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Guns in the UK? No !!!
page: 3share:
Why in the heck do they let you people have knives?
Originally posted by thedoctorswife
reply to post by TheFallOfRa
I hope i never live to see firearms legalised in the UK. I believe knife crime is a serious issue here however.
People could get hurt...
Or cut a tender steak into bite size morsels or something.
firearms are perfectly legal in the uk if you have a licence, you can potentially buy an automatic shotgun or a sniper rifle but a handbag sized
pistol is very bad and commands a minimum 5 years in jail
The disarming of the British citizens happened a long long time ago as the rulers realised the threat of an armed population could unseat them.
Notice though that those same rulers are willing to arm us to the teeth, in fact they expect it, in order to fight against those that they have picked
a fight with!
In more modern times, the firearms bans, first targeting (forgive the pun) semi-auto and bolt action rifles then later handguns, were the result of shooting incidents that involved firstly illegally held weapons, and later handguns owned by someone who had been cleared for ownership by powerful friends, after having been refused by the police!
Firearms ownership by the general public was not an issue and the weapons that were banned were typically held by sports shooters. The storage and inspection requirements were stringent and ownership approval was not just handed out on a whim! There was never any correlation between legitimate ownership and armed crime - despite the press hysteria portraying anyone who owned or wanted to own firearms as some sort of Rambo wannabe. on a hair trigger and ready to indulge in some mass killing spree.
After the bans were introduced, the instances of armed crime went up. So, the bad guys still get to own and use the weapons fro criminal purposes. The fact they are banned means nothing to the criminals.
I am certainly not advocating the public ownership of firearms - society today is too screwed up and has too many issues to be trusted with lethal devices. However, those people who previously held firearms for sporting purposes were never a threat to anyone anyway. I even have reservations about some police being armed given the attitude many display towards anyone "not them".
In more modern times, the firearms bans, first targeting (forgive the pun) semi-auto and bolt action rifles then later handguns, were the result of shooting incidents that involved firstly illegally held weapons, and later handguns owned by someone who had been cleared for ownership by powerful friends, after having been refused by the police!
Firearms ownership by the general public was not an issue and the weapons that were banned were typically held by sports shooters. The storage and inspection requirements were stringent and ownership approval was not just handed out on a whim! There was never any correlation between legitimate ownership and armed crime - despite the press hysteria portraying anyone who owned or wanted to own firearms as some sort of Rambo wannabe. on a hair trigger and ready to indulge in some mass killing spree.
After the bans were introduced, the instances of armed crime went up. So, the bad guys still get to own and use the weapons fro criminal purposes. The fact they are banned means nothing to the criminals.
I am certainly not advocating the public ownership of firearms - society today is too screwed up and has too many issues to be trusted with lethal devices. However, those people who previously held firearms for sporting purposes were never a threat to anyone anyway. I even have reservations about some police being armed given the attitude many display towards anyone "not them".
guns dont kill people. people kill people. A gun is only a tool. just like any other item that can kill. How about we band cars. cars kill way more
people the guns yet cars are legal. why is there such a gun phobia when cars are the main killer?
Proud gun owner
AR-15
Shotgun
two 22 rifles
22 hand gun
.45 hand gun!
Proud gun owner
AR-15
Shotgun
two 22 rifles
22 hand gun
.45 hand gun!
reply to post by Britguy
I handle Uranium Fuel cells which go into nuclear reactors for a living. Do you think you should be worried about me with a Firearm..of any type?? Do you think I might be screwed up?? You know .. part of society??
I have a concealed weapons permit. Does it give some of you the warm Fuzzy feelings?? I was in Wal Mart the other night..and carried my .45 ACP Colt Government. Can you believe it ..I didn't shoot anyone??
Xenophobia??? LOL LOL...that is how I think about Englishmen and their Pubs.
Which one gives you the warm fuzzies....Uranium 235 or firearm ownership/carrying concealed ??
With which one of these do you think an insecure frightened distrustful government is concerned??
Some of you are so incredibly provincial in your thinking. There are far worse things out here than firearms of which most of you havent a clue. Yet you are surrounded by these hazards daily and don't know it. Some of you watch to much televison and movies and it skews your thinking unto political drivel. Fear and scare tactics...and it obviously works very well on an unthinking emotionally scared public looking for government to protect them.
I would never want to live in England. I also would never want to see Englishmen own firearms. To many Englishmen spend more time at the Pub than at the firing range. I would never want to be around someone mixing alcohol and firearms or alcohol and machinery.
I've seen people handling firearms and alcohol..I put distance between myself and them rapidly. I dont approve of such conduct. Bad Juju to be around peoples drinking and guns or drinking and machines.
For the record..I am not against alcohol. I just know not to mix alcohol and certain types of conduct.
People who do this are to me nothing more than Wildlife...two legged wildife.
Oh..by the way Britguy..you are correct about the constabulary. Many of them and particularly the leadership of the constabulary are political appointees. Politics is their primary venue..not public felicity. It is the same here in the states..however..most of the American Public is ignorant of this concept.
Thanks,
Orangetom
I am certainly not advocating the public ownership of firearms - society today is too screwed up and has too many issues to be trusted with lethal devices. However, those people who previously held firearms for sporting purposes were never a threat to anyone anyway. I even have reservations about some police being armed given the attitude many display towards anyone "not them".
I handle Uranium Fuel cells which go into nuclear reactors for a living. Do you think you should be worried about me with a Firearm..of any type?? Do you think I might be screwed up?? You know .. part of society??
I have a concealed weapons permit. Does it give some of you the warm Fuzzy feelings?? I was in Wal Mart the other night..and carried my .45 ACP Colt Government. Can you believe it ..I didn't shoot anyone??
Xenophobia??? LOL LOL...that is how I think about Englishmen and their Pubs.
Which one gives you the warm fuzzies....Uranium 235 or firearm ownership/carrying concealed ??
With which one of these do you think an insecure frightened distrustful government is concerned??
Some of you are so incredibly provincial in your thinking. There are far worse things out here than firearms of which most of you havent a clue. Yet you are surrounded by these hazards daily and don't know it. Some of you watch to much televison and movies and it skews your thinking unto political drivel. Fear and scare tactics...and it obviously works very well on an unthinking emotionally scared public looking for government to protect them.
I would never want to live in England. I also would never want to see Englishmen own firearms. To many Englishmen spend more time at the Pub than at the firing range. I would never want to be around someone mixing alcohol and firearms or alcohol and machinery.
I've seen people handling firearms and alcohol..I put distance between myself and them rapidly. I dont approve of such conduct. Bad Juju to be around peoples drinking and guns or drinking and machines.
For the record..I am not against alcohol. I just know not to mix alcohol and certain types of conduct.
People who do this are to me nothing more than Wildlife...two legged wildife.
Oh..by the way Britguy..you are correct about the constabulary. Many of them and particularly the leadership of the constabulary are political appointees. Politics is their primary venue..not public felicity. It is the same here in the states..however..most of the American Public is ignorant of this concept.
Thanks,
Orangetom
edit on 14-12-2010 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by mr-lizard
The Government is scared of us.
I am glad that I wasn't drinking anything, or I would have needed to get a new keyboard.
Well need i remind you of that in the last two weeks, there have been literally thousands of people on the streets, political headquarters have been occupied and the monarchy have been attacked. Information has emerged incriminating many politicians and companies, organisations etc and supposedly secure websites have been brought down.
reply to post by camaro68ss
cars get you places that are too far to walk, guns kill things and have no other use apart from when practising to kill things at a firing range.
there are such things as starting pistols for starting races but they use a type of blank and i admit to the use of flare guns for being rescued etc... these are the only exceptions i can think of but feel free to add any others.
cars get you places that are too far to walk, guns kill things and have no other use apart from when practising to kill things at a firing range.
there are such things as starting pistols for starting races but they use a type of blank and i admit to the use of flare guns for being rescued etc... these are the only exceptions i can think of but feel free to add any others.
Originally posted by butcherguy
Why in the heck do they let you people have knives?
Originally posted by thedoctorswife
reply to post by TheFallOfRa
I hope i never live to see firearms legalised in the UK. I believe knife crime is a serious issue here however.
People could get hurt...
Or cut a tender steak into bite size morsels or something.
Guess what... knives were designed with many more functions in mind than simply to kill.
The gun was designed and still made simply to kill. That is its only use. It is a machine of death.
Can you really not understand that? Do you honestly think your argument was valid and that guns and knives are comparable?
reply to post by Romans 10:9
It would play out in a very similar fashion to a country without gun controls.
Where did this myth, that citizens with guns could stand up to a modern army, come from?
If, and this here is the big IF, a country's military did follow orders to round up the citizens, there would be jack the citizens, armed or not, could do.
The military has a whole host of weapon choices available. They have a whole list of choices for armour.
They also travel in teams that have been trained to work as teams.
The average citizen would stand zero chance against that.
Now, when the constitution was written, it may have been different, as armies weren't much better than the average joe militia, but today, it would be a massacre.
It would play out in a very similar fashion to a country without gun controls.
Where did this myth, that citizens with guns could stand up to a modern army, come from?
If, and this here is the big IF, a country's military did follow orders to round up the citizens, there would be jack the citizens, armed or not, could do.
The military has a whole host of weapon choices available. They have a whole list of choices for armour.
They also travel in teams that have been trained to work as teams.
The average citizen would stand zero chance against that.
Now, when the constitution was written, it may have been different, as armies weren't much better than the average joe militia, but today, it would be a massacre.
reply to post by peck420
guerilla warfare can be a bstard to deal with, just look at vietnam, afghanistan and especially cuba.
guerilla warfare can be a bstard to deal with, just look at vietnam, afghanistan and especially cuba.
reply to post by lewman
cars can be used to kill people to. the argument is people being killed. fact is more people die from cars then guns. the case is if you ban guns you must ban cars because they kill more then guns
cars can be used to kill people to. the argument is people being killed. fact is more people die from cars then guns. the case is if you ban guns you must ban cars because they kill more then guns
reply to post by lewman
Yay, wikipedia!
Just today I was talking with a Marine about this very thing. He said nothing scares them more than walking into a town where every window is a threat. That tightly packed unit walking in town doesnt stand much chance against just a couple of inbreds running from window to window above them, to the leftt of them, to the right of them, behind them with just a 50 year old surplus Nagant.
Folks are too quick to overestimate the might of the US military. Never mind the reality that there quite be quite a few defectors who refuse to fire on their own countrymen.
Yay, wikipedia!
The tactics of guerrilla warfare were used successfully in the 20th century by—among others— Mao Zedong and the People's Liberation Army in the Second Sino-Japanese War and Chinese Civil War, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara and the 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution, Ho Chi Minh, Vo Nguyen Giap and the Viet Cong in the Vietnam War, George Grivas and Nikos Sampson's Greek guerrilla group EOKA in Cyprus, Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck and the German Schutztruppe in World War I, Josip Broz Tito and the Yugoslav Partisans in World War II,and the antifrancoist guerrilla in Spain during the Franco dictatorship[1], the Kosovo Liberation Army in the Kosovo War, and the Irish Republican Army during the Irish War of Independence.[2] Most factions of the Iraqi Insurgency, Colombia's FARC, and the Communist Party of India (Maoist) are said to be engaged in some form of guerrilla warfare—as was, until recently, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist). In India, Marathas under leadership of Shivaji used it to overthrow of the Mughals. It was also effectively used by Tatya Tope and Rani Laxmibai in the Indian Rebellion of 1857, as well as by Pazhassi Raja of Kerala to fight the British.
Just today I was talking with a Marine about this very thing. He said nothing scares them more than walking into a town where every window is a threat. That tightly packed unit walking in town doesnt stand much chance against just a couple of inbreds running from window to window above them, to the leftt of them, to the right of them, behind them with just a 50 year old surplus Nagant.
Folks are too quick to overestimate the might of the US military. Never mind the reality that there quite be quite a few defectors who refuse to fire on their own countrymen.
reply to post by camaro68ss
i am not going to fall into the trap of thinking you want to ban cars as you have a very big and deadly looking car on your pic and i doubt it is very good at braking compared to many jap and european models but it is the fact that the car is used a lot more regularly for things like taking your children to the hospital,school or getting food to feed your family.
unless you kill dogs and pidgeons for your meals then having a gun in a built up area has no other use than for causing pain, death or intimidation and i am not sure what type of hunting would warrant the use of a mac10,barretta or even a lemon squeezer.
on a different note, the strange thing is that the easiest gun to get legally in the uk is the only one that's impact wounds cant be traced and its one of the worst to get shot with and that is the shotgun.
i am not going to fall into the trap of thinking you want to ban cars as you have a very big and deadly looking car on your pic and i doubt it is very good at braking compared to many jap and european models but it is the fact that the car is used a lot more regularly for things like taking your children to the hospital,school or getting food to feed your family.
unless you kill dogs and pidgeons for your meals then having a gun in a built up area has no other use than for causing pain, death or intimidation and i am not sure what type of hunting would warrant the use of a mac10,barretta or even a lemon squeezer.
on a different note, the strange thing is that the easiest gun to get legally in the uk is the only one that's impact wounds cant be traced and its one of the worst to get shot with and that is the shotgun.
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
to make things trickier still for the soldiers the us army would have less power against their own people as i cant see private johnson bombing a rebel building in new york when mrs johnson lives next door or the government saying one day lets nuke texas.
i think che gueverra wrote a book on guerilla warfare, i might have to read it just incase, just hope it doesnt only come in spanish.
to make things trickier still for the soldiers the us army would have less power against their own people as i cant see private johnson bombing a rebel building in new york when mrs johnson lives next door or the government saying one day lets nuke texas.
i think che gueverra wrote a book on guerilla warfare, i might have to read it just incase, just hope it doesnt only come in spanish.
Having a gun makes me feel safer. If someone breaks into my home, I have a right to defend myself, and police response times are so horrible here that
I could be dead by the time they arrive. Outlawing things apparently works in other countries, but it just doesn't do the job here. Even with stiff
crackdowns and minimum sentencing, drugs are still rampant here, and they usually fall into the hands of the most violent and shady of people because
of it. It's simply unreasonable to expect guns to be much different.
The army has no effective means to deal a totally hostile populace.
They are at a disadvantage every way they turn.Outnumbered,and surrounded everywhere they go.
Even a disarmed people can overcome a fully armed and deployed army.Just ask mahatma Ghandi....
Add to that the fact that the army is drawn from the sons and daughters of the country, and they would not willingly or easily throw down on their own people.Especially when they agree with their sentiments.
Guns are not the problem in britain, or the states.
The problem is the goverments who have ceased to represent the best interest of the people.Indeed they have come to hold the common people in utter distain.
It is imperative that the means of government be restricted and the authority or the various intelligence services be rescinded, for the good of the people.
We have become captives of psyops and psywar deoctrine developed for use on enemies, but employed against the people by those who are charged with our protection.
This treasonous betrayal of the common man is at the root of all our problems.
Much of the bad news we hear is manufactured for the purpose of controlling the masses.
They are at a disadvantage every way they turn.Outnumbered,and surrounded everywhere they go.
Even a disarmed people can overcome a fully armed and deployed army.Just ask mahatma Ghandi....
Add to that the fact that the army is drawn from the sons and daughters of the country, and they would not willingly or easily throw down on their own people.Especially when they agree with their sentiments.
Guns are not the problem in britain, or the states.
The problem is the goverments who have ceased to represent the best interest of the people.Indeed they have come to hold the common people in utter distain.
It is imperative that the means of government be restricted and the authority or the various intelligence services be rescinded, for the good of the people.
We have become captives of psyops and psywar deoctrine developed for use on enemies, but employed against the people by those who are charged with our protection.
This treasonous betrayal of the common man is at the root of all our problems.
Much of the bad news we hear is manufactured for the purpose of controlling the masses.
What do you mean, No?
I can buy almost any sort of gun in the UK (and that includes automatic weapons).
You might not believe in guns, but the criminals, ravaging many of UK's cities, and towns, certainly do.
Just so you know, I respect your position. But, I think it's a bit naive (if you pardon this word). It sort of reminds me of Lebanon, when Beirut was the Switzerland of the Middle East. Suddenly, they decided to disarm themselves, and have no participation in the wars surrounding their paradisaical Country. Guess what happened? Not only were they invaded by every imaginable force (PLO, Israel, Syria...), their own population broke into hundreds of rival armed militias. From a peaceful, and paradisaical country, to a war-torn, divided non-entity...
But, of course, you being from the UK, currently the tightest police-state (sorry, Crown-Estate) in the world, have been conditioned to not being a free citizen, but a Loyal Subject...
Just my opinion, no offense intended, for I too am a Loyal Subject (just an armed one - you never know )...
I can buy almost any sort of gun in the UK (and that includes automatic weapons).
You might not believe in guns, but the criminals, ravaging many of UK's cities, and towns, certainly do.
Just so you know, I respect your position. But, I think it's a bit naive (if you pardon this word). It sort of reminds me of Lebanon, when Beirut was the Switzerland of the Middle East. Suddenly, they decided to disarm themselves, and have no participation in the wars surrounding their paradisaical Country. Guess what happened? Not only were they invaded by every imaginable force (PLO, Israel, Syria...), their own population broke into hundreds of rival armed militias. From a peaceful, and paradisaical country, to a war-torn, divided non-entity...
But, of course, you being from the UK, currently the tightest police-state (sorry, Crown-Estate) in the world, have been conditioned to not being a free citizen, but a Loyal Subject...
Just my opinion, no offense intended, for I too am a Loyal Subject (just an armed one - you never know )...
Originally posted by splittheatom
You say that you don't think you could go out and get a gun tonight, and your reason is because no body has them?
I think you are very misinformed.
There are sheer amounts of illegal fire-arms in Britain.
This article for example:
www.independent.co.uk...
That was from 5 years ago, and things are only getting worse over here.
Personally I think we should have to right to own guns. The police have them, the criminals have them, so why can't the average Joe own one?
edit on 14/12/2010 by splittheatom because: link
I personally, couldnt get a gun, believe me.
Originally posted by lewman
reply to post by shauny
shauny you live in scotland, have you ever been to glasgow the place makes detroit look like a playground, check the murder rate and many cities in england have very bad gun problems like birmingham, manchester and london. also news from the north of england has to involve child killings, people shooting police(raoul moat) or gazza(raoul moat again) to make the news.
london is a more dangerous city than new york and manchester and birmingham are more dangerous than london and i think glasgow had more murders last year than the rest of the country combined but i could be a bit off on this final stat as i am going from memory(i have a bad one).
infact to top this all off, hand guns where banned in the uk because of a scottish peodophile walking into a scottish school (dunblaine)with a couple of guns and massacering a load of children and teachers
But we get the odd one off thing.
Like that lad in Austria, build a thing under his house and raped his daughter etc.
You get the odd one off.
As I said, I respect the USA for having this law.
It just isnt needed here.
As for Glasgow, I have a LOT of family in Glasgow, 35 miles from my house.
They get the odd thing, but its not bad enough the would move house!!
Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Freeborn
Or you could say ...
Shot in America...... Beaten to death in England.
Putting it that way, I'll take the shot.
ENGLAND...lol
The UK has 4 countries
Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
London is has more people in it that Scotland, London is where most of the knife crime happens.
A lot of Americans seem to think England is the "MAIN" part of the UK.
LOL
edit on 14/12/2010 by shauny because: (no reason given)
You might not think guns are okay, but I have to disagree. Even though I live out in the farmland of middle america, we still have people who have
tried to break in and steal from us. I will by any means protect my life and my childrens lives. Another reason is that if there ever comes a point
where we can't buy food that we need or need to stock up our deep freeze, we can go out in our back yard and knock one into bambi and there is
dinner. I would rather be able to have every means available to protect my family than have to sit in my house wondering when & if anyone (criminal
with a gun) will break in. Most other places where banning guns work, over here (america) most police are crooked and they take so long to get to a
crime scene. I would rather be the one saying I protected myself, instead of having my family ask why haven't the police found the guy who shot my
wife/daughter/mommy. Everyone who goes for banning of guns, I am not saying you are wrong, but you can surely sit in your house and next time a
criminal decides he/she is going to break into your house and steal/rape you with a handgun pointed to your head the whole time, I bet you will be the
one wishing you had a gun to protect yourself. Like my husband and father-in-law tells me, shoot first and ask questions second. If you are dumb
enough to think that you can break in and do as you please in my house, then you are dumb enough to get shot. Just saying.
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