Atheist Ads on Buses Rattle Fort Worth

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Actually, they are pointed at atheists. They are saying - It's OK to be an atheist and state your position. They are not attacking religion or anyone. They are expressing themselves. If I make a huge sign and carry it around saying "I LOVE BLUE", I'm not attacking any color, nor am I going after people who love green. An expression of one's position is not an attack on anyone else. UNQUOTE

Not to labor the point, but that isn't clear in the photo. I see your point. If I squint. That passivity isn't inherent. The timing & especially, the location appear to be "looking" for a confrontation. (I am a Believer & I walk *very* softly north of Austin & in West Texas. There is a town in the Hill Country- maybe Comfort or Center Point? that is primarily an atheist town. I've never heard of a controversy there. Wimberly has a sizable Wiccan population. No word of any issues there, either. The Baptists & the Hagee people don't go there & stir things up AFAIK)
Maybe a more benign means of outreach would be billboards advertising "free thought", metaphysical, or alternative bookstores? They are generally pretty obscure unless someone knows the name of a particular shop they're looking for or what to call them. And they could use the support.
Just as evangelism is no longer really needed in modern times, this shouldn't be either. I'm sure it's in google. Atheism as an incidental in alternative thought shouldn't be an issue. I really don't think "ordinary people" even notice, to be honest. (Maybe if you're sitting in traffic. I don't read billboards or buses. I'm too busy driving & looking out for the lunatics around me. Maybe Y'All should go the PETA route with naked women- not really. Those ads got attention, but they backfired beautifully)

We can dance around this all we want to, trying to be polite, but this is not a "we just want to be okay & do our thing in peace". There is a concerted, highly aggressive PUSH to damage, undermine, & insult "people of faith" (there's a PC term for ya). "Religion" has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it. Most atheists "defend" their beliefs by saying they just want their freedoms & peace. Show me where a church or group has attacked you & I will certainly take your side. But you guys need to stop with the aggression. Live & let live. Live as you want & if someone doesn't like it, that's their problem.
MANY of the mainstream "religious communities" are just as annoyed by the mega-churches & the more aggressive factions as you are. Engaging them disrupts *everybody's* peace. If you start it, it puts you in just as bad a light. Don't expect people to just take it. They won't.

. Are you kinda saying this some kind of nanner-nanner thing?

Um, no. I'm not sure what you mean. UNQUOTE

Well, that's kinda how it comes across. A little like a retort. Maybe I'm just more of a "whatever", roll my eyes kind of person who generally wouldn't say anything. My own reaction to that bus would be to feel sorry for them (not in a condescending way, but I remember when I wasn't so close to God) It is confusing- between the "isolated" victims & the damning denunciations. Or maybe confusion is meant to disarm people. How mind controlly. (that photo- & I'm sure the kabuki that plays out, doesn't paint a pretty impression of either "side". It makes everyone look petty & gauche)

I would ask you for the same: kindly don't make general assumptions about those who follow Christ.

Where did I do that? UNQUOTE

You, & many of the others who choose not to believe in God & express their chagrin on ATS generally paint all Christians as people who would judge & condemn you as if we would prevent you from peacefully pursuing your lives. We don't. I know of no agnostic or atheist who has ever been "discriminated against". That Christians would DARE to display any aspect of our spiritual personalities is an outrage & an affront to you. You would certainly drive Christians underground if you could. Heh. Imagine what would happen if some group of people posted on ATS constantly bashing gay people or Jews or a "minority". TSWHTF. It's very telling. It's clear that you are the ones who would oppress us. You're not just committing the aggression, you're claiming to be the victim. (this is a figurative "you" regarding God bashers in general, not you personally, BH) I'm sorry Y'All are angry & bitter & hate people who believe, but no one here caused that. When I dislike something that much, it basically doesn't exist for me. There's just no room for it among the things that do matter. In other words, I can't fathom where you're coming from.
True, there are some who would say that you're going straight to hell. But imo, that's their problem. And God's decision, not ours.

Here:
QUOTE "God is NOT synonymous with religion. And religion is NOT synonymous with Christianity. These are connections in your mind, perhaps? But don't assume what atheists think. OK?


(What if people- Christians, specifically) threw the same kind of fit about Halloween displays?


They DO! Are you kidding? They do." UNQUOTE

These ads don't attack anyone, though. That's where I think your confusion lies. They are by atheists, for atheists. They say: “Millions of people are good without God.” and “Don’t believe in God? You are not alone.”

Far more people who are not atheists also see them. These are "fightin words" in the Bible belt. And it's the BB because sooo many people living there are heavily into that. (some of these counties/ cities don't even sell alcohol because they're so radical) To a great many people, the ads feel like an attack & an insult. (People will forget what you said or did. They will never forget how you made them feel. Faith- or the lack of it, is very much emotional) And in the second place, there must be some way to convey an inclusive message without dragging God into it. Asking for funds? That's exactly the same thing that turns people off about the religious hucksters. (course, maybe they *will* feel less "left out". A lot of people up there do fall for it)
(In trying to enlarge the photo to see exactly what it says, I found another interesting irony: Public transportation. Would the people who took out these "anti God" ads be the same people who pitched such a fit about Nativity scenes or 10 Commandments placards on Public property? So it's "you can't "discriminate" against me because *I* want to discriminate against you" What happened to inclusiveness?)

No, I don't think that anyone who belongs to a religion needs therapy lol even if I happen to think they're nuts. I think that anyone who feels a compulsion to impose their beliefs on other people needs therapy.

But these bus ads aren't any more imposing than a church on the corner or a bible in a hotel room. Atheists aren't coming to your door selling their wares. They are exercising their freedom of expression. UNQUOTE

Actually, Y'All are. When I come to ATS & see *another* post, *again today* (or several) bashing God & Christians, the first time I wondered who pee'd in *your* cornflakes? Y'All are doing your version of exactly what you claim to hate. Most of the time I just roll my eyes & don't even log in- which is, of course, what you want. You want to silence anyone who doesn't agree with you so that you can shove your stuff down everybody else's throat so that you can pretend that everyone agrees with you. I haven't seen many (more than 1 or 2) that the topic was pushing God. Religion & sexuality are very personal & should be confined to our intimates NOT the public at large, imo.
What is the need to publicly proclaim those feelings? What is the goal?

ATS needs that smiley where a sword is being poked at a stack of crap.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
We can dance around this all we want to, trying to be polite, but this is not a "we just want to be okay & do our thing in peace". There is a concerted, highly aggressive PUSH to damage, undermine, & insult "people of faith" (there's a PC term for ya). "Religion" has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Want to see a neat trick?

Murder

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Rape

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Greed

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Promiscuity

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Selfishness

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Dying

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Pain

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

Suffering

has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever. The extreme oppression of communism couldn't even kill it.

See what I did?

reply to post by LDragonFire


I don't see how the athiests are going to convert true Christians who have a truly fulfilling relationship with God, with a few billboards and bus ads. They are just trying their hardest to get their spiritless message across, or perhaps give other athiests a few holiday jollies.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, and no amount of silly signs declaring my faith invalid will change that. We have experienced His love and goodness. We have communed with His Holy Spirit. We have seen those who did not believe and even chastized other believers changed through their own acceptance of the Holy Spirit.

Reason is in the eye of the beholder. Without the acceptance of the Holy Spirit through Christ in Baptism, our faith seems foolish...but then, who the fools are is defined by where you stand...inside or outside the cover of the blood of Christ.

Originally posted by DaMod
As a Christian I must say that I disagree with what is said on that sign on the side of the bus.

I however cannot say they should not be allowed to put it there. My right to believe as I wish is the same as it is not to believe anything at all. I just wish people would learn to get along with each other regardless of creed. Haven't we been fighting over it for long enough? What is it now? 10000 years or so?

edit on 14-12-2010 by DaMod because: (no reason given)

Finally someone that has some honest sense. I wish everyone thought like you, with the exception of the god thing.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
let the children play... besides logic will prevail in the end.

No what ever is associated most strongly and emotionally with survival will prevail in the end....

Logic has a very short shelf life with humans, but passions are what rule the world.

Honestly Why aren't they doing this with Ramadan, Passover, etc? Why pick on Christmas exclusively?

reply to post by nik1halo

At the end of the day, no-one knows for sure and it can't be proven either way, so why bother forcing your beliefs on others?

It's not about forcing ones views, it's about equal right to express views. Organised religion is everywhere. Churches/Mosques/Synagogues/Temples, TV Shows, Billboards, Religious schools, people's dress - it's everywhere you look. It does feel like it is being forced but from the religious side!

I was even told once by a Christian nutjob once that if an Atheist/Agnostic states their view of religion to someone of a legally accepted organised religion that you are technically vilifying them & that a person of religion technically cannot vilify religion of someone who does belong to church or organisation. So I told him his religion (Cult was the word used) was fake & told him to sue. He never did but that is just the mindset.

So to all the religious people who think Atheists have too much say etc etc. Well put up with it because we have to live with religious propaganda thrown in our face everyday from all angles & creeds. maybe one day the score will be evened and we will see advert for advert like the OP stated & a "De-conditioning Centre" for every church etc!

reply to post by Sinnthia


No. But I agree that all of those things are true & would probably add at least a half dozen others.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


See, what I did was...

I nullified the argument that something that has been around for a long time has any value just because it has been around for a long time. Maybe you were watching the other hand.

reply to post by LDragonFire


I can't believe the article used the word "Rattle" ... are people really so weak in their conviction that a bus ad has their faith rattled? I mean come on.

I support all first amendment rights so the atheists and any Christian or other religion has the right to express themselves if they're paying for the ad.

These sorts of ads help atheists know they aren't alone, in a country that is predominantly religious it can be alienating to be an atheist and this is one way to let the non-religious know that others out there think like them on the issue of god(s).

reply to post by LDragonFire


Welcome to my Hell. As long as you goosestep with the religious taliban in texas, you're fine. Step out of line though, and you're marked for life. I wear my mark proudly, I think for myself.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
There is a concerted, highly aggressive PUSH to damage, undermine, & insult "people of faith"

There is also (and has been for many years) a concerted, highly aggressive push to damage, undermine and insult atheists and atheism, too. I'm not part of either movement, but if one is permitted to exist, the other should be equally permitted.

"Religion" has been with civilization- even the "barbarians", from Day 1. It's not going anywhere. Ever.

Same with atheism.

But you guys need to stop with the aggression.

What aggression? A sign on a bus or billboard is aggression???

Live & let live. Live as you want & if someone doesn't like it, that's their problem

That, I agree with 100%! And if what you want to do is pass out fliers about Jesus or put an atheist ad on the side of a bus, then go for it!

Far more people who are not atheists also see them. These are "fightin words" in the Bible belt.

Freedom of Speech exists in the Bible Belt, too.

To a great many people, the ads feel like an attack & an insult.

I can't help how people feel. That doesn't mean they're right.

You want to silence anyone who doesn't agree with you so that you can shove your stuff down everybody else's throat so that you can pretend that everyone agrees with you.

WTF? I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

What is the need to publicly proclaim those feelings? What is the goal?

Why does ANYONE proclaim ANY of their feelings or opinions? It's called expression. Of course, some would have atheists and gays just NOT express themselves, while religions go on expressing just as they ALWAYS have.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Honestly Why aren't they doing this with Ramadan, Passover, etc? Why pick on Christmas exclusively?

No one's picking on Christmas. Google atheist ads and you'll see that this has been happening for years and in months such as October and February.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

They specifically mention God- which, for atheists, generally is synonymous (or symbolic or whatever) with "religion". I can understand the indignation if there are Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons or whatever beating down a person's door or accosting them on the street, proselytizing or getting in their face, but the mere sight of a display traditionally associated with the season? (What if people- Christians, specifically) threw the same kind of fit about Halloween displays?

Actually, I live in the Bible belt and know quite a few Christians who make quite a fuss about Halloween every year.

I consider myself a Christian, but I also consider everyone else's right to believe or disbelieve or have unorthodox beliefs as they see fit. Certainly, if Christians can advertise on busses then all other viewpoints, including rejection of belief, should also be allowed. Texas is certainly populated with a majority of Christians, which is why they feel free to escalate their propaganda war in a way they would not feel free to do if they did not feel so empowered.

Either allow all religions (or non-religions) to advertise on busses or allow none. It is not just to censor one particular faith (or lack thereof) just because they are not in the majority. I personally can live happily with NO advertisements for any particular denomination or faith and leave each citizen free think or do as they see fit. We as Americans are all capable of forming our convictions on our own and without media campaigns.

I also think we all could use better critical thinking skills and not be so gullible where advertising is concerned. Unfortunately, the saying that "it pays to advertise" is true in this country and as long as it pays so handsomely people will use either ethical or unethical tactics to sell their product.

Faith or lack thereof should not become a product to be sold.

reply to post by stuncrazy


Now I know the conversation has progressed rather without me.

Let me illustrate why writing "I still love you" and signing it from God reduces the deity (of the person who wrote that sign) to Santa status:

Let's imagine someone called Bob, whose sister Alice is in a long-distance relationship with a man named Jim.

Now, Bob has two children who write to Santa every year, and, because they have started to wonder why the presents that Santa gives them are never even vaguely related to what they asked for, and Bob can't stand for them to find out that it wasn't real just yet (their little faces... Santa makes them so happy), Bob has started writing little notes on each present that they get in their stocking, to explain why it's not quite what they asked for, and he signs them Santa - just to make sure that they're happy.

Anyway, moving on, Jim has not been in contact with Alice for a very long time, and in fact she begins to wonder whether her memories of her relationship with him are just her imagination. One of her friends reassures her that even if Jim's memory isn't real, she will be able to cope. Bob is concerned by this, because he personally believes that Jim is Alice's only chance at true happiness (did I mention that she's rather plain? She is), so, to stop Alice from risking her one chance at true happiness, he gets a generic postcard that could pass off as Jim's locale, and writes on it "I still love you --- Jim".

His only reason for writing this is to assure Alice that Jim is there for her, really, and he's sure that Jim would have written the same. However good his intentions were, though, the fact remains that what he has written to her is a lie - not necessarily because Jim does not love her, but because JIM DIDN'T WRITE IT.

Bob reduced Jim to Santa status. Even if Alice had in her diary from when she last saw Jim, him professing that he would always love her, JIM DID NOT WRITE THE POSTCARD.

Do you see how Jim and Santa are treated the same way by Bob?

Now consider that Bob wanted to reach out to loads of people and reassure them that God still loved them. He could say "Don't worry, God loves you!" on his bus-side message, but instead he chooses to write "I still love you" and signs it "God."

Which, as much as God might write something along those lines if he deigned to, is reducing God to Jim status, which as Jim is reduced to Santa status, is reducing God to Santa status.

Does that help? I hear a lot of demand for "Missing Links" on this site, so I thought chucking one in might make it easier.

a-hem

just chiming in here...won't weight in much on the atheist v christian debate much (I got plenty of threads on that of my own).

but will say this

ATTENTION ISLAM:
This is the -proper- way on how to wage war of ideology...pithy signs and light jabs...not bombs and jihad

ok, carry on.

Originally posted by nik1halo
Although my beliefs lean more towards the atheist side of things, I don't see the point in trying to persuade people there isn't a God. It's just as idealistic as religious preachers trying to shove their beliefs down other people's throats.



In this case I don't think that the athiests are trying to persuade/shove their (non)beliefs down anyone's throats. They are simply taking ad space to say, "Hey, you aren't alone in your (non)beliefs during this (religious) holiday season" to the people they know might feel depressed or "all alone" in the world at this time of year.

edit on 14-12-2010 by Jobuko because: tried to seperate my response from the original quote.....sorry newb

Originally posted by SaturnFX
a-hem

just chiming in here...won't weight in much on the atheist v christian debate much (I got plenty of threads on that of my own).

but will say this

ATTENTION ISLAM:
This is the -proper- way on how to wage war of ideology...pithy signs and light jabs...not bombs and jihad

ok, carry on.

A-hem, that was kind of a weak attack on an entire religion based on the actions of a very small percentage. What you seemed to miss was that this is just as accurate -
ATTENTION CHRISTIANS:
This is the -proper- way on how to wage a war of ideaology...pithy signs and light jabs...not bombs and christan war.

Just as accurate and since this thread has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, even MORE fitting.

Sestias, you nailed it here "Faith or lack thereof should not become a product to be sold." I'd add or used for exploitation.

Sinnthia, way to prove Hunka's point.

Y'All have a great evening.

I think the atheists could win a more points for their cause and rile the Christians (and any other religious groups) a bit more if instead of doing ads on buses, they started doing serious philanthropic and charity work. Running an openly secular charity would be a good way to demonstrate that empathy for fellow man is equally good a reason for helping without the need for religious dictates, any implication of holier than thou righteousness, or other such pretenses. Also I think there would be plenty of homeless or other down and out people that would appreciate such assistance without being preached to, or have it suggested that they should adopt some particular belief system to garner assistance while facing desperate times.

I think this bus thing is silly and perhaps a bit amusing, but what can I say.