True Patriots Are Christians

reply to post by hotbakedtater


i agree with you tater, even having thoughts like that make you retarded. this isn't a christian nation, it never was. how is this hard to understand?

A true patriot in my opinion, is one who adheres to the values of the very foundation of this country. The United States of America was created with the idea of individual liberty in mind. The will of the individual be done, as long as that individual's will did not infringe on the individual will of another. PEACE! EQUALITY! FREEDOM! and all the other morals and principles that set apart America from all other "sovereign" nation states.

Democracy! although while crippled somewhat by capitalism and the elitists who undermine its principle of free and open trade by monopolizing markets and ostracizing those not in their circle, is still the main idea which supports alll of the idealistic vibes of American existence. "The Beacon Of Light".

We as Americans have allowed false pretenses and a superiority complex, advertized by foreign interest groups in the guise of American bred, divert our "light" and transform it to darkness. The East, although the mother of philosophy, has gone through this painful period of trial and error for the sake of growth to give an example of what the 4 fathers of this great country, mostly Masonic in nature, to avoid and enhance through correcting those errors.

Now the WEST, dominated by America, has gone full circle and are now at that point of a dreaded form of "caste system"; or an unfair practice of a once great idea/society. A true American/patriot is one who instead of revolting, refuses to cooperate with greedy profit seeking extremists, as far a human conditions for others are concerned, to increase their goal of empowerment and control over the environment they have in fact illegally infiltrated for their own selfish ends.

A patriot is a person of a great sense of "responsibility" and duty to their "faith/self", "family/friends", "general good of their fellow man/neighbor/world" and overall charity to the very consciousness/awareness that is within and surrounds them, by which they define themselves and their very menial existence. As one NATION can we stand the test of time and become Godly.

There are those who wish to destroy all form of order for the sake of satiating the disgusting, to all truly civilized peoples who answer to an inner sense of JUST and not some outter ideal/entity of liberation through immolation/adulation, and increase their influence over the ignorant, who they maintain in mental prisons of not knowing by witholding the truth from. These people are truly worthy of death.

A patriot in my opinion is anyone, regardless of station or education, who are born with an inept sense of servitude for those in need. We are to serve or the saying "two ears and one mouth" would have no relevance to anything but a simple mathematical equation. A true patriot listens and acts of one accord for the betterment of ALL's greater quality of life.

There is no need for a faith to carry out this simple task of "looking out" for one another. Even within a "secret society", good is good and bad is bad and by the works of each can be judged by the multitude of the living. There is no need to fear death for in life do we live and experience and in death do we reflect, admire and regret. Keep strong brothers and sisters. Walk away from all the paths of destitution, or the msitakes of our past blood. Lets us all share in the gift of a world, given to our care.

Together we will succeed, whether by realiziation or necessity; "time waits for no man" and when the time comes the "inherent goodness of man" will be the cause of the outcome and the evil shall fall. But the evil shall be embrace and all of our folly will be in the illusion of duality and the ignorance of love; and the staunch arrogance, stubborness or our anger caused by miscommunication, and a general misunderstaning of our lost, but yet still growing, brother and sisters.


And by this "one love" is understood. A true patriot is of life not country but begins with country and overstood by a general curiousity of what surrounds our limitations. Be well and be true the future depends on you.


reply to post by hotbakedtater

Well, this is just playing around with concepts.

Personally, being a patriot is pretty ignorant. Then again, personally, so is being Christian. Let me explain.

Being patriot; being loyal to your country, can lead to discrimination and childish fights resulting in civilian death.

Being a Christian; being loyal to Jesus, can lead to discrimination and childish fights resulting in civilian death.

On the other hand;

Being humane; being loyal to humanity; will only result in you helping others.

Being a person believing of god, not in god, will only result in you helping other people, while keeping your views to yourself.

reply to post by gandhi


While I respect your point of view, I sincerely disagree.

Being Christian, in my opinion, is supporting the view of the Christ. Jesus Christ. This is what Christian means to me.
His words were and still are there for all to see and understand.
Peace, love, kindness, turn the other cheek.
There is nothing in the true words of Christ that instill anger and aggression.

I am sorry that religion has evolved to this point. It has totally taken away from the true meaning of the word Christian. I believe Jefferson was correct in his evaluation of religion.

If someone truly believes this they have not done there homework in my opinion.
Ya'll should read Occult America : The Secret History Of How Mysticism Shaped Our Nation.. Author is Mitch Horowitz, good reading as well.
Anyways the remark stating that true Christians are Patriots is false as also it is ignorant.

I agree OP. I'm actually really disgusted with the state of affairs in not only the United States, but also in other countries where modern fundamentalist christianity have had an effect. Look at Uganda. Just look at it!

To be honest, I was going to troll the hell out this thread too, but when I read your OP I realized we already agreed with each other, at least on the important points conveyed in this thread.

Most people who describe themselves as "Christian" in the United States are really nondenominational evangelical born again end timers who are nothing more than overdeveloped underbrained theocratic fascists. They don't believe in God. They believe in "believing" because of the social benefits it gives them in their chosen or hereditary social circle.

Yes, a social circle can be hereditary. People are raised from birth exclusively in evangelical christian social circles. Home schooled and allowed to socialize only with the children of other evangelicals. The fundies call it "Christian Education." I call it brain washing and child abuse.

I think being a true Christian is greater than being a patriot, but they should go hand in hand.

Alex Jones has Christian values, however that should not be confused with Sarah Palin's religion of mostly Bush supporters and people against homosexuality, abortion, etc. Alex Jones, just to use him as an example, is also against abortion, but is also against the foreign wars. A true Christian is someone who does not start violence for an unjust cause. And so if you are like Bush and believe in preemptive war you are not really a Christian.

Originally posted by Control

who are nothing more than overdeveloped underbrained theocratic fascists.

the problem with this statement is that is really is not true. they are very well educated within the 'acceptable' indoctrination institutions on the approved list by those in power. what they are learning is useless but by educational "standards" they are well learned.

otherwise, I tend to agree with quite a bit of what you wrote.

Originally posted by Expat888
With the bloody history of christianity - both past and present.. I find that more frightening than any islamic state.. There are very valid reasons why separation of church and state were written into the constitution when the u.s was founded.. The founding fathers were fully aware of the dangers of a theocracy.. Tbh the christians and the way they shove their religion on others was one of the reasons I left the u.s back in 80..

Though I share your disdain of overzealous religion fervor: That is a very common misconception: friend: just so you are aware:. Technically the "Separation of church and state" are nowhere "written in the constitution " but in Jeffersons leter to the "Danbury'Baptists": from wiki:

Separation of church and state
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




The concept of separation of church and state refers to the distance in the relationship between organized religion and the nation state. The term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state," as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802. The original text reads: "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."[1] The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. The phrase itself does not appear in the U.S. Constitution. The First Amendment to the Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The concept of separation has since been adopted in a number of countries, to varying degrees depending on the applicable legal structures and prevalent views toward the proper role of religion in society. A similar principle of laïcité has been applied in France and Turkey, while some socially secularized countries such as Norway have maintained constitutional recognition of an official state religion. The concept parallels various other international social and political ideas, including secularism, disestablishment, religious liberty, and religious pluralism. Whitman (2009) observes that in many European countries, the state has, over the centuries, taken over the social roles of the church, leading to a generally secularized public sphere.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

I find it mildly amusing that the majority of replies here have revolved more around the definition of a Christian than the definition of a Patriot. If we're gonna get down to brass tacks in regards to Christianity, then let's go quid-pro-quo and do the same to patriotism. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington,

Prior to July 4, 1776, the "Founding Fathers" of America were in no way patriots. Officially, prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence, the men who fought for American independence were colonial British subjects. "Their country" was England and the only form of patriotism available to them would have been fighting for the monarchy which claimed rule over them. "America" didn't exist and, thus, it was actually traitorous to fight for her to become sovern.

In order to be a real patriot, you've got to be fighting for either a maintaining of status quo or an increase in power base or interests of the country and government you are fighting for. Under that definition, I would actually argue that it is pretty damn tough for a Christian to be an actual patriot in the USA today. Exactly what would we be fighting for? Our current direction of the nation, as dictated by the government, is one which flies in the face of the Good Lord. I'm not saying that there aren't many great Christians fighting for our military and our nation, but I think it is a stretch to argue that they support everything they are fighting for. I'd really argue that it is pretty tough for anyone today to consider themselves a modern "patriot" unless they support issues like abortion, destruction of the middle class, corporate elitism, self denial, gradual abolition of the Constitution, and complete loss of America's individuality.

For what it's worth, I actually find myself having more respect for modern day expatriots (depending on their reasons for traveling that path) and I am very much a Christian. I would have no problem at all fighting for my family, my community, or what this country was founded on and what it should be... but I would not even consider fighting for what the country is today or for the fools who have hijacked America's government.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I have plenty of things to say about Christians, the majority are not very nice.

But for someone to make such an outlandish claim, is to ignore the wrath that Christians inflicted upon non-believers from centuries ago up to the modern day.

Christians are the opposite of Patriots.

They believe 100% that anyone that doesn't follow their religion and accepts Christ, will be going to hell "for all eternity" after they die. They can try to brush it off all they want, but anyone who believes this develops a psychosis where they will (at the very least) subconsciously view all 'outsiders' as lesser to them.

Since they believe they are the "one true religion" (like every other religion), then they feel that affords Christians "the right" to take over whatever country they reside in, aka the United States. They like to claim the US is a Christian nation, and thus, all citizens of said nation should abide by their Christian rule.

Opposite of patriotism. This sort of behavior is malleable to authority as well.

Modern day Christians are the anti-Patriot. I speak mostly of the American religious right-wing authoritarian psychos, of course.

I disagree because of the "Christ's" actions in the temple with the money changers.... also the Christ would not return for peace but for war in revelations.... Christ knew then violent revolt was a losing cause.... I believe Jesus' plan was to become the figure instead of Moses and to bring the Jewish people back to Yah Weh instead of following the Jewish corrupt officials who were allowing the Romans to use them and communicate, control and gain trust of the Jewish people.

In that way the spell on the Jewish people could be lifted and their condition of slavery could be fully realized. The Romans with a revolt on their hands would kill the Jewish leaders and have to deal with the new Jewish Authority Jesus and his Qumranian Sect personally. Then Jesus could bring Heaven on Earth by taking power over the Jewish people and leading a revolt through a fully realized belief in Yah Weh.

Upon realizing he would be killed or only be able to serve his design in death, Jesus chose to stage his death and die a "martyr". All the while he would go to France and recover from his subsequent injuries. Jesus didnt get to live and see the results of his actions but did travel the world spreading his gospel and fusing it around the world, in the hopes of toppling the Roman empire before its influence would spread and become unstoppable.

LOL just maybe


reply to post by suigeneris

reply to post by SyphonX


Generalize much?
Some Christians do fall into the broad sweeping brush strokes you attempted to paint the entirety of Christ's believers with, but it is by no means all of us. Generalizations such as the ones seen in this thread against Christians are every bit as ridiculous and unintelligent as statements like "All Muslims are terrorists" or "All atheists are evil, morally void people." Funny thing about intollerance, usually the folks who complain the most about it are pretty damn intollerant themselves.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by SyphonX

 

Generalize much?

Some Christians do fall into the broad sweeping brush strokes you attempted to paint the entirety of Christ's believers with, but it is by no means all of us. Generalizations such as the ones seen in this thread against Christians are every bit as ridiculous and unintelligent as statements like "All Muslims are terrorists" or "All atheists are evil, morally void people." Funny thing about intollerance, usually the folks who complain the most about it are pretty damn intollerant themselves.

I don't really care if you think I'm "generalizing". The religious right in the United States have done their damage, and set this country back about 50 years. Every so-called Christian I've ever known, all of them, from my friends to my family, all of them support war. All of them are extremely simple and have no depth of insight in politics or corruption. They subscribe to "believing" in their government 100%, and are always the first to get "angry" (to say the least), whenever someone challenges US "values". Also, every person I've known to call for the middle-east to be "bombed to glass" (yea, those people), all the ones I've personally heard say those things were self-proclaimed Christians.

So yeah, I generalize ANY follower of an Abrahamic 'faith'. They are a 3-fold, organized self-destructing tyranny on our fragile planet. I don't care if someone wants to read the bible and be 'faithful', these are not the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about people bringing "Christ" into politics, or into authority, or agreeing in things so much that the person becomes malleable and brainwashed.

In the end it does not matter.
We are all just a speck in the universe.....

That doesn't even make any sense. What does religion have to do with love of country?

reply to post by SyphonX


Extremist Christians are eerily similar to extremist Muslims in their zeal for being the "one true religion".

They tend to deny that too.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
Wrong. True patriots understand and respect the fact that each of us are allowed to practice any faith we choose to.

Saying that only christians are patriots is stupid, and flat out ignorant.

Agreed.
Well said.