antimatter discovered in thunderstorms

On discussing in another thread concerning our fragile we abode i came across an interesting new discovery,antimatter discovered at the top of thunderstorms,I would like to here some explanations for this rather odd anomaly as you all know academia has spent billions building cern LHC to find it and its appeared in our magnetosphere so to speak ,for you scientific boffins care to add a explanation.
I`ll give you mine first,antimatter bursts from a distsnt supernova in the past,or blackhole,or the recent debate about the 11th dimension,the antimatter seeping through in thunderstorms,or antimatter from our planets core.The big question is,why has this not been seen before,yes i know equipment made more sensitive,but why spend on lhc and why find it in the clouds.
Heres the link,hope to get some answers please as my other thread has opened ,quite litterly the mind of myself and others,can someone open it more as were all here to learn.
www.nasa.gov...

Come on anybody up for a debate on this new find come on.......antimatter in the clouds WOW,surely can`t be ignored.

thts interesting but i dont know how it is possible...
doesnt antimatter + matter = giant explosion

i thought the only way to keep it was to have it in a magnetic vacuum keeping it from touching the walls.

so this anti matter touching the air and clouds seems like it would explode instantly

maybe im just misinformed idk

This is interesting. I remember watching something on time travel and wormholes and someone was saying in order to create a wormhole you would need anti matter. There are other videos showing a bunch of UFOs gathering above thunder storms...maybe has something to do with anti matter?

reply to post by iSHRED


Your exactly right this completely out of the outer limits and if that antimatter reaches our sea and fusions with hydrogen,well what do you think will happen and infact how the hell is it possible to even get in or appear where their saying it is,it would never appear as matter-antimatter go in two different directions from each other or is finally the exposure that a universe truly is going in the opposite direction from ours but in the 11th dimension and as I say seeping antimatter through electrostatic disturbances of geomagnetic bodies within our dimensional universe.
could this be the first time in history that energy that usually is confined to solar fusion is being picked up further away from that fusion,could it be heralding somekind of increase in solar fusion even though it appears relatively normal, apart fro 3 flares in 10 days.


Come on guys is this not questionable?

reply to post by gringoboy


It is forming as a gamma ray interacts with matter.

www.answers.com...

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by gringoboy

 

It is forming as a gamma ray interacts with matter.

www.answers.com...

Thanks so where are the gamma rays coming from,well supernovas usually exude them or black holes and the sun is this not correct.

reply to post by gringoboy

From your reference:


"Scientists think the antimatter particles were formed in a terrestrial gamma-ray flash (TGF), a brief burst produced inside thunderstorms and shown to be associated with lightning. It is estimated that about 500 TGFs occur daily worldwide, but most go undetected.

"These signals are the first direct evidence that thunderstorms make antimatter particle beams," said Michael Briggs, a member of Fermi's Gamma-ray Burst Monitor (GBM) team at the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH). He presented the findings Monday, during a news briefing at the American Astronomical Society meeting in Seattle."

"Scientists long have suspected TGFs arise from the strong electric fields near the tops of thunderstorms. Under the right conditions, they say, the field becomes strong enough that it drives an upward avalanche of electrons. Reaching speeds nearly as fast as light, the high-energy electrons give off gamma rays when they're deflected by air molecules. Normally, these gamma rays are detected as a TGF.

But the cascading electrons produce so many gamma rays that they blast electrons and positrons clear out of the atmosphere. This happens when the gamma-ray energy transforms into a pair of particles: an electron and a positron. It's these particles that reach Fermi's orbit.

The detection of positrons shows many high-energy particles are being ejected from the atmosphere. In fact, scientists now think that all TGFs emit electron/positron beams. A paper on the findings has been accepted for publication in Geophysical Research Letters."

reply to post by pteridine


Excellent so it is not a harbinger of a diminishing core,which would it be ,obviously accelerating core activity making it more prominent in observations because as you know gamma rays are uncommon from earth and are probably being eradiated by solar activity via earths core..fascinating a positron appearing where it should`nt be it is a very interesting development,I really just want to know where the gamma ray is coming from that has paired the electron to the positron,that has`nt been explained and is of interest.

Okay if its atypical gamma rays which are everywhere in the vacum and omitted by our sun and everyother sun,black hole,neutron start thats okay,just concerned if its cosmic gamma ray photons,which I gather it is not or is it?

come on can it be discounted that it not cosmic gamma ray photons and thats why its been discovered now because we have had alot of solar flares since experimentation began,why now,someone...anybody?

reply to post by gringoboy


The origins are from earth; the Fermi satellite data is not wrong. The generation of positron-electron pairs from gamma rays, when gamma is >1.2 Mev is well known.
What all this means is that thunderstorms are naturally occurring particle accelerators. The charge gradients are such that gamma emissions occur. When gamma rays encounter matter, positron-electron pairs are generated.

Bottom line: This is an unexpected but explicable natural phenomenon. The earth is not coming to an end; this has been happening, unnoticed, since thunderstorms first existed.

reply to post by pteridine


Okay,well I suppose more test could be done in thunderstorms then as it would seem the earth as a generator is much more powerful than the largest cern and could hold more antimatter than any cern facility,very interesting indeed,,I did not say it was the end of the world but would like to know when they can finally harness the power generated by thunderstorms to ground creating antimatter generators much like the cern and give us all more kilogoules for our money for the electric grid,like permanent controlled gamma particularisation array from ground to satelite collecting constant gamma ray antimatter energy.
In a word zero point energy source

reply to post by iSHRED

I agree, but now it seems antimatter is not as dangerous as the scientists have lead us to believe? I read about antimatter and the scientists say its hard to produce this reaction as in the CERN facility by combining matter and antimatter.Its a big mystery and I would love researchers on ATS to help in finding out why this new discovery of gamma rays in thunder clouds is possible?

I think we need to realise that this antimatter is almost certainly produced in EXTREMELY tiny quantities. Some of it probably would collide with "normal" matter resulting in annihilation and complete conversion of matter to energy but the energy released from a single antimatter particle collision would probably be too small to be detected by human senses. In other words, only a few (relatively speaking) antimatter particles are produced and you wouldn't be able to see the "flash" caused by one colliding with regular matter.

Of course, even a thousandth of a gram in one chunk colliding with regular matter would produce an impressive explosion. Somewhere around 20x (at least) more than the same amount of Plutonium.

Empirical evidence saying that gamma rays might be potentially threatening aviation. physicsworld.com...

reply to post by OZtracized


Oh well at least we now know if theres enough antimatter in thunderstorms,KABOOM.Off-course only if hydrogen was totally reconstituted from water.

reply to post by gringoboy


okay so today i happened to stumble upon the same article from nasa. My first question was.. WHY THE F was it not found before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..... next was how do we harness it. well then i read on a tad bit, seems as thou some ufos like to be at the top of thunderstorm clouds.. hmm..? maybe there is a way to collect it..? then i asked my self HOW. how to contain it. and also how to contain antimatter as a burning fuel! well im not really sure how this is all possible but i sure would like to know.

reply to post by kindbudkudos


Antimatter exists from gamma ray bursts interacting with electro geomagneic bodies(earth),so you need to create gamma on demand and a high electromagnetic source.However this source would require a high input of power,this does not mean it is not impossible to use antimatter in a flux mode.on,off,on ,off a bit like a pulse engine for propulsion or possibly energy absorbtion. .

Six years back, in Melbourne, Australia, an explosion occurred that many believed to be only explainable by antimatter. People involved were arguing with the Weather Bureau about the cause, but BOM believed such an antimatter strike was impossible.

The bang was like a bomb going off. It shook houses like an earthquake and was heard through a radius of 50 miles.
The light pole it hit was simply not there any more. There was about 10cm (4") of ash where its base used to be and no other remains.

Freak thunderclap heralds coldest February day
Melbourne Herald Sun, Australia - Feb 2, 2005

"A FREAK clap of thunder exploded over Melbourne early yesterday, waking thousands of sleeping residents across a 90km zone.

The sound wave travelled from Melton to Rosebud in four minutes.

It shook houses in its wake and vibrations caused by the thunder were recorded at five seismic testing stations.

The big bang was a prelude to Melbourne's coldest February day on record. The mercury barely nudged 13C as the city surpassed its average rainfall for February with 46mm in 48 hours.

The thunderclap frightened hundreds and generated a flurry of theories over what caused it -- from an earthquake to a sonic boom from a jet, or even a meteor.

"It sounded like a train come through the house," said Campbellfield resident Bill Brown of the tremor.

"The kettle and the toaster were jumping on the counter.

"The whole house was shaking and I was bloody frightened."

Seismology Research Centre director Gary Gibson said the big bang was not caused by an earthquake but rather a freak clap of thunder.

He said it started in Toolern Vale, near Melton, about 3.07am when a single lightning bolt struck. It destroyed a power pole just metres from houses.
Mr Gibson said a massive burst of thunder exploded as a result of the lightning, creating a powerful sound wave that travelled about 1km each three seconds.

"It's like an explosion going off and the sound waves going in all different directions," he said.

The vibrations were first recorded by testing stations in Mount Macedon 69 seconds after the lightning strike.

The sound wave then registered at Tullamarine, followed by Richmond and Belgrave.

Residents in Rosebud were the last to feel the vibrations, four minutes after the initial thunderclap to the city's west.

Mr Gibson said the vibrations measured less than one on the Richter scale.

Toolern Vale resident Michael Maxey said he was woken about 3am by the enormous bang.

"It was unbelievable. I was too scared to get out of bed," he said.

Mr Maxey, 37, said the house shook and trembled for 20 seconds.

He went outside and realised a power pole just 200m from his house had exploded after being struck by the lightning.

reply to post by Kailassa


This is the thing the russia tungaska event was never explained.Evidently it would seem that a antimatter reaction occurred although there is one problem with that,its supposed to annialate as soon as it comes into contact with matter.So the question is ,how did it get past all the rest of the matter in our atmosphere.
The only plausible explanation is a highly magnetized comet with a strong magnetite property impacting our atmosphere and releasing a gamma ray and antimatter burst,as it is quite obvious if it occurs during thunderstorms then ice is involved in interaction with the gamma rays.This is quite worrying as it means comets could destroy everything on land without necesarily impacting as at tungaska..
I hope this is of help and possibly explain the event you mention.Comets behave differently than asteroids or meteors on impact depending on their size and mass.

i can't comment on the antimatter explosion in in Oz but it would be extremely difficult to collect anti-matter particles from a thunderstorm because they are already interspersed with matter and would quickly collide with matter to annihilate each other.

As far as cern are concerned, they spend most of there time smashing atoms together just to see how the sub-atomic particles produced by the collision react. They can actually collect the antimatter because of the ridiculously strong electromagnetic forces they can produce although the anti-matter would have to be charged, neutral antimatter couldn't be contained as far as i know.

reply to post by LanceonW


This is true and is however a revelation to think the ice frictioning about in thermal currents can produce a release of antimatter from a electric discharge present in earths atmosphere,but at the boundary of space.it also now can give a more accurate pcture of how devastating a comet striking earth would actually be as it is known to composed of extreme differing forms of ice in chemical form.