresh water. wiki is wrong on a very basic thing. it goes on and on.

Yep. You're posting on a forum on the internet. People aren't going to drop their drawers and rush off to conduct an archaeological dig, or extended library research just to please you. Wikipedia is certainly "good enough" for the context we have - especially with the subject at hand.

The atlas mountains in africa where colonized by hyperboreans called the getuli [getae]. atlas was a pretty famous hyperborean.

Atlas was a Titan, actually. The son of Iapetus and Asia. Also, wherever you're getting your research is lying to you; The Getae never once lived in Getulia. The Getae are Dacians, living north of Greece in modern Romania-Bulgaria. Getulia was indeed a Roman province near the Atlas mountains; the people there are Berbers. They've always been Berbers. Hyperborea is kinda nowhere near either one of these places.

herodotus says "atlantis" and describes it as being named for atlas, having people dwelling round a hill, near the pillars of hercules and there is a mighty sandbar. this is exactly as in plato . in critias plato doesn't say "atlantis' in greek once. atlantida, atlantidi, atlantikon pelagous. so atlantes is a real problem? en francais atlantis est atlantes

I'm just pointing out that it means, basically, "A land far, far away."

no its because okeanos potamos is okeanos potamos. just like all the stories written today with danube in them ARE related. its a geographical known thing. thats basic reasoning.

Which has nothing at all to do with the Babylonian stuff you were trying to wedge in there.

you is a scolar too?
first report by westerners

this is funny

and ps for the record... i was there in 1990.

edit on 11-2-2011 by Parta because: ps

Read your links. They both tell you that these places are too new to be related to "Atlantis" no matter how hard you wish.

reply to post by Parta


Summation:

"I READ CAYCE AND SITCHEN SO I NO STUFF NEENER NEENER BOO BOO!"

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

 

do you think that wiki on atlas is a good sumation? really? and you failed atlantology why? i never failed physics or atlantology.

I didn't quote the bit on Atlas for you, Parta. In fact, I couldn't care less what you think.

I quoted it to provide some context for what I claimed regarding the reason Herodotus called his mountain "Mount Atlas."

Originally posted by Parta
now harte you know i don't think atlantis is in africa. when you do look at a map what do you see thats as big as libya and asia combined. its europe isn't it. where okeanos potamos is. where all the maps in my gallery show.

I've never been to your gallery, Parta, and I don't creally care what is in it.

Anyone would consider your reply to Byrd:

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Byrd

History has no evidence of an Atlantis.

Herodotus says that in History, Book 4 does he not?

184. ….. After this at a distance of ten days' journey there is another hill of salt and spring of water, and men dwell round it. Near this salt hill is a mountain named Atlas, which is small in circuit and rounded on every side; and so exceedingly lofty is it said to be, that it is not possible to see its summits, for clouds never leave them either in the summer or in the winter. This the natives say is the pillar of the heaven. After this mountain these men got their name, for they are called Atlantians; and it is said that they neither eat anything that has life nor have any dreams.

to be that you were claiming Herodotus was talking about Plato's Atlantis, when he was actually describing an inland area in North Africa.

I'm done with you. The only reason I can read your posts now is this place eliminated the "ignore" function.

You don't deserve my conversation, so you won't have it.

Harte

Herodotus also talks about gold digging ants in India. Histories is a wonderfull collection of books, but should not be taken as gospel fact. Unless of course you happen to know where I can find some gold digging ants. I could use the gold at todays market rates =)

spirited discussion people!

loved reading it!



keep it up!

oops

Is Herodotus accepted in collegiate history or biology courses? Wikipedia conflicts fresh and salt water in a mythological chunk of land; Herodotus describes headless people with faces in their stomachs. WHich do yo uaccept as more factual?

perseus quotes him as a basis for their lexicon.

Yep. You're posting on a forum on the internet. People aren't going to drop their drawers and rush off to conduct an archaeological dig, or extended library research just to please you. Wikipedia is certainly "good enough" for the context we have - especially with the subject at hand.

actually dozens of people dropped thier research and wen to see what i showed them. still doing it. finally cracked the serbian nut too.

Atlas was a Titan, actually. The son of Iapetus and Asia. Also, wherever you're getting your research is lying to you; The Getae never once lived in Getulia. The Getae are Dacians, living north of Greece in modern Romania-Bulgaria. Getulia was indeed a Roman province near the Atlas mountains; the people there are Berbers. They've always been Berbers. Hyperborea is kinda nowhere near either one of these places.

try going to google books and type atlas and hyperborea. now go to wiki and see if the word hyperborea is there. maybe an honourable mention?

I'm just pointing out that it means, basically, "A land far, far away."

you are far away from being able to ponder anything accurately

Which has nothing at all to do with the Babylonian stuff you were trying to wedge in there.

well its not babylonian stuff is it?

you is a scolar too?
first report by westerners

this is funny

and ps for the record... i was there in 1990.

Read your links. They both tell you that these places are too new to be related to "Atlantis" no matter how hard you wish.

you is a scholar isn't you. iarcuri is troy. its walls were built by poseidon. thought you might like to see it or at least hear about for the first time since you are so acedemically and literarily challenged.

so the getae, from hyperborea [area north of thrace] settled in north africa [getulia?? whats that?]. this is not written?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Parta

 

Summation:

"I READ CAYCE AND SITCHEN SO I NO STUFF NEENER NEENER BOO BOO!"

and thats all you read. cayce and sitchin. does you feel cwever?

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Harte

 

do you think that wiki on atlas is a good sumation? really? and you failed atlantology why? i never failed physics or atlantology.

I didn't quote the bit on Atlas for you, Parta. In fact, I couldn't care less what you think.

I quoted it to provide some context for what I claimed regarding the reason Herodotus called his mountain "Mount Atlas."

Originally posted by Parta
now harte you know i don't think atlantis is in africa. when you do look at a map what do you see thats as big as libya and asia combined. its europe isn't it. where okeanos potamos is. where all the maps in my gallery show.

I've never been to your gallery, Parta, and I don't creally care what is in it.

Anyone would consider your reply to Byrd:

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Byrd

History has no evidence of an Atlantis.

Herodotus says that in History, Book 4 does he not?

184. ….. After this at a distance of ten days' journey there is another hill of salt and spring of water, and men dwell round it. Near this salt hill is a mountain named Atlas, which is small in circuit and rounded on every side; and so exceedingly lofty is it said to be, that it is not possible to see its summits, for clouds never leave them either in the summer or in the winter. This the natives say is the pillar of the heaven. After this mountain these men got their name, for they are called Atlantians; and it is said that they neither eat anything that has life nor have any dreams.

to be that you were claiming Herodotus was talking about Plato's Atlantis, when he was actually describing an inland area in North Africa.

I'm done with you. The only reason I can read your posts now is this place eliminated the "ignore" function.

You don't deserve my conversation, so you won't have it.

Harte

what can one say harte? i guess people down there are lucky that physics and math were figured out by someone else.

Originally posted by Parta
its mentioned here in this history channel program in the 6th minute.

Ummm...forgive my impudence, but I'm not sure how one can slag someone for citing Wiki as a source, and then produce the History Channel as a reference.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Parta
its mentioned here in this history channel program in the 6th minute.

Ummm...forgive my impudence, but I'm not sure how one can slag someone for citing Wiki as a source, and then produce the History Channel as a reference.

because the history channel is quoting the geological institute of hungary, the geological institute of romania and the world court at the hague.

ps: you should be proud. the world court called in the canadians to prove it.