ATS now seems to be a pro Anarchist board ??? what is that all about ...?????

Hi there to all

I have been very concerned by all the extremely nasty & distasteful comments that are posted recently.

ATS now seems to be a pro Anarchist board ??? what is that all about ...?????
there are even people praising , `encouraging` and enciting people to commit crime , injure and riot ...

a good example is the "Awesome riot footage thread".....
i have even sent msgs to mods but to be honest i didnt get a good response.

shame ATS has gone this way.

snoopyuk

reply to post by snoopyuk


I think you may find that people are just fed up, fed up with a system you pay into but get nothing in return. The people are awakening and are fighting back, there is a feeling of resentment and of being told lies by the authorities add this to the bankers cleaning up, governments elected by the people not serving the people, not listening so now we have anarchy.

They created a monster !!

reply to post by snoopyuk


you say anarchy like its a bad thing.While not really an anarchist myself I tend to support it till something less restrictive comes along

reply to post by snoopyuk


It will blow over in a few weeks.

those promoting hatred and destruction on this board will eventually realise that it is they who will become restricted. for the enlightened who wish non violent change i am sure they realise the process will be a long one.
the danger here is the pack mentality which disregards the consequenses of actions which sadly can tarnish others who frequent these boards.
do not play into the hands of the authorities who wish to restrict by dragging down this site. i for one wish this site to be active till my last breath.
f

reply to post by snoopyuk

Would you like ATS to censor out opinions you disagree with?

Personally I'm disgusted with all the posters condemning students for protesting in England last night, but I would not frequent a forum which denied them the right to express that view..

I understand your frustrations. ATS changes though and it appears it is going through the irresponsible Anarchist attitude of latter teen years. Soon it will reach its early twenties and who knows at that time, either we will mature and find a good job or party-arty-hardy until the night is gone.

My point is, this Anarchism is just an ATS phase and we will grow out of it. Just as hot topics come and go here so do the moods.

The posters advocating anarchy will soil their pants if anarchy actually occurred.

I wouldn't worry too much, as I would guess most of the anarchists on ATS are somewhere in the 15-18 age range.

To support anarchy, you have to have a lack of understanding about human nature and human society.

As bad as governments may be, I'd still prefer that, to people roaming around killing, raping and stealing with impunity, and making sure I stayed in the good books of whichever 'tribal warlord' was in control of the land I lived on.

Originally posted by Kailassa
Personally I'm disgusted with all the posters condemning students for protesting in England last night, but I would not frequent a forum which denied them the right to express that view.

I don't think I saw too many sensible people condemning students for protesting.

All the rightful condemnation was for the thugs and rent-a-mob riff-raff who were indulging in violence and vandalism; the irony being, that if this mindless behaviour occurred from young people on a council estate, or amongst football hooligans, then the same posters who were lauding the rioting mob's behaviour, would be quick to condemn the behaviour in these other settings. I can't stand hypocrisy.

It very much depends on what you mean by 'nasty' and 'distasteful' - it's a very subjective term. I have seen many, the majority on here challenging the status quo. I'm not sure what you mean by anarchy, either - it can be interpreted in different ways. More specifics would have been helpful..

reply to post by wcitizen


I think that most people on ATS who use the term ''anarchy'' are referring to 'an absence of government or organised power structure', or something along those lines.

Which obviously would never work, unless you want to alter millions of years of evolution and change human nature and society.


Of course, any ATS member who dreams of anarchy could always emigrate to Somalia - I believe that it's working quite well over there.

Spray painting a statue of Churchill, throwing some stuff around and shouting things at Prince Charles is hardly anarchy now is it

Bull dozing a statue of Churchill, kicking in the doors of the houses of parliament and setting fire to Prince Charles, that would be anarchy

reply to post by snoopyuk


As has been pointed out many times in each of the threads discussing the actions, what do people expect?

It is Human nature to fight against something seen as unjust.

While I don't support mindless violence, I do certainly support people fighting hard for what is right. And in the instances displayed it is clear what is right and what is wrong.

I also support self defense. If someone imprisons me illegally, and then attacks me, I WILL fight back. And just as at each of the protests we have seen in the UK, when a group of people are imprisoned illegally, and then assaulted by the people supposedly in position to support their rights and freedoms, I expect that group to defend themselves.

The first protest at Millbank exposed the raw nerve. And while I don't agree with the action of that day, I certainly understand the anger. I cannot support the students on that occasion, and I do believe the rogue element took control.

However, each instance since has shown Police kettling the students, restricting and controlling them unfairly, and then attacking them without cause.

Specifically, at the protest this week, the crowd was kettled into parliament square early on. Rightfully so they became very angry.
The Met then stated for all to see that those wishing to leave could do so through Victoria Street.
Thousands moved there to leave and were confronted by a line of riot police and officers on horseback. They were then beaten with clubs.
Rightfully, those being attacked fought back.
The Police then charged into that crowd on horseback.

What did the Police expect to happen?

From what I see there are debates going on here on ATS. The board doesn't "support" one thing or another. It facilitates discussion.
Emotions are high, and opinions are varied. But personally, I see many of those who are repeating the "mindless thugs" argument as ill-informed, naive, or blatantly lying about what happened.
Many of these people seem to have no idea what the argument is even about. They consistently get the facts wrong, know nothing about the motivations, and can't be bothered to research these things for themselves.
I can certainly say that the majority were not watching what was actually happening. They are repeating the propaganda being stated by the BBC in support of the government, and nothing more.

I expect those I debate with to actually have a clue.
I can watch the BBC and see their biased views any day of the week. I prefer to come here to be challenged on an argument, not be met by a wall of ignorant repetition and half-formed views.

A few things that should be in the forefront, but are consistently ignored by those in response...

1. The Lib Dems vowed, on camera, in written statements and pledges, that they would not support a fee hike. They gave immense support to alternative ideas, stating one after another that any fee rise would potentially destroy this country and create an unfair advantage for the wealthy. They not only reneged on these pledges but they supported a TRIPLING of fee's.

2. Without that student vote, the Lib Dems would not be in the position they are in now.

3. The fee rise will not affect those currently at University. It will affect their younger siblings and possibly their children.

4. The fee hike will definitely dissuade those from poorer backgrounds from even attempting to go to uni. The government has admitted this!

5. The protest is made up of students, anarchists, tutors, little kids, mothers and fathers. It is not exclusively made up of "thugs" as many here would have people believe.

6. Top Shop is consistently attacked because the owner is a multi-billionaire scumbag who funnels money out of this country to avoid tax. And he does this while advising the government on cuts for the rest of us!

7. The government has stated that peaceful protest means nothing to them. They simply do not care how many people are angry about this and they will not listen.

8. This is a wider issue than simply student fees. As has been consistently seen, this is becoming more about the class war in this country. That is something we have been predicting here on this forum for the past two years. Anyone in a position of leadership or authority could potentially be attacked. Anyone with obscene wealth is open to assault. Icons of corruption and fraud will see their storefronts and businesses boycotted, protested and even physically damaged. That's not a warning or a threat, it's simply a Human response to the inequality in "austerity". The majority of this country will be asked to sacrifice so much, while those in authority and positions of wealth collude to bail out each other, avoid tax, live off the state, and basically continue their little elites party at the cost of the people.

Again, I'll happily debate this with people, but I don't appreciate it when posters lie, repeat the BBC propaganda as if it is gospel, or tarnish an entire section of our society with a label because they think it makes their argument stronger.

Originally posted by davespanners
Spray painting a statue of Churchill, throwing some stuff around and shouting things at Prince Charles is hardly anarchy now is it

Bull dozing a statue of Churchill, kicking in the doors of the houses of parliament and setting fire to Prince Charles, that would be anarchy

To be fair, they were trying to break into a part of the Treasury Building with a battering ram made of fencing.

But, again, that's Human emotion in response to being imprisoned illegally, and the wider reaction to inequality of the cuts. It's an argument against the state.

reply to post by snoopyuk


What choice do people have? Not enough of us make the effort for a peaceful protest to work, and besides, we have seen in the past how the police go under cover with the protesters and cause the violence, so if we did have a peaceful protest they would probably turn into a violent protest so that it gives them a way of controlling the situation.

Good on people standing up for their rights I say, especially with what happening in Britain, the govt here are making it hard for the common man to gain higher education, there plan will dumb down the masses and make uni's a place for the kids with a rich mum and dad.

Originally posted by aivlas
reply to post by snoopyuk

 

It will blow over in a few weeks.

Doubt it, the talking heads on the news are talking about a minimum of ten years to get the economy back to 2008 level, so to me that means ten years of radical left ructions all over Europe, which will in turn bring out the true rebellious side of ATS, if we have a free Internet at that point, vive le revolution

reply to post by Thepreye


I agree with you.

There are several economic voices in Europe warning of a continued currency crisis. Most are seeing that the fiscal changes governments are making are simply delaying a bigger problem.

Several governments are yet to reveal the true level of cuts.

The NUS here in the UK has vowed to continue protesting, and they'll join all the other unions when they take to the streets too.

As long as there are cuts in the pipeline, there will be protesters on the streets to argue against it.

Originally posted by Thepreye
Doubt it, the talking heads on the news are talking about a minimum of ten years to get the economy back to 2008 level, so to me that means ten years of radical left ructions all over Europe, which will in turn bring out the true rebellious side of ATS, if we have a free Internet at that point, vive le revolution

These ''radical left ructions'' are hardly much to write home about, are they ?

They've all abysmally failed, and only served to turn normal, decent people against any cause that they may have.

France and Britain have both introduced unpopular legislations in recent months, and but for some small rioting ( who's going to remember this in 10-20 years time ? ), and the legislation has still come in to force in both countries.

Maybe these groups should rub both their brain-cells together, and actually come up with a way that could stop governments introducing unpopular legislation ?

That is, of course, if they've actually got a cause, and aren't just rioting for the enjoyment of mindless destructive violence.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
As long as there are cuts in the pipeline, there will be protesters on the streets to argue against it.

Only when the cuts personally affect people.

This is why you'll never get large-scale protests, because so many people in the West are brought up in a culture where there's a complacent, ''I'm alright Jack'' mentality.

The recent protests being a perfect example; other than the rent-a-mob riff-raff who went along for the 'drama', then I doubt there were too many protesters who weren't students, future students, or people who worked in education.

while anarchy would be the best form of society if everyone would respect others freedom too, of course human nature will not allow this........at this time. Suddenly take away government and the next biggest bully on the block will step up and take their place. I do believe we could be weaned away from the need to be coddled and protected....whither we want it or not.....over time though. First get out of every other countries business, do away with victimless crimes, privitizing many government functions, etc........taxes slashed, government strong arming crippled, while we still maintain a high, if not even higher than now, standard of living.

We could continue to whittle away at government power at every level till we got the minimum needed to have a viable society.


And BTW...........I am well past 15.......a few times......lol