Espionage Act: How the gov can engage in serious aggression against people of the united states

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


OK. I did some reading this time...Not the entire article. Well, because it draws too much ire from me to give that much of my own power over to those who breach the peace. Politicians/lobbyists and the ilk they serve.

I have a lame thread about this breach of peace item here.

I find the patriot act/Espionage act and the vast majority, if not all E.O.s in direct violation of PEACE. I wonder if these high and mighty suits can ever accept responsibility for wronging those who elected/empowered them. Or so we are under the impression we voted for this mushroom treatment.

All the while, this (WL) is what is getting "media play." Something else even more under-handed is being played-out as we drift down Unawares Lane...

I think I am due for a bike ride or something...

reply to post by quantumdragon


well i can think up "could happen in the future" scenarios too. some of them are more than a little likely given the propositions some of the gentlepeople on this thread have suggested. i was summarily labeled a racist by at least 2 of the posters for theorizing the dangerous nature of putting a bunch of already angry poor folks, completely at the mercy of poverty. who knew? i didn't see that one coming, did you?

i have a sneakin' suspicion this same thing happened in south africa, only our apartheid has been over for almost a generation. probably frustrating the hell out of the people that wanted to bring down the US a long time ago. so in the absence of that venue, we now have the spectre of starvation looming large on the horizon, right next to our overseas jobs.

reply to post by undo


it's worse in S. Africa from what i here, the line between rich and poor is a razors edge, and racism is also an issue there, again from what i hear.

reply to post by undo


You aren't talking about angry poor people you are talking about angry black people.

The majority of welfare recipients are white:
findarticles.com...

And not only white, but white single mothers.

You say you don't want to believe you aren't secure so you don't feel paranoid then people wonder how things in the OP happen.

To the OP, we'll see Thursday which way the courts are going to take this. I think it is all riding on whether or not Wikileaks is going to be considered journalism or not.... Which really freaks me out, because if they rule it isn't, then that means the government can define what journalism means... This is going to get very interesting.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


i think it's a statistic. the largest racial group will naturally make up the largest percentage of statistics (with the exception of things like non-cultural based religions). was that factored in? or is it just raw percentages? also, i suggested a race war would erupt between POOR people not just poor blacks. and i showed as an example, a riot in which racial tensions were pretty apparent. this is why i believe that were the people currently surviving on welfare, because they're poor, be told they would no longer be receiving welfare, or social security or retirements, shudder. total chaos would ensue. some folks like that kinda thing. the closest i get to a bit of chaos fun is in a video game, but in real life? not.a.chance.

another problem i'm having with all this is the insistence that it mirrors the paranoia of fascist dictators like hitler, who we've heard about so many times, he's practically tatooted on our rear ends.as the proverbial baddest guy of all times, when Stalin had him beat in sheer cruelty and numbers of deaths (many of whom were his own people), that i'm amazed he's never mentioned as one of the most paranoid dictators in modern history nor shown as an example for how not to conduct government. from this i can only ascertain that it is in fact another part of that big elephant in the room that everyone's ignoring

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by AdAbsurdum

 

i think it's a statistic. the largest racial group will naturally make up the largest percentage of statistics (with the exception of things like non-cultural based religions). was that factored in? or is it just raw percentages?

I'm sure you can find the study to check it out.

also, i suggested a race war would erupt between POOR people not just poor blacks. and i showed as an example, a riot in which racial tensions were pretty apparent.

Because white cops beat the ever living crap out of a black guy, poor white people and poor black people are going to try and kill each other because they have no money? Uh.. Yeah. Not because they are black or white, it may look like that on the surface, but because of scarcity.

this is why i believe that were the people currently surviving on welfare, because they're poor, be told they would no longer be receiving welfare, or social security or retirements, shudder. total chaos would ensue. some folks like that kinda thing. the closest i get to a bit of chaos fun is in a video game, but in real life? not.a.chance.

If you didn't want chaos your generation should have thought about that before allowing the Federal Government to create this mess. Now, we have to collectively reap what was collectively sown.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


my generation? what you gonna blame ME for this crap now? i've heard everything. it's my fault that popes did the crusades too. i shot people, stabbed people, drained the economy, i just let the problems arise, hey, and well, gee, here ya go:

to the OP:

does this look familar at all?



linky cause it won't embed
www.youtube.com...

part 2
www.youtube.com...

part 3
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by undo


I gathered from this thread that you are older than me....

It isn't your personal fault. It is the failing of your entire collective generation. Not just you, frankly you aren't that important, but you do illustrate the self centered nature of your generation that birthed the narcissism rampant in mine. My point was: that since the generation previous to mine, which happens to be yours due to no failing of your own, allowed the Federal Government to create this mess we all have to pay for it.

Now, as a member of my generation I intend to correct the problems I see. That could mean I fail, that could mean I'm successful, and either one of those could mean you are going to have to deal with a whole lot of chaos. At the end of the night, I'm ok with that. I want to be able to say, "I tried, son. Here is where I failed." Instead of, "I just try not to think about how insecure we all really are because it upsets me."

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


well i would say you are the one who is self-centered because you assume everyone is equally capable of what you feel you are personally able to do, and if they haven't done what you INTEND to do, they are less than you. okay, i admit, i'm not as good as you. i'm also not in possession of good health and haven't been for years. before that, i was so dirt poor i had to dig pop cans and beer cans out of garbage cans in parks and recycle them at machines that paid 5 cents per pound, so my husband, son and i could eat, and he had a full time job.

i did finally get work, in fact, i had 3 jobs at the same time at one point. but then i got sick, real sick. it's a miracle i'm even here at this very moment. i was so busy trying to recover, i had no energy to do anything else.

that's part of the problem with this entire issue. not everyone is in possession of the same life benefits, life associations or continued good health. i'm a writer, singer, musician, poet, and artist. i've also went to college on a grant i am still paying back to this day, nearly 15 years later, with aspirations of being a doctor of natural medicine, but had to quit, first due to taking care of my elderly mother who had advanced alzheimers, and secondly because i contracted breast cancer. if there were to have been a time in my life where i could've made a difference, it was snatched from my hands by the fickleness of dna and the insidiousness of gulf war syndrome. the chemotherapy for the cancer, gave me diabetes, compounding the nerve damage from the GWS. did you expect me to go picket, when sometimes i can't even lift a cup of coffee or turn the lid off a jar that's already been opened?

i dunno, sometimes i think people stay stuff before they think

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by AdAbsurdum

 

well i would say...

Yeah I know. In the snow, uphill both ways. Life is hard, wear a helmet. I'm not going to get into a who's-had-a-hard life contest.

I don't think you are lesser than me, by the way. I recognize that you are at liberty to infer what you like, so I'm not going to tell you to think differently. I would recommend not making any assumptions as to my health however, as you don't know me from Adam.

did you expect me to go picket, when sometimes i can't even lift a cup of coffee or turn the lid off a jar that's already been opened?

No, but I did expect you to do more than nothing. You can obviously type and think. That leads me to believe that you can read as well. You are capable of much more than suffering.

Regardless of your circumstance the fact remains: Future generations reap what the previous generations sow.

i dunno, sometimes i think people stay stuff before they think

If you thought about that statement you would have been able to say it with certainty.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


have you changed it yet? did you vote for obama?
or bush? i voted twice in my life. once for a democrat and once for an independent, and then just gave up voting because it lost all meaning. i was too busy being sick to vote. i'm not kidding either. one of the problems you will encounter when talking with me on this subject is, that the GWS put me in a coma so yeah, you're talking to a person with brain damage. brain damage can be an odd thing. there's alot of ways the brain can be damaged. you're looking at one of the ways now. it can make a person razor sharp focused, or so incredibly spastic, you can't pin them down to a single point. it can make them obsessive, self-centered (i mean, how do you get well when you're that profoundly ill, if you don't focus on your health enough to get better?), and it can also make them paranoid, especially of further pain and suffering. you understand, it's a natural instinct to avoid life threatening cirucmstances. i suppose i could train myself to just not care, but that doesn't seem to be a mentally healthy position to have either.

short of telling me i should be on medication, do you think it's possible that i might have a point that millions of poor people who are already angry with their government, suddenly being removed from government assistance and retirement plans, and left to starve, could cause heightened racial tensions the likes of which we have never seen in this country? that's what it looks like from where i'm sitting. call me silly, call me stupid, but don't call me a racist.

Is it just me but I thought that statutes and acts , arent actual laws !

So how can the government charge you for a crime that isnt an actual law ,

you would need to be A: caught in the act ,and B: have caused injury loss or harm to an individual!

Corpus delecti ( the body of the crime)

To be convicted by law you need both the act or body of the crime , and then the loss injury or harm to someone or their rights!

and since the espionage Act and Patriot act , are for the country of america , or government of america , they arent a human being ( individual ) , they are Ideology .

Load of BS , governments are instituted amongst men and women to protect and maintain our rights !
they arent here to collect taxes or order us around .
Its about damn time they remembered thats why they are here

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by AdAbsurdum

 

have you changed it yet?

You see a difference yet? How about the impact I've had in my local community, you see a difference there?

did you vote for obama?

I didn't vote because I knew he was going to win and it would be business as usual and because there was no candidate that I could throw my lot in with in good faith. I didn't by his Hope and Change rhetoric like so many others.

or bush?

Wasn't old enough the first time and the second time my absentee ballot was one that got "lost".

short of telling me i should be on medication, do you think it's possible that i might have a point that millions of poor people who are already angry with their government, suddenly being removed from government assistance and retirement plans, and left to starve, could cause heightened racial tensions the likes of which we have never seen in this country? that's what it looks like from where i'm sitting. call me silly, call me stupid, but don't call me a racist.

I don't think you need medication. To answer your question, in short, no. While I agree that if TSHTF poor people are going to eat this nation from the inside out, I do not agree that lines would be drawn on racial lines. Surely, in some communities, yes. But not some "Helter-Skelter" scenario, no.

I also don't think you are a racist. I just think you are prejudice.

reply to post by sapien82


vftb.net...

i thought this radio show was pretty interesting. this guy and his interviewers seem to think julian assange and the entire wikileaks scenario, is an internal struggle between agencies of the gov, and that there's no way on god's green earth that a private could have access to so many (or any, in his case) top secret documents, nor the ability to just copy them at will. most government computers have no usb ports available to copy things from, for this very reason. in addition, top secret data is broken into sections and becomes the purview of compartmentalized units. this stuff has safety features on top of safety features. the data is kept in vaults, and only removed by signature, which is verified, or passworded with a route you have to know and follow. how a private managed it, i have no idea. none, whatsoever. it just sounds too fabulous.

add to that, now anon is going around trying to black mail american businesses who don't want to be implicated in crimes, and some are even suggesting using the stuff to just attack anything american that has money, like american banks or american businesses, even if they had no involvement in the wiki leaks stuff. and they aren't just encouraging americans to do this, they are encouraging people all over the world to do this using the LOIC.

now i don't agree with this espionage act, not for a minute, but holey rusted metal batman, this is getting out of hand. if you think a non - american (assange is australian) is going to be tried for treason against the united states, you just aren't reading the material.

reply to post by zroth


It's only "too late" for those that give up. "θάνατο πριν από ντροπή" n "Death Befor Dishonor". "Death is certain, Life is not"

scoutsniper

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


stop calling me a racist. just stop. stop stop stop. don't bust out some dictionary defintion of prejudice. dang this is the answer to ANY attempt to discuss this stuff!

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


They've already begun redefining to suit their own needs. With a stacked court that has proven to work against the interests of the people, things aren't looking good.

news.antiwar.com...

Ex Post Facto laws are unconstitutional but that won't stop them because it means nothing to them. Remember, it's just a piece of paper to them.

Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
reply to post by undo

 

You aren't talking about angry poor people you are talking about angry black people.

The majority of welfare recipients are white:
findarticles.com...

And not only white, but white single mothers.

Yea heck theres where the big money is. Government subsidized one parent faimilies. Some call it leveling the playing field for females and kids. But its just more debt more intrest on the debt. Marxist -marriage is slavery slave reperations. By god if a woman wants to be an independent mother then by god the tax payers should pay for it....and help raise generation after generation of governement grand prize award winners.