Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

Tis true,cleavage is awesome and is one of the things that makes this crappy world bearable,but in a professional atmosphere can be distracting to others....like my codpiece.

Originally posted by janon
They knew the guys were looking at them and they loved it.

They ALL know.

Originally posted by scooterstrats
I (We) were yelled at and told not to look at the two HR girls as they walked through the factory for no ostensible reason. They paraded themselves around knowing that they were far more attractive than anyone working on the factory floor. We were told "dont look at them, they get nervous". Why is that cool?DONT LOOK AT ANOTHER PERSON? They weren't Gods...

We were clearly instructed"Dont look at these women" or you could be punished. No I dont work there anymore, but what bull# !

Originally posted by Annee
They ALL know.

I've always been afraid of that. I use to think of myself as the phantom booby watcher too.

Being a female, I think it is better to dress modestly in workplaces as well as educational institutions. In a cultured and civilized society, it does make a difference how one dresses and behaves.

It is hard to "hide" big boobs.

Usually having being large chested means that if you aren't careful you actually end up looking pretty bad. The shirt hangs in a way that makes you look very rotund even when you aren't.

Or if you were a higher cut/collar it looks ridiculous, or it can even sometimes be MORE revealing than just wearing something which is more flattering.

My MIL tried to buy me some more "conservative" shirts - the look on her face when I wore the turtle necks she bought me was priceless. I can literally be covered from feet to chin, and still look like I'm showing off.

Something that looks professional on my coworker can easily make me look like I'm about to step onto the stage for strip tease......seriously, I actually borrowed a friends professional wardrobe for an interview once, and the guy thought I was lost and directed me to the strip club across the street before he realized I was his interview. Awesomeness. Very frustrating. And no - there was actually no cleavage, and I was wearing pants....flowy pants.

You have to understand - not very many "average" sized women are over a C. Finding shirts and dresses which are flattering without being too sexy, and being professional ..... there are no role models. No models are in the magazines. Few women fit this category, so you can't just take stock of the women around you. The only role models you do have are hooters and porn really.

It took me a while to figure out how to dress so I look nice, professional and not resort to wearing things which are just expensive to compensate for looking like a sack.

If you are an employer, and you have a good employee who fits this body type and you have the sort of company that has some sort of employee assistance programs, the sort of employer who is looking to work with an employee....I might suggest you find a service in your area that specifically works with people to help them with personal presentation and wardrobe. Just have it as a service that the employee assistance / HR program can suggest if someone seems to be struggling with it.

Consider it toastmasters for the body.

***

If anyone on here is this woman, here is the best tips I have:

If you have a waist, use it. If you don't, use the empire waist to your advantage or the wrap style to "create" a waist.
Buy your shirts to fit your largest two parts - your shoulders and your breasts, then get the shirt tailored to fit elsewhere. You may need to go to a plus size store - swallow your pride if you aren't plus sized and try it. Big women still come in your shoulder size.
Get good foundation garmets. It is worth going for a professional fit. If you are average sized but have larger breasts, the pretty lingerie shops in the mall probably aren't carrying what you need.
Layering with jackets, and nice sweaters/etc can help minimize the impact.
Keep the neck line that works - just move it up an inch and a half. The neck line that flatters you truly looks good low or higher.

I am a feminist - - a supporter of women's rights and equality.

But this issue seriously annoys me. Women dressing inappropriate and seductive in a work environment.

They do it for TWO reasons - - to turn men on and get attention.

Any woman that claims that is not the case - - that they are dressing for themself because it makes them feel better - - is LYING.

This is one area where men are definitely treated unfairly - - and expectations are unrealistic.

You contradict yourself. First you say you don't want to hide your "asset" then you say you want to be judged on your work. You can't have it both ways. Men don't walk around with their crank hanging out just because they're "proud" of it. By your standards, you should be able to wear hot pants to show off your ass cheeks as well. That is no different.

You can't show off your tits because your'e proud of them then get pissed because they come into play at review time. For my money, there's nothing sexier than a well-dressed business woman. When I say well-dressed I mean not like a street whore with her tits hanging out but professionally.

The reality is, breasts are a distraction for most men, whom I assume you are trying to display your assets to, unless you are a lesbian. In either case, the workplace isn't the place to showcasing your mammaries. Period.

I find it interesting that so many people on this thread aren't aware that the fascination with breasts isn't "ingrained" into humans. It is cultural.

Even in European culture several hundreds of years ago, a woman's breast could fall out of something and it wouldn't really be a deal, but the "turn of an ankle" was the height of sexy.

This isn't some automatic button pushed in your heads you can't help - this is a cultural construct that allows you to indulge in fetishism in a culturally acceptable manner.

I've got some pretty big ta-tas myself, so I've had plenty of experience with the effect they can have in certain situations. Because of this, I have learned to take a very pragmatic cause and effect approach to such things. Here's the deal: In any given workplace, you should immediately learn the policy that applies to acceptable attire. Barring written policy, it doesn't take long to figure out what the accepted cultural climate consists of in regards to acceptable, or even encouraged, displays of physical attributes. If your goal is to get promoted at your job, you should be prepared to do, or not do, whatever is required to get a promotion, within the confines of the law and within the confines of what is acceptable to you morally. If that means that there is an unspoken encouragement for female employees to wear low cut blouses that show off their cleavage, or wear blouses that are buttoned up to their chins, then so be it.

Ladies, if you have large breasts and the guy doing the promoting is known to like small breasts, then wear something that will minimize your endowment. If the converse is true, then get yourself to Victoria's Secret and buy a cleavage enhancing Miracle Bra if you need it and wear a low cut shirt. I think cufflinks are sexy as hell. It's conceivable that I might promote a guy who walked into my office wearing a shirt with cufflinks over the guy with a shirt with buttoned cuffs, especially if they were equally qualified for the job.

So let's forget breasts and the male/female question all together and use something applicable to both genders. If you are gunning for a promotion and the hiring/firing/promoting supervisor, be they male of female, tends to promote brunettes over blondes and you are a blonde, be you male or female, then you may want to consider dying your hair a shade or two darker.

Yes, my point of view may seem like a very mercenary one, but oh well. In a perfect world, all employment promotions would be based on merit and service, but I doubt that I need to remind anyone on ATS that we do not inhabit a perfect world by any stretch of the imagination, nor do we inhabit a world where what is fair and good dictates outcomes. If you want the promotion bad enough you will do whatever you can to tip the scales in your favor. It is irrelevant whether it's right or wrong for the hiring/firing/promoting supervisor to have a bias. If you are aware of the bias, the most expedient thing to do is to use that bias to your advantage. I once had a very religious boss. Though I did not subscribe to the same beliefs as he did, I did not hesitate to use an occasional well placed religious key word or phrase whenever I spoke with him if I had an opportunity to work it into the conversation. At the end of the work day, it really comes down to how badly you want to curry favor with the guy or gal in charge. If you are within the parameters of the law, then the only logical way to proceed is to act in a way that works in your favor.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


As it is the employer's choice to pass. Most guys just want to avoid drama, and a woman who shows off like that is likely to cause drama of some sort. I don't mean with other women, I mean with the employer's wife.

reply to post by Aeons


cultural fetishes are ingrained.



Hotbakedtater:

are you serious? i work at a home improvement store, it's pretty casual. there was one woman in particular who wore plunging necklines quite often.(this woman is a friend of mine, by the way) she got told to cover 'em up. and rightly so. it's distracting. it's almost impossible to have a conversation with a woman who's intent on showing off her breasts. there's a time and place for it, and work isn't the place or time.

"I HAVE A GIANT PINK ELEPHANT WITH CANNONS ON IT'S BACK, BUT IF YOU LOOK I'LL SUE YOU!" not very rational is it?

it's work, cover up your sexy bits work hard and you'll get promoted, act like you're at a nightclub lookin to get laid, and you wont. that's not oppression. not in the least.

Well I do have to be the devils advocate here and take the mens side. If I were a boss and one of my male employees happened to love wearing spandex pants everyday ..it would be very distracting , perhaps gross me out completely, and every time I looked at him I would be thinking about his nuts. Same thing with "plumbers crack" or a chick that's wearing something to reveal "camel toe".
Truth be told, I believe it is either sheer arrogance or pure naivety to show breasts off without knowing the distracting nature of it. Depending on where you work, your not supposed to be there to get laid , induce jealousy/ competition in the other females , or play sexual tease games. The idea of it being oppressive to females to properly clothe their sexual organs is a redundant argument, however sexual oppression is deserving in the workplace because of the sheer drama sexuality has on people. There is enough of people and their drama to begin with , but if we took away dress codes ? I wouldn't even want to witness it.
The day my daughter starts to dress sexy because "It's her best assets" , I will take a can of gasoline , burn all of that, and ask her why her personality isn't her best asset. If someone can't look past her boobs, butt and body , they probably aren't worth the time to get to know further.

reply to post by optimus primal


Cultural fetishes are only ingrained into those who don't have enough brain executive to be able to evaluate themselves.....
which is probably most people. But since culture is a moving target and can and does change, apparently you can change it, just most don't unless they sense that it is culturally okay now to do so. It is ingrained, until it isn't.

reply to post by Aeons


well western boob fetishes aren't going to change any time soon. so i fail to see why you even brought it up. fact of the matter is, if women don't want men looking, they shouldn't show it off.

i try not to stare while at work, especially during the summer when the cloths get tighter and skimpier, but i fail horribly every day, it's subconcious. i don't even realise i'm doing it unless another male associate comments on it. i think you'd be hard pressed to find a straight male who can control it, if they even exist. and the worst part of it is, the women know it. they manipulate every man within eyedistance on purpose. and then act like we're the ones in the wrong. "were you looking at my ass" "yes ma'am, fact is i can see your small intestine from this angle"
oops get fired

I'm a woman, and I don't find this oppressive or sexist at all. I feel that it is unreasonable if one has large breasts and looks to have made an effort to cover up cleavage, but I know more than a few women who make no effort at all. In an office environment, things are typically conservative and professional, and showing lots of cleavage is simply not professional.

Originally posted by optimus primal
reply to post by Aeons

 

well western boob fetishes aren't going to change any time soon. so i fail to see why you even brought it up. fact of the matter is, if women don't want men looking, they shouldn't show it off.

i try not to stare while at work, especially during the summer when the cloths get tighter and skimpier, but i fail horribly every day, it's subconcious. i don't even realise i'm doing it unless another male associate comments on it. i think you'd be hard pressed to find a straight male who can control it, if they even exist. and the worst part of it is, the women know it. they manipulate every man within eyedistance on purpose. and then act like we're the ones in the wrong. "were you looking at my ass" "yes ma'am, fact is i can see your small intestine from this angle"
oops get fired

Western boob fetish is less than a hundred years old. It has DRASTICALLY changed in a very short period of time. Why are you under the impression the current fascination is going to be lasting?

Sounds like you blame women for your inability to control yourself.

There is a distinct difference between the man whose looks, and the man who can't control himself. Not being able to control yourself is something you allow yourself. It is a psychological thing.

In a room with 300 hundred naked people, and in twenty minutes most people don't even notice anymore. But you have an excuse you grant yourself, and then to give yourself some extra boundary you then project your issue onto the women around you.

Gentlemen still look. Perhaps you should take a clue from them and figure out how you can look without causing problems.

reply to post by Aeons


"i'm gonna wear clothing specifically to show off my cleavage, how dare you look! you can't control yourself!"

right. really now...that's incredibly logical


i don't blame women for anything. no i don't have very good control over myself when a woman walks by with tight and skimpie clothing on. but then should i? i don't believe so, if they want to show it off i'll look all i please. the only reason i try not to while working is out of respect for my workplace. it's just another thing women are always complaining about, how they can't dress like sluts without some pig of a man staring at them

See - you just did it. You can't even SEE me, but the very idea that I might have big boobs has you imagining how I dress.....even though just above is half a post on how to dress professionally with larger breasts.

You can't even control yourself at the THOUGHT of larger breasts, and the thought triggers the inability to control yourself AND anger. Classic mysogynist there.

Gentlemen don't have your problem.