V for Vatican?

Don't get me wrong, I loved V for Vendetta too... but it kinda freaks me out a bit to see Guy Fawkes and The V used as a symbol of freedom, of fighting TPTB... I'll try to explain.

Yes, Guy Fawkes was part of the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy to blow up the House of Lords/Parliament, but this was most likely done for the Vatican. The objective was to remove the King and have a Catholic on the throne again.

In any case, it is clear that five conspirators: Robert Catesby, Thomas Winter, Thomas Percy, John Wright and Guy (or Guido, the Spanish form of the name) Fawkes, later joined by Robert Keyes, determined during 1604 to undertake the blowing up of the House of Lords. The detonation was to take place on State Opening day, when the King, Lords and Commons would all be present in the Lords Chamber

Plans were also drawn up to secure the whereabouts of the heirs to the throne, Prince Charles and Princess Elizabeth, then children, and thus establish an ongoing friendly government to follow the explosion.

It seems they wanted to bring the children up to be friendly with the Vatican and, by extension, the Catholics in Britain.

And the rhyme...

"Remember, remember, the fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot
We see no reason
Why Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot",…..

Followed by “Penny for the Guy”

Fuller versions were used locally. In East Essex for instance, in the 1890s, boys would dress in cast-off hats and coats covered with old wallpaper torn into shreds. Faces blackened with soot, they would chant the rhyme quoted above but with the second verse:

"This is the day they did contrive
To blow up King and Parliament alive
Through God's great mercy they were taken
With a slow fuse and a dark lantern
Holler boys, holler boys,
God Save the Queen
Penny for the Guys

It is not, as in the movie, a rallying call for revolution... rather a reminder of failure.

I also found this interesting:

The four-hundredth anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot in 2005 was marked by a range of activities in London and elsewhere, including an exhibition in Westminster Hall.

Just a few months later, early in 2006, the movie V for Vendetta was released.

Perhaps it's nothing... but don't we usually urge eachother to be aware of propaganda and manipulation, as well as the meaning behind the symbols used? This is very curious and, like I said, it seems rather freaky to me.

House of Commons - Gunpowder Plot PDF

V for Vendetta IMDB

reply to post by eMachine


...it freaks me out a bit too.

www.infowars.com...
www.infowars.com...
www.nowpublic.com...
www.youtube.com...
...atc.

The Vatican is one organisation the is rife with scandal, intrigue and corruption of power, it works for me.

reply to post by kwakakev


Kind of like James Bond, except with no sex....

reply to post by Xcathdra


Some of their stories seam more like Mr Big, don't forget about all those little choir boys...

reply to post by eMachine


Interesting notion.. tho America does not come off that well in V... such a godless country

Some elements of V show a complete disdain for religious nut jobs, homophobia and all the other phobias.. which does play into the whole Guy Fawkes/Bonfire Night celebrations..

Try visiting Lewes on the 5th to see the whole anti religion, anti tptb outpouring that the 5th represents.

Some of the main Lewisian Tableauxs from the 5th, 2010
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a84e006ef902.jpg[/atsimg]
Cliffe - Above ( to the wordsmithing, A bunch of cu ts)
Commercial Square - Obama and BP
Waterloo - the Victoria Hospital
South Street - Donald Duck and BP
Nevil - Basil Brush with Cameron and Clegg
Firle - Cameron and Clegg in bed
Southover - Clegg in a cannon
Borough - Judge'll Fix It with Scapegoats (expenses scandal)

The main tableaux give a good indication of the feeling of the people... BP, Cameron, Clegg, Obama along with the usual characters, Guy and the Pope... Certainly not pro-tptb

Last year included plenty of piggies, and merchant bankers

The only resistance we can do is to "awaken our third eye" not to sound too new agy and get into ridiculous sounding semantics but most people I assume will know what I mean by opening the third eye. That is the most beneficial thing we can do for ourselves, not revolt or mass uprising.

Fact: an angry mob has never, ever done anything productive in the entire course of history.

I am a little confused that Alex Jones keeps saying "the answer to 1984 is 1776" but then he says armed revolt is what the globalists want. So exactly what kind of 1776 is he talking about?

I don't think Alex Jones works for the Vatican, Christian ideology is too encompassing for that, but Alex Jones is a Christian and in my book that means I can not trust him entirely. However, I would much rather have Alex Jones president than anyone else in the 20th century. Still, I'm not going to commit quasi-illegal activities because it may "awaken the masses." That kind of awakening only leads to further anger, and anger leads to further violence. The only type of mass awakening I advocate is a personal, individual, spiritual "turning towards the light within" meditational awakening. That's just my opinion and for the record I do listen to Alex Jones almost everyday but I can't see myself actually going out and "fighting" the powers that be, which is not really fighting at all but more like just getting pissed off and angry about how they are ruining my life. That doesn't sound very appealing.

There is alot of strangeness around V for Vendetta. An interesting avenue of research that might appeal is looking into Alan Moore, the comic book author of the original material. en.wikipedia.org... He also wrote Watchmen, about Dr. Manhattan (the new age Maitreya, Crowley's student L Ron Hubbard's "Big Being" from Operating Thetan II documents which is itself a reference to an image from Revelations 10 (?) "Face shone like the sun, rainbow coming from forehead, one leg on land, one on sea) and Ozymandias becoming the ruler of the world using a staged alien attack (a thinly veiled version of the antichrist/ NWO dictator). Moore is an expert on the occult. And he happens to think the world ends by 2017. Note Crowley at the bottom of the page.

i866.photobucket.com...
Why would he think the world ends at this time? It must be because the antichrist comes to power on 5-19-13 (5-19-13 Expect Us) (3.5 year rule of the antichrist). Here's more about this line of thought.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Back to the 5-19-13 Expect Us meme, which some say is put out by the group "Anonymous". Anon wears... the V/ Fawkes mask. AND 5-19-13 also happens to be Pentecost, the founding of the Christian church. AND Anonymous rails against Scientology, L Ron Hubbard's satanic religion (probably in an effort of false dichotomy mutually raising each other's profile - one uses the other for each others' legitamacy).

I guess more and more minds are getting awared that
All Roads Lead to ROME...!

reply to post by kwakakev


Well they are the oldest intelligence agency on the planet...

As far as the choir boy comment.. I saw an aide to the Obama administration talking about the TSA. The guy made an off the cuff remark that the defrocked priests can find jobs with the TSA now..

normally I would shake my head and move on, but for some reason it made me chuckle....

reply to post by thoughtsfull

The festivities sound awesome. Good fun. Power to ya.

But still Guy Fawkes is not praised or admired, correct? I get the impression he is the butt of the joke... and maybe like a martyr for the Catholics. Is that why they don't celebrate 5th Nov the same way in Northern Ireland? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not British (atleast not for several generations).

It seems like Guy Fawkes and V are ideologically opposites, so it's strange they are sort of 'merged' in the movie. Unfortunately, most Americans probably didn't know anything about Guy Fawkes before the movie came out (I didn't), and the link to the Pope is rather unheard of. So I think there's a huge misconception here.

The character V has more in common with the Guy Fawkes Day celebration than he does with the actual man who inspired it, but that completely escapes American viewers I think. I'm curious to know what impression the film has on British viewers.

I'm trying to make sense, but I've been awake about 30 hours now. Thanks everyone for your comments and the laughs that come with them.

reply to post by eMachine


They are really awesome, and it takes 10 weeks to celebrate the 5th around here.. literally the celebrations last 10 weeks and covers all manner of topics.. but the overall theme is anti TPTB and anti religion..

I'll quote a local politico and pamphlet writer who sums up local feelings

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit"
Thomas Paine

In England, specifically in my neck of the woods Guy Fawkes represents much more that a single event, and perhaps unfairly all the events are distilled into his personage.

The title of one bonfire hymm is a bit of a give away to the breadth of issues distilled into Guy Fawkes.. "An Hymn of Praise to The God of England, For Three Great Salvations."

The 3 Great Salvations where "from the Spanish Armada", "from the Gunpowder Plot" and finally the real give away "from Popery and Slavery by King William of Glorious Memory"

It also opens a much wider topic that goes far into the past like Lollardy (British Christianity opposing TPTB and Rome)

When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bond, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty.
Rebel & Lollard Priest - John Ball - 1380

Lollard Map - my bit is the blue bit isolated at the bottom of the map

and I could not discuss this topic without mentioning the Marian Persecutions (execution of Christians by the Roman Catholics)

Wiki Link: A bit inaccurate as a number of executions around here happened without trial

While Roman Catholics could have an issue with the depth and breadth of feeling aimed at Guy Fawkes (I was brought up Roman Catholic) it is not nice knowing your church executed people for wanting to read the words contained in the bible in a language they could understand, i.e English. (Bibles where in Old English up to the Papal sponsored Norman Invasion 1066)

Derek Carver of Brighton - burnt at Lewes on 22nd July 1555 for reading a bible in English.
A except from is trial - "Ye think ye can make a God. Ye make a pudding."

Words like Utopia coined by the Roman Catholic Sir Thomas More in 1516 come from that era... and yet even tho he coined the term he also burnt fellow Christians at the stake for not believing everything he did.. I would question how Utopia can not also mean Religious hypocrisy?.

For me Guy Fawkes is the focal point of anti Religious and anti TPTB sentiments as he was in the film.. While my POV is that V and Guy where both pawns in a Greater Game, But the most important thing is that V and TPTB both died at the end of the film freeing the nation from the tyranny of either side.

If V = the Vatican then it to dies at the end of the film..

But I am sympathetic to the V Character I do understand what you are saying about misconception and the background probably does escape most Americans..

As I am sure the same misconception surround our (English) right to bare arms which is also directly related to the same religious intolerance, with the Roman Catholic King James II disarming Anglicans while allowing Roman Catholics to remain armed, and that is unbalance our Bill of Rights 1689 was aimed at addressing.

A very interesting topic, and 1,700 years of clashes between the British and Roman Churches are distilled into the one figure... so perhaps I have rambled to much and been very incoherent in my response..

reply to post by thoughtsfull

Not incoherent at all. Very 'thoughtsfull' actually.

I value your input, you've given me a bit to study about British history. I have read Thomas More's Utopia and found it to be... well, not my idea of utopia at all!

This is somewhat comforting for me personally. I don't know anything about my ancestors, so I've just kind of figured they were all peasant slaves of the British Monarch. So they probably were, but perhaps some of them might've had a more anti-establishment philosophy.

Honestly, I am of the opinion that Rome didn't really fall, but rather underwent a makeover. I suspect there is another in the works. I'm concerned that the increasingly-popular 'truth' movement is being orchestrated to some degree, to provoke us into upheaval, another apparent 'fall' of The Empire. I welcome that, but I fear what the next incarnation will be like. Whatever it is, no matter how appealing they make it look, I don't want to support it! lol... unfortunately, I probably already am...

I appreciate your perspective, and thank you for helping direct my personal studies.

reply to post by eMachine


Thank you and your welcome, I find ATS an invaluable source of material to help direct my efforts

The History of these Isles and of the 1,700 year old (and ongoing) clash between the Christian Churches in Britain and Rome very interesting.. and it seems that clash is just about surfacing again..

3 Anglican Bishops and their wives have just moved into communion with Rome (along with 20 Anglican Priests) and as an example of the change, a Roman Catholic Priest by me has a preggy wife and his flock is like WTF.. A sentiment that is only going to be seen in many more flocks as more High Anglicans (English Catholics) move over into communion with Rome.. A move that might actually cause another reformation to take place, this time of the Western Church.

My mother (Roman Catholic) considers the current Pope evil because of it, she also thinks he will be the last Pope.. The topic has even come up in the Wikileaks cables with expressions of concern that the route the Vatican is following will lead to violence again Roman Catholics in Britain (which is BS in my opinion)

The whole thing has a very interesting aspect.. are we seeing a real reformation of the Vatican??

As for your ancestors I think some good source material to understand the character of the people through the ages can be had from the essays by people like George Orwell (England Your England and his Lion & Unicorn series) you might also find this poem by Rudyard Kipling interesting in his take on the character of the people, It is still good advice to TPTB on how to treat their people.

I think one of the things your find common in all parts of these isles has been a theme of trying to throw off the yoke of the oppressor, be it William Wallace, John Ball, Wyatt Tyler or any of the other characters that have left their mark on this nation. It is just a shame TPTB have always managed to keep each part of these isles in separate nationalistic boxes

In the wider context of Empires, I do think we are seeing a rise of a new Roman Empire, but feel that is more the EU, and Britain's recent military treaty with France gives the EU nuclear teeth... but obviously with the EU comes the Vatican, and perhaps that is why the Vatican is taking a risk in trying to convert Britain yet again to their form of Christianity.

I am honestly not sure where we'll be going next or where the USA sits in all this... but even tho it is meant to be an insult, we really do live in interesting times

BTW Thanks for the chat

I think 'V' takes the identity of Fawkes, simply because they both want to blow up parliament, although for different reasons, it seems logical to associate 'V' with Fawkes and if you were to take guy Fawkes out of V for Vendetta then the film wouldn't be half as good. So i don't think it's weird like that but what i did find weird is what i saw on the trailer at the one minute mark below


'An uncompromising vision of the future'
Who the hell said that? Do they know something we don't?

And then the film goes on about government killing it's people through disease! (real life vaccines come to mind!)

reply to post by BarmyBilly

That is weird.

Good catch. Thanks for pointing that out!

Seems like an unnecessary addition. The trailer could have been complete without it...