ANON Has Shut Down My Business--Paypal Related

Who the eff are you to tell me who I can do business with??? And who the eff are you to dare to interrupt my business? You don't like paypal fine don't do business with them that is your prerogative, but don't tell me I can't and damn sure don't try and physically prevent me or I will kick your smarmy ass if you were standing in front of a business I was trying to use! This is the same think just in cyber space. Once you do more then take your business elsewhere and try to physically prevent others from doing business with a company you have crossed over the line. You can protest a business but you have no right to physically stop others from doing business with them if they don't agree with you.

How am I telling anyone who they cant do business with? I am simply saying that when you make choices, those choices have consequences. you choose who you do business with, and if that business makes some questionable or unpopular moves, despite being a private business who can refuse business to anyone, there are going to be consequences. Key word, that. Consequence. There are always some for every choice. The fact of the matter is, you cannot stop these people from their attacks.

So by your logic, you would physically assault someone picketing a business who was getting in your way from entering said business? Or picketing your business for whatever reason? That's interesting. I wonder if you actually would, of if you are just saying that from the safety of your computer screen. Come on now, lets see you physically assault the next group of people picketing a business you're trying to get into. How about physically assaulting the TSA agents next time you go to fly to somewhere or other trying to get your business done (if in fact you ever do that..but lets say hypothetically, in the event you dont..). I mean, they are technically hindering you..what happens if for some reason or other, someone was trying to fly somewhere to get to a business meeting and the TSA agents just detained him for whatever reason (and if the tryanny continues we may even see them preventing people from flying for more than invalid reasons)? Should he then physically assault them, by your logic? They would be hindering him getting his business done. I return to the picketing idea...should business owners who are picketed assault the picketers? really?

as for change what have you done? I have been at the patriot game for 20+ years from all angles, from the courts, to presidential campaigns, to sovereign law, and what have you done? Sat here and rooted for a CIA construct that has a caused a bunch of dumb kids to mess with peoples lively hoods and taken food off their kids tables? Don't preach to me chump I'll get on my high horse anytime I feel the need when someone advocates taking food off my families table!

Then find food for them, you are not the first person to fall on hard luck. What have I done? well, I'm not as old as you but I sure as hell try to voice myself and do whatever I can..when I was in college I attempted to start several grass roots project with varying topics (which failed, because the average college goon, at least where I was, only cares about sex, sports, and drinking), I have written to my senators and house representatives on a slew of topics, engaged in public political debate to try and bring certain issues to light, etc etc...you cannot assume I have done nothing, which is exactly what youre doing because you are comparing yourself to me. You're basically claiming, at least indirectly, that you have done oh-so-much-more when in fact I believe its really only a matter of how much longer you have been on this planet. And even then I cannot be sure about what you have done, nor can you really be sure about what I have done. But really though, what exactly have you done that has made an impact, if you're going to assume my lack of impact here? Interesting, because you have no idea who I am and cannot logically assume I have made no impact merely on the fact that I'm posting on ATS.

It is weak minded to not know who your fighting and doing nothing but sit behind a computer and egg on the the enemy thinking he is on your side. Do fools really think they are going to bring down paypal and Visa etc. with an attack like this??? No this will just give them more excuse to try and control us further and the only people who get hurt are the millions like me... Sigh what a bunch of friggen idiots!

again, you are assuming that by me posting here on ATS that I am doing nothing but sitting behind a computer. Not true. While I cannot contribute to what is going on with the cyber war right now, I have the power of pen and paper (or online form, anyway). I was told each letter or note a congressman gets from a person is counted as 13,000 people because of the numbers of those too lazy or scared to speak up..while I dont know if that is true nor do I claim it to be, I can see how it would be or might be even remotely close to that number. I also have the power to physically speak up, spread the word, educate people, etc. I may be one person and my efforts may fall on deaf ears, but to do right by my own beliefs, I HAVE to try.

'you fools', well I have to speak up and make it clear I am not one of the people bringing down these websites. But I think the entire cause is just and while there have been some people who have raised some very key concerns in relation to the strategy Anon is taking, I would have to agree with those who are saying, what else do they have? you got a better idea, other than just having them stop completely so you can go blissfully on using a company that we all know (at least now) is caught up in the tyranny, too? Well a lot of us dont want it..if you want it, fine, keep using it..

Will it bring more control? as I said, maybe. But maybe not, if we stand and fight and stay the course, and we bring more and more people to wake up and see what is happening. but the fact of the matter is, Paypal made a huge mistake and those of you who are choosing by your own free will (remember, no one can tell you who to do business with!) to stay the course with them, are going to get hit. I will repeat again. It's a war. There will be casualties. Whether or not you are one of them is up to you.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by Alethea

 

And why is it you think you have the right to tell people who they can do business with and even prevent them from doing business with cyber attacks? I bet you think your a freedom fighter too... Sigh!

edit on 9-12-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

But apparently the government does

enjoy your smugface

And why is it you think you have the right to tell people who they can do business with and even prevent them from doing business with cyber attacks? I bet you think your a freedom fighter too... Sigh!

edit on 9-12-2010 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

you should be directing your anger at paypal because paypal effectively told customers they couldnt do business with wikileaks. they told wikileaks they couldnt do business with others. so, because limiting doing business in regards to wikileaks had no effect on you, you were ok with it? But now that it effects you, youre not? Hypocrite.

IMHO, this ANON group are no better then terrorists...
"Support Wikilinks or we'll attack you"
Its all fun and games til it effects YOUR livelyhood

reply to post by Xavialune

you should be directing your anger at paypal because paypal effectively told customers they couldnt do business with wikileaks. they told wikileaks they couldnt do business with others. so, because limiting doing business in regards to wikileaks had no effect on you, you were ok with it? But now that it effects you, youre not? Hypocrite.

Are you mentally challenged or did you get dropped on your head when young? The people pissed at paypal have a right to stop doing business with paypal period. They do not have a right to stop paypal from doing business with anyone else who choose to use paypal. They are now criminals they crossed over the line. They are no different then the idiot who gets fired from a job and then goes back and kills a bunch of innocent people that work for the company.

You idiots that think this is a great cause please name one thing WL has disclosed that has done a damn bit of good for freedom? Seriously? Most of it is already known and all of it has been insignificant. Yet we have a bunch of overzealous idiots taking food off of millions of peoples plates thinking they are for freedom and a bunch more idiots egging them on saying it is worth the sacrifice. And not one one of you has bothered to even ask yourselves if the WL releases are even real where is the proof?

You people don't know the first thing about freedom. What harm have I or paypal caused you or these people? it is my decision if I want to continue to use paypal after they dumped WL NOT YOURS OR ANYONE ELSES!

Are you mentally challenged or did you get dropped on your head when young? The people pissed at paypal have a right to stop doing business with paypal period. They do not have a right to stop paypal from doing business with anyone else who choose to use paypal. They are now criminals they crossed over the line. They are no different then the idiot who gets fired from a job and then goes back and kills a bunch of innocent people that work for the company.

Paypal did exactly what you are angry at Anon for doing. If anon are criminals, that would make Paypal and other businesses who have wrongfully prevented wikileaks from doing any business, criminals as well. They spout T&C violations, but its bullcrap. Paypal should not have the right to prevent wikileaks from recieving donations simply because they don't like them. Paypal is a business and shouldn't make decisions of T&C based on politics. We would all like that to be true, but we all know businesses do it every day. I will say YET AGAIN, in case it didn't sink in... consequences.

Now isn't it a little childish for you to go and insult me like that sweetheart? Are you getting a little angry at me now? Ha. Don't make me puke.

You idiots that think this is a great cause please name one thing WL has disclosed that has done a damn bit of good for freedom? Seriously? Most of it is already known and all of it has been insignificant. Yet we have a bunch of overzealous idiots taking food off of millions of peoples plates thinking they are for freedom and a bunch more idiots egging them on saying it is worth the sacrifice. And not one one of you has bothered to even ask yourselves if the WL releases are even real where is the proof?

Again with the insults. My, my, aren't you getting a little out of control here? Well let's see, wiki has only released what...maybe 500 or so cables. They've shed light on the US breaking international law spying on our own allies, for one. Just go through the bloody cables yourself, theres a lot of questionable stuff there already. It might not be the earth shattering news we expected, but hold on to your hat, its not even close to over yet. As for the cables being real, well..there is speculation of WL being a psy ops...but as I started in a previous post, while we may all be a little paranoid whether this is really the doing of the NWO or whatever the hell you want to call it, I really don't think they're all that clever. I think those who believe WL is an 'inside job' are giving the PTB too much credit.

You people don't know the first thing about freedom. What harm have I or paypal caused you or these people? it is my decision if I want to continue to use paypal after they dumped WL NOT YOURS OR ANYONE ELSES!

Paypal refused service on a purely political reason. They gave in to the tyrants, and now they will suffer. Those who choose to stay and support paypal will suffer too. yes, it is your decision. you dig your own hole. Newsflash, in the words of a previous poster, tuff luck. It's happening, and I really don't think there is anything anyone can do to stop it. Sorry.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Read your thread, I am sorry this is happening to you.

reply to post by hawkiye


I feel for both Paypal and its users, more so that are dependent on the income and flexibilities it brings to enhance commercial activities. And the DOS attacks had harmed many an honest commercial trader. I honestly and sincerely feel for them all.

But there comes a point when one must wake up to what is going on. There is a bigger picture at play and it lasts a far longer term than the value of the paper or money it brings.

Today, an innocent man was placed on the wanted list, labelled as a terrorists and treated as a criminal. He had been denied of a fair trial to determine crime if any and yet heaped for thrash for only merely telling the truth, as is his right and freedom within the sacred US Constitution and the UN Declaration of Universal Human rights.

Not only that, he had been denied of assistance in any form, including the services that you had been using.

Today, it is him. Tomorrow it may be you, if the authoritarians decides that you whimpers of taxations are a threat to them. Who gave them such powers???? That's where the bigger picture lays. The political infrastructure needs to be taken down and changed before true honest commerce can continue on for generaions, or many more will only be harmed.

We must look further beyond the length of noses if we are to live this life.

House slaves had been known to support their masters, for they get to be fed off the crumbs from the masters table. But field hands had to survive with hunger or scraps from the field including feeding off mice. This is not the way for mankind to live for ALL men are born equal. Take back your birthright and let not the few whom had grown obscenely rich off the backs of mankind determine how you should live.

In the meantime, find other ways to connect and continue commerce while the big boys play their games, a game that had riled up a fed-up humanity.

Good luck.

Freedom or security?

Which one comes with the most income for me please?

If you want change...if you want revolution....if you want people to take a stand....

it's going to have repercussions. It's going to require some sacrifice and there will probably be some collateral damage.

Paypal https has been up all night here. I've made several payments.

SeekerOfTruth..said much more eloquently than I could have put it. I'll leave it at that, I can't really top that one
2nd

reply to post by HomerinNC


Every organised group can be considered a terrorist.

Oh wait, you mean Al qaeda? It could be argued that their attacks were in retaliation to US ventures in the middle east, it is irrelevant. There is a difference. The Anon are attacking websites that are attempting to shut down or impede support for wikileaks and/or Julian Assange. This is not the simile you are looking for, as they are not enforcing their "belief" upon anyone, they are enforcing the capability of freedom of speech.

Using your logic you could say that the moratoriums during 'Nam were acts of terror as they brought fear to business owners the lack of workers at times.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Just got my old-school tankard out, poured some beer into it, and slammed it really hard on my big oak table.

Cheers.

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


The issue I have is theyre hurting others as collateral damage in their attacks, innocent people that could care less about this...
Sounds like terrorisim to me...

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Your FULL OF IT PAL ....... I take paypal and it is working fine .... the payments go through a different portal than main site .....

I call BS

I am a HUGE proponent of free speech. I am no friend of the Government nor of corporations. But, having said that...

An attack that effects the people more than it effects the target is ill advised. To be honest Pay Pal being down for a short period of time probably isn't the end of the world for anyone... But it surely could have harmed innocents. Imagine a young mother who was waiting for money to buy formula with that money, or the infant who could have been waiting to eat. Imagine a scared young woman, sitting at a bus station, waiting for funds to go through so she could find her way back home. Imagine a lot of things that could have happened. Because, in reality, something like these examples probably did occur today.

Somebody, somewhere, other than PayPals executives probably went through a bit of Hell today.

Anon did not. Anon self righteously sat back and "fought" from the shroud of anonymity and comfort. I cannot find it in myself to view this as heroic or noble at all. Warriors fight, Cowards attack from the shadows. Cowards carpet bomb without regard to collateral damage.

And I'd imagine that many here, defending anon, also condemn the US military for carpet bombing in our endless wars... Wars that we hope these cables will help us force an end to.

Why should we rationalize one groups misconceived actions when they match the tactics of the very entities that most of us stand against?

Anon... You want to take down Whitehouse.gov, or NSA.gov... or any other site that is a hard target - and I will be in these threads fighting and clawing in your defense. But take down businesses that effect the US population and I will not support you. Not for a moment. Not at all.

No matter how you cut it, slice it, or rationalize it. This was a bad call.

~Heff

reply to post by svpwizard


I agree, it was working fine for me.
No problems what so ever.
The total downtime to paypal has been very minimal so far 33 minutes or something like that, it shouldn't affect too much.
Not that I would be too bothered if it did get taken down.

reply to post by HomerinNC


That's the problem. If more people knew and gave a # about this, there wouldn't be so much collateral damage. This isn't the IRA, they aren't bombing pubs, they are pinging the absolute crap out of governmental and corporate websites that are trying to eliminate the chance of any truth to come out. I'd rather the infrastructure be damaged than live in a world that rains bull-#.

reply to post by Xavialune

Paypal did exactly what you are angry at Anon for doing. If anon are criminals, that would make Paypal and other businesses who have wrongfully prevented wikileaks from doing any business, criminals as well. They spout T&C violations, but its bullcrap. Paypal should not have the right to prevent wikileaks from recieving donations simply because they don't like them. Paypal is a business and shouldn't make decisions of T&C based on politics. We would all like that to be true, but we all know businesses do it every day. I will say YET AGAIN, in case it didn't sink in... consequences.

No no no! Paypal is a private business WL was using paypals services and equipment IOW thier private property at the graces of paypal the owner. Paypal has the right to stop Anyone they choose from using thier private property THEY DON'T NEED A REASON IT IS THEIR PROPERTY. Anon are messing with paypals private property and services preventing thier function they have no right to mess with other peoples property they do not own. Just like it you try to prevent me from using may car or my house you are the criminal because you don't have a right over my property period. This is the problem today with all the marxist indoctrination seems to be prevalent with the little wikileaks fan boys....

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


So they attack til they gets their way....
whats that sound like to you?

An eye for an eye will make us not see very well.