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Originally posted by aRogue
Is the link the OP posted, working for anybody else atm?
Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
I might make the point that this is precisely why it is important to provide a context for archaeological material...even OOPARTS. If a site has been properly excavated, and artifacts and features precisely mapped within the matrix, then one may return to the site reports centuries later and examine the resources with new eyes and/or technology.
gee thats exactly what lee and his crew did
but it didn't count that time
Originally posted by DeltaPan
Originally posted by aRogue
Is the link the OP posted, working for anybody else atm?
Nope.
I was just ghoing to mention it seems to have been removed.
Wish i'd downloaded the site with Htrack or Webcow.
Too close to too many truths, ay.
Edit to add: Google has pages cached...
www.google.co.uk...
If these suddenly get removed, we'll know the information on this site is too sensitive for somebody in power, innit mate.edit on 15-12-2010 by DeltaPan because: Add Google link to cached pages.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
You get an investigator whose reputation is beyond reproach, you get an artifact excavated in a sealed context with clear stratification, you have multiple dating techniques in agreement, then you have a serious shot at changing history. You have a guy with a curio in his hand saying "I found it in a hole"...well, in a world where archaeology is more than a just a planning and development issue, you might get the time of day. But right now chances are slim.
Originally posted by Logarock
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
You get an investigator whose reputation is beyond reproach, you get an artifact excavated in a sealed context with clear stratification, you have multiple dating techniques in agreement, then you have a serious shot at changing history. You have a guy with a curio in his hand saying "I found it in a hole"...well, in a world where archaeology is more than a just a planning and development issue, you might get the time of day. But right now chances are slim.
Which is what so much of respected archaeology was for many years. A lot of smart guys that did much that still stands to this day that may be considered as you say "with a curio in his hand". But really that would be a misrepresentation of their work and methods. I mean we are going to trash the golden age of american archaeology, some many records of early digs, the writings educated expositor's in light of the modern schools and its political hypersensitivity.
One thing that comes to mind in the modern political climate are the vast number of testimony from local tribes that they had no knowlege of those that built the mounds and earthworks of the mound building culture. Now in modern times this info is disregarded and any local tribe that as historic roots in these areas are now making claimes to an ancestry with the mound builders.
Originally posted by Logarock
My point really is that the rise of cooper use in North America was not in isolation. One can compare tools and weapons from other bronze and cooper cultures around the world and see what when on.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The difference is that there was no smelting of copper in North America.
Originally posted by Logarock
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The difference is that there was no smelting of copper in North America.
It is certain that there was.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by Logarock
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The difference is that there was no smelting of copper in North America.
It is certain that there was.
No, we're talking cold hammering and perhaps annealing...not sure of that, but smelting was not done,therefore no alloys like bronze.
It is known that during the European Bronze Age, large quantities of copper were mined in North America. However, no-one is able to answer as to what became of the copper that was mined there.
If we were to add the two problems together, do we have the solution? Of course, the answer for the accepted scientific dogma is “no”, as it argues that there were no transoceanic contacts in the Bronze Age, and hence copper could not have been traded from the New to the Old World. But perhaps there is sufficient scientific evidence available that will alter the assumptions of the scientists.
The chief ingredient for bronze is copper. The era around 3000 BC saw more than 500,000 tons of copper being mined in the so-called Upper Peninsula, in the American state of Michigan. The largest mine was on Isle Royale, an island in Lake Superior, near the Canadian border. Here, there are thousands of prehistoric copper pits, dug thousands of years ago by ancient peoples unknown. The Minong Belt on Isle Royale has a distance of one and three quarter miles in length and is nearly four hundred feet wide. The copper pits range ten tot thirty feet deep with connecting tunnels; one archaeologist estimated that their digging would take the equivalent of 10,000 men working for 1000 years.
After two centuries of speculation, no-one has ever satisfactorily explained where the world’s purist copper might have gone. Extraction from Isle Royal began in 5300 BC, with some even claiming that it began as early as 6000 BC. Evidence for smelting is known to exist from “only” 4000 BC onwards.
The exact size of the mined ore is perhaps never going to be exactly determined, but what is known, is that ca. 1200 BC, all mining activity was halted. But around 1000 AD, mining was restarted and lasted until 1320 AD. During this period, a moderate 2000 tons were removed.
In North America, not even 1% has been recovered.
In South America the case is quite different. This early familiarity with metals then developed into full metallurgy with smelting and various metals being purposefully alloyed. Metallurgy in Mesoamerica developed from contacts with South America, as such the largest section of this entry will be dedicated to it.
Originally posted by Logarock
I have seen experts that say many of the cooper celts had to have been from smelting and mold. Many bear zero evidence of having been worked or beaten into shape. Besides lets give these native americans some credit. I mean at some point they would have discoverd the low temps needed to melt cooper and the light would have come on.
Originally posted by aRogue
Originally posted by DeltaPan
Originally posted by aRogue
Is the link the OP posted, working for anybody else atm?
Nope.
I was just ghoing to mention it seems to have been removed.
Wish i'd downloaded the site with Htrack or Webcow.
Too close to too many truths, ay.
Edit to add: Google has pages cached...
www.google.co.uk...
If these suddenly get removed, we'll know the information on this site is too sensitive for somebody in power, innit mate.edit on 15-12-2010 by DeltaPan because: Add Google link to cached pages.
Well that sucks! Hmmm...
is there another website that's similar to Forgotten Age Research? Do you know for a fact it got removed or perhaps the host server crashed or something along those lines?
To those who investigate allegations of archaeological cover-ups, there are disturbing indications that the most important archaeological institute in the United States, the Smithsonian Institute, an independent federal agency, has been actively suppressing some of the most interesting and important archaeological discoveries made in the Americas.
The Vatican has been long accused of keeping artefacts and ancient books in their vast cellars, without allowing the outside world access to them. These secret treasures, often of a controversial historical or religious nature, are allegedly suppressed by the Catholic Church because they might damage the church's credibility, or perhaps cast their official texts in doubt. Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that something very similar is happening with the Smithsonian Institution.
Originally posted by Logarock
JC, here is some info you will like taken from a writer on the Gosnold expedition 1602 said to be the first English expedition to Nantucket are, Cape Cod, Marthas Viniard. Local tribes in the area used cooper at that time. There is also some other very good info, strange really. Anyway this info blows up the idea that cooper use may have ended many years before 1602 with the fall of the mound building culture.
Cooper In Use By Massachusetts 1602
Before this cooper was noted as used by local tribes in the same area. In records from the 1524 voyage of Varrazno for the King of France landing around Rhode Island. Page 26.
1524 Voyage Cooper Use Noted
Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Yeah, the Acambaro story is an interesting one. I have my skepticisms on both sides of any oopart stories. However, I admittedly am more skeptical of the mainstream.
I'm sure you and others are familiar with the Russell Burrows Cave "Hoax". There are many links about it. A complete and total hoax. And proven to be so. Or so I thought.
A few years ago a couple of guys came down here with a signed letter from Russell giving them permission to dig on his land. Funny thing was they were very secretive about it. I thought it was laughable until I verified their names. I wouldn't have even known they were down here if it weren't for a friend. Anyway, my piont being, what were these guys doing back down here excavating a known hoax site, and spending an investor's money to do it. Unless maybe it wasn't a hoax after all. Just one of those curiousities.