Many claim to be false christians

As long as they do that there will be no discussion with the real ones. False christians discuss and never get a point. THey leave tha door open wide. IT is to build hearT.

False christians.. Tha conspiracy, it is, they don't do it on purpose. njah

threadselfdestruct.


The problem is, they are a big problem

Hi there

Please point on the graph which ones the "real" christians are...then we know the rest are false...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/971f1cd3ee20.png[/atsimg]

thanks for clearing that up

I agree (as I often do) with SaturnFX, I'd like to see what a 'real' Christian is.

I'll even simplify it slightly with a few questions:

Does a real Christian see Jesus as merely a human, as a divine human, as a human that is both 100% human and 100% Yahweh, as a being that is 50% human and 50% Yahweh (or some other proportion, as I'm not going to bother writing out all possible proportions because that would be both silly and painful), or some other version I haven't bothered to mention?

Are real Christians trinitarian or unitarian?

Do real Christians observe Judaic law?

Do real Christians subscribe to the Pope as the successor of Peter and thus extend Petrine privilege to him?

Do real Christians give Mary, the mother of Jesus, special privilege?
(Topical for today): Do real Christians think Mary was born without original sin?
Do real Christians think Mary maintained her virginity throughout life? Was this because of a divine "instant regeneration of virginity" spell Yahweh placed upon her or was it simply because she abstained throughout life?

Do real Christians have Saints?

Are real Christians saved through "faith" or "works" or some combination of the two?

Do real Christians have to be "born again"?
If yes, what would being "born again" entail?

What place does baptism have in the life of real Christians?

Do real Christians interpret the Bible literally? Figuratively? Do they have a specific criteria for which parts are literal and which are not?
Which version of the Biblical canon do they accept?
Do they give equal credence to the Old Testament?

Are real Christians creationists?
If yes, are they old Earth or young Earth creationists?
If old Earth, is it a perpetual Earth that existed from the moment of creation or is it an Earth that was formed by Yahweh or natural processes later on in the existence of the universe?
If young Earth, exactly how young is the Earth for real Christians?

Which version of the 10 commandments do real Christians accept?

Which version of the death of Jesus do real Christians accept?

Do real Christians see one Gospel as more important than the others?
If so, which Gospel do real Christians hold up above the others?

What position do real Christians take on icons?

What opinion of women do real Christians have?
Do real Christians allow women to teach?

What is a real Christian's opinion of homosexuals?

What is a real Christian's opinion of Jewish individuals?

And can you please provide arguments and evidence (be it Biblical or otherwise) to support your position?


I'll have more questions once you take care of those.
...and here I thought I was going to simplify things...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I agree (as I often do) with SaturnFX, I'd like to see what a 'real' Christian is.

I'll even simplify it slightly with a few questions:

hmm...I put a single sentence and a picture...not sure it can be made simplier...but ok...

Does a real Christian see Jesus as merely a human, as a divine human, as a human that is both 100% human and 100% Yahweh, as a being that is 50% human and 50% Yahweh (or some other proportion, as I'm not going to bother writing out all possible proportions because that would be both silly and painful), or some other version I haven't bothered to mention?

Are real Christians trinitarian or unitarian?

Do real Christians observe Judaic law?

Do real Christians
-snip mega wall of text
...

Your use of the word "simplify" is different than mine

kidding, but I would like to see a christian actually respond to your post, sentence by sentence...but you know what will happen.
a "true christian" will simply say they only have to believe in Christ and love everyone..and God...then go off to annoy some other thread.
That person in turn will be agreed upon by every other christian that doesn't want to answer questions that confuse them.

Then they will of course go back to their trolling around and calling athiests evil...

cause...you know...we are

I think what we really like to know is if those people from the chaldean council and early christianity knew about the big " business" that man made religions are.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
you know what will happen.
a "true christian" will simply say they only have to believe in Christ and love everyone..and God...then go off to annoy some other thread.

Okay, I'm said "true Christian". I would answer "yes" to most of Madness' questions. A true Christian follows Christ's teachings and lives their life by that, and the remainder is doctrinal differences that man has imposed on God, so I don't think that they are all that important.

But sorry to be annoying you in this and other threads.

That person in turn will be agreed upon by every other christian that doesn't want to answer questions that confuse them.

The questions don't confuse me, though the importance that people (both believers and disbelievers) put in them does. I'm an Arminian, so my view of grace, salvation and free will is much different than those that a Calvinist holds is. But I fail to see the import, beyond the intellectual exercise (which I rather enjoy) of trying to determine which is closer to the truth, though neither likely gets there. If I'm right with God, I'm right with God, and the mechanics of that theology don't change it.

Then they will of course go back to their trolling around and calling athiests evil...

I, for one, have not, and never will, call atheists evil.

Some people like to make things so complicated....

There is no mystical hard to define labyrinth one needs to navigate in order to follow Christ's teachings and be saved. Just accept him as your savior, repent and turn from sin. It's the intent and striving to be better that counts.

We already know we are not worthy of salvation or probably the title of Christian. We are sinners just like everyone else. So please consider me a "fake Christian" or whatever label you which to pin to my lapel and I will go with faith and the knowledge that I am saved by his grace.

Originally posted by kinglizard
So please consider me a "fake Christian" or whatever label you which to pin to my lapel and I will go with faith and the knowledge that I am saved by his grace.

Of all the people who call themselves Christian here at ATS, YOU are the one person who I have no doubts about. Speaking as a non-Christian, I would say that you, sir, more than any I've met, are no fake.

As for those fake Christians, they're easy to expose. They rant and rave, swear at just about anyone that questions their ideas and are ready to expunge any other religion off the face of this planet at the drop of a bible. They hate, they love violence, enjoy watching suffering in others all the while saying that Jesus would approve.

Those aren't Christians, they're posers using the religion for their own vile gratification.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I agree (as I often do) with SaturnFX, I'd like to see what a 'real' Christian is.

I'll even simplify it slightly with a few questions:

Does a real Christian see Jesus as merely a human, as a divine human, as a human that is both 100% human and 100% Yahweh, as a being that is 50% human and 50% Yahweh (or some other proportion, as I'm not going to bother writing out all possible proportions because that would be both silly and painful), or some other version I haven't bothered to mention?

Jesus was a Earth vessel for God. He is a part of God but has his own thoughts and feelings. This goes beyond proportions and divisions. Jesus was the human manifest for God's word. He delivered it to us and it is up to us to do with it what we can.

Of course, no one truly successful. We are all born with urges and ignorance. We grow up through learning from past experiences. So, no human is truly pure from birth that is why people ask God to forgive their sins.

Are real Christians trinitarian or unitarian?

Real Christians are human.

Do real Christians observe Judaic law?

Some. We must change with the times to suit society.

Do real Christians subscribe to the Pope as the successor of Peter and thus extend Petrine privilege to him?

No man has authority over another in this world. Real Christians obey the word of God. But since we have those urges our two mains laws are Love God and Love your neighbor. The rest of the rules can branch out through those 2.

Do real Christians give Mary, the mother of Jesus, special privilege?
(Topical for today): Do real Christians think Mary was born without original sin?
Do real Christians think Mary maintained her virginity throughout life? Was this because of a divine "instant regeneration of virginity" spell Yahweh placed upon her or was it simply because she abstained throughout life?

Mary has no special privilege. She was born like the rest of us. I don't know Mary's history personally so I couldn't elaborate more.

Do real Christians have Saints?

We have saints but they hold no power over us. We don't pray to them, some might, but I pray directly to Jesus and God.

Are real Christians saved through "faith" or "works" or some combination of the two?

Combination.

Do real Christians have to be "born again"?
If yes, what would being "born again" entail?

No. Just love your God and your neighbor.

What place does baptism have in the life of real Christians?

Baptism holds no power over me. I think baptism is just saying you believe in Jesus, thus cleansing your soul. But than there is having to follow the 2 main laws and the laws that branch out associated with them. We fall way short of perfection and God knows that. All we can do is try our best to stay pure.

Do real Christians interpret the Bible literally? Figuratively? Do they have a specific criteria for which parts are literal and which are not?
Which version of the Biblical canon do they accept?
Do they give equal credence to the Old Testament?

Laws that suit our life hold much power over ones that Atheists use to argue about. For instance, atheists always bring up how the old testament says to stone your daughters, or slavery, or etc. But much of the Christians don't practice that today. You are comparing 2,000 year old laws to our society today. They were more primitive and barbaric back than. We were all barbaric until about 100 years ago when society changed rapidly.

So the old testament has some laws that apply in today's society and some that don't. If it is illegal in society today than it hold no credence over us.

Are real Christians creationists?

Some. Personally, I don't believe in the creation story so this doesn't apply to me.

Which version of the 10 commandments do real Christians accept?

All of them. Those laws can be branched out through Love your God and Love your neighbor. Everyone is considered your neighbor.

Which version of the death of Jesus do real Christians accept?

Elaborate please.

Do real Christians see one Gospel as more important than the others?
If so, which Gospel do real Christians hold up above the others?

No gospel is more important than another. I don't follow the Bible fully, only the important teachings.

What position do real Christians take on icons?

Graven images = sin. We don't know what Jesus looked like so why worship an image that you aren't accurately sure even resembles Jesus?

What opinion of women do real Christians have?
Do real Christians allow women to teach?

Equality.

What is a real Christian's opinion of homosexuals?

Not my place to judge. Don't sexually touch me and we're cool.

What is a real Christian's opinion of Jewish individuals?

They're humans, I think.

And can you please provide arguments and evidence (be it Biblical or otherwise) to support your position?

No.

I'll have more questions once you take care of those.
...and here I thought I was going to simplify things...

Keep em coming.

reply to post by adjensen


...stop being so damn reasonable!

Of course, I do have a question for you. Since your personal doctrinal views have been more or less established (those that don't know what an Arminian is can give this Wiki page on the subject some love), what would you say about those who disagree with your doctrinal views?

Misguided? Salvation in jeopardy? Other?

I, for one, have not, and never will, call atheists evil.

That's because you're a reasonable person. Unfortunately, not all of the Christians here are reasonable people.

reply to post by kinglizard

Originally posted by kinglizard
Some people like to make things so complicated....

As your answers to this question are going to make things more complicated.

There is no mystical hard to define labyrinth one needs to navigate in order to follow Christ's teachings

Ok...can you define what they are? I see dozens of versions of them whenever I look into them. So what are these teachings and what is the basis for you saying they are the correct ones?

and be saved.

A wild doctrinal message appears!

Being 'saved' is something that appears in specific doctrinal incarnations of Christianity and has a traceable lineage within the Christian community.

It is not something found throughout all of Christianity.

Just accept him as your savior,

Again, more complications!

Is he my savior because he's Yahweh? Because he died on the cross?

Why and how is he my savior?

repent

Oh crap, I'm commenting on just one word!

Ok, this one word is also a point of contention in Christianity. Repenting takes so many different forms that it's not even funny.

and turn from sin.

Ok, please give me a grounded definition of 'sin' to work from.

It's the intent and striving to be better that counts.

Well, I have a good intent and I strive to be better...but I don't have all that Jesus stuff.
Does that mean I'm a Christian?

We already know we are not worthy of salvation or probably the title of Christian.

Again, points of contention abound.

Knowledge of salvation, worthiness of salvation, being titled as Christians (some think you have to handle venomous snakes to be titled a Christian).

So saying "We already know..." shows your personal doctrinal bias.

We are sinners just like everyone else.

I think you hit one of the least contended points in Christianity there.

So please consider me a "fake Christian" or whatever label you which to pin to my lapel and I will go with faith and the knowledge that I am saved by his grace.

So salvation is through the grace of god?
Another point of contention!

KL, you're one of the sort that would have to address my point. You have so many doctrinal ideas embedded in even the simplest of statements that I can more or less guess your answers and the school of thought that they came from, but I'd still like to see them declared.



Why has nobody bothered to address my questions?

Man I would love to get into this in more depth but time doesn't permit. I would like to through in my 2 cents worth. I guess I wouldn't be called a "traditional christian" by christians which is fine by me lol. I have studied the Bible for over 20 yrs now and the more I know the more I realize that the anti-christ may very well be the church. Now don't get me wrong I am not talking about people who try and live by the law of loving God first and loving others as we love ourselves. I am talking about religion, the church. I don't believe that homosexuality is wrong at all in fact I believe that God's original intention was for homosexuals to be God's priests. If you read up about eunuchs in the bible they were used as temple guards and the apostle Paul talked about being a eunuch. They were not castrated men they were men that had no interest in sex with women. I also believe that if you go back and read Gen you will see that were created in His image, after His likeness.Gen 1:26-27. "...male and female He created them. An interesting note as well, most believe that when Adam and Eve sinned they were embarrased because they were naked. I don't think so, I believe when they disobeyed God they lost the glory of God and were spiritually naked or without covering of God. Gen 3:21 says that God made garments of skin. If you go back and read the original language it tunics of skin. A tunic can mean clothing but that doesnt make sense. Tunic also refers to membrane "an enveloping or covering membrane or layer of body tissue. Now if this is the case(and I believe that it is) it changes a lot of our definitions of sin does it not? The law in the OT was given to keep the Israelites pure from contamination of the pure bloodline of God. Which is why Noah and his family were saved during the flood. Gen 6 talks about the bloodline being comprised by the sons of God who were the fallen ones interbreeding with the daughters of men. The OT laws were kinda weird but in this context make more sense. The law said you couldnt plant 2 differeent crops in the same field, you couldn't have a garment made of 2 different fabrics. Only women could be caught in adultery and thus the law said they had to be stoned. Not out of punishment only but to ensure the bloodline remained intact. The laws weren't instituted for punishment or control but because women could have children which wouldn't be pure. Sounds bad I know. But lets continue down the rabbit hole. The bloodline had to be pure so that God could send Jesus to redeem us and restore us to a relationship with him that was destroyed in the garden of eden. Now lets translate that to the new testament. I believe the OT is the physical to what the NT is spiritually. Now we are not supposed to contaminate ourselves with the world and by the world I mean the spirit of every man for themselves, kill or be killed and only the strong survive etc. So getting back to Gen we were clothed in skin and banished to earth, and God immediately starts the program to redeem us to what we were intened to be from the start, His kids. Peter wasn't the head of the church it was his revelation of who Jesus was that was the cornerstone of the church. When Jesus dies the bible says in matt 27:50-51, the veil in the temple was torn in 2. The veil represented the spot where only the priests could go and hear from God but now we can go before God ourselves and our teacher is the Holy Spirit. Yes we have teachers and prophets and evangelists and they are good to hear things and learn things but we need to always weigh things by the word of God. I firmly believe that the people who are destined to be separated from God are those who are telling others they're going to hell. Hatred and bigotry have no part in God's kingdom. I believe that in these times God is truly opening the eyes of His children,those who seek truth with an open mind. Be exactly who God made you to be, and do you want to know how God made you to be just express whats already inside you. Jesus didn;t come back to ruin the party He came back to get the party started.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Of course, I do have a question for you. Since your personal doctrinal views have been more or less established (those that don't know what an Arminian is can give this Wiki page on the subject some love), what would you say about those who disagree with your doctrinal views?

Good grief, my friend, I often disagree with my own doctrinal views! lol

Misguided? Salvation in jeopardy? Other?

I think that the only thing that can put salvation in jeopardy is not being reconciled to God in life (though, as we've talked about before, I hold out hope for something along the lines of purgatory for possible reconciliation after death.)

Look at it this way. In the Bible, Jesus is asked directly by someone "what must I do to attain eternal life?" If we think about that, the "eternal life" is part and parcel with "being right with God." It's a goal, of course, but it's a goal within the larger scope of having done right by God. If I had to claim only one ambition for myself, it would be to hear God say, on my death, "Good job, Dale, you did well," because it reflects how I treated others, how I treated myself, how I was viewed by others, and so on.

In answer to that question that runs a bit deeper than it seems, Christ responded that loving God and loving your neighbour as yourself was all that you need to do. That's it. The querier got clarification, to determine that "neighbour" refers to everyone else, not just the guy up the street, or someone that you personally like or agree with, but it's still maddeningly simple.

If one has no interest in diving deeper, stop there -- that's all that you need to know. Believe in Christ, trust in God, and rely on them to help you make the world a better place, even when said world is kicking you around, and you're not only being a good member of humanity, you're getting yourself right with God.

But where is communion in that? Where is baptism? The trinity? Free will versus pre-determinism? One can argue that they, along with a myriad of other issues, are buried in either "love God" or "love everyone", but I'm not so sure about that. If baptism is required for salvation, why didn't Christ say so? If the Eucharist requires wine, rather than the grape juice that my Methodist church uses, why isn't it explicitly laid out for the fellow who asked "what must I do to attain eternal life?"

At my core, I am a theologian, because at my core, I'm a scientist. I was born of an engineer and an English teacher and have the worst traits of each :-) But I studied science at university and study God and faith in much the same way. As a theologian, I can relish in, and argue for or against any number of things that are "critical" for one reason or another. But I always come back to "does it really matter?" and my conclusion is "not according to Christ, it doesn't."

So, in the end, no, I don't believe those who are not Arminians, or Methodists, or Methodist-Catholics are misguided or damned. If you follow Christ's two commandments and accept his salvation, the rest of it just doesn't seem to be anything other than theological answers to questions that probably didn't need to be asked, or doctrinal differences that someone once thought were important, but few today would even begin to rationally explain.

I will tell you who I believe that the "false Christians" are -- those who go to church every Sunday, think that they've done their duty and go back to six days of living with God and their fellow men the furthest things from their minds. If one does not strive to make God and service to others of primary importance in their lives, they have missed that simple answer to "what must I do to attain eternal life?"

My answers are as follows:

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I agree (as I often do) with SaturnFX, I'd like to see what a 'real' Christian is.

I'll even simplify it slightly with a few questions:

Does a real Christian see Jesus as merely a human, as a divine human, as a human that is both 100% human and 100% Yahweh, as a being that is 50% human and 50% Yahweh (or some other proportion, as I'm not going to bother writing out all possible proportions because that would be both silly and painful), or some other version I haven't bothered to mention?
1. Fully divine, fully human.

Are real Christians trinitarian or unitarian?
2. God is one all-pervading being. He is omnipotent and omniscient, but also capable of expressing Himself physically (Jesus) and spiritually (Holy Spirit).

Do real Christians observe Judaic law?
3. Only insomuch as the one which Jesus said summed up The Law and the prophets, "Do unto others whatever you would like them to do to you."

Do real Christians subscribe to the Pope as the successor of Peter and thus extend Petrine privilege to him?
4. To my knowledge, Peter was never the Pope of Rome which negates the Pope being his successor. As far as "Petrine privilege," I am not aware of anyone having the authority of absolution other than Jesus.


Do real Christians give Mary, the mother of Jesus, special privilege?
5. Special privilege? Like praying to Mary? No. However, Mary is extremely honored as the mother of Jesus.

Do real Christians think Mary was born without original sin?
6. The only human being that never sinned is Jesus.

Do real Christians think Mary maintained her virginity throughout life?
7. No. We are told that Jesus had brothers, and most likely also had sisters as well.

Was this because of a divine "instant regeneration of virginity" spell Yahweh placed upon her or was it simply because she abstained throughout life?
8. God doesn't place "spells" on people. There is no reason to think that Mary abstained from sexual intimacy with her husband. Regardless, speculating on the sexual prowess of the mother of God is pointless and diversionary.

Do real Christians have Saints?
9. In the Bible, "Saints" merely translates as "God's people"

Are real Christians saved through "faith" or "works" or some combination of the two?
10. Salvation is by faith. You either believe it is possible (exhibiting faith), or you don't (not exhibiting faith). The natural result of your faith is the way you live your life ("works"). That said, faith will inevitably express itself through your works.

Do real Christians have to be "born again"?
11. Yes.

If yes, what would being "born again" entail?
12. Basically is it the spiritual awakening, if you will, by the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God). In Genesis 2:17 God warns that in eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, one would die. When Adam & Eve did eat of the tree (or whatever it was), we know that they did not physically die. God meant that they would die spiritually once becoming privy to evil, giving it access to their spirits and thus susceptible to and tormented by perpetual temptation. The result of this was spiritual separation from God (akin to a spiritual death).


What place does baptism have in the life of real Christians?
13. It's place is symbolic and considered a public affirmation of your belief in salvation through Jesus Christ.

Do real Christians interpret the Bible literally?
14. Yes.
Figuratively?
15. Yes.
Do they have a specific criteria for which parts are literal and which are not?
16. Yes.

Which version of the Biblical canon do they accept?
17. Well, there are so many translations available, I think if you put them all together then they all get the point accross pretty cohesively.

Do they give equal credence to the Old Testament?
18. Yes.

Are real Christians creationists?
19. Yes.

If yes, are they old Earth or young Earth creationists?
20. Personally, I wasn't there when it happened so I don't presume to know. I could care less exactly how old the Earth is and see it as a meaningless point of contention.

If old Earth, is it a perpetual Earth that existed from the moment of creation or is it an Earth that was formed by Yahweh or natural processes later on in the existence of the universe?
21. The moment of creation? There are many moments of creation: light, heavens, stars, moon, etc. Earth was created in the succession of those moments.


If young Earth, exactly how young is the Earth for real Christians?
22. See number 20

Which version of the 10 commandments do real Christians accept?
23. See Matthew 22:36-40 and 19:16-19. Chapter 19, verses 16 through 19 basically sum up my answer to number 3

Which version of the death of Jesus do real Christians accept?
24. Which version? I am only aware of one version. Jesus was crucified.

Do real Christians see one Gospel as more important than the others?
25. No. They are all equally relative, albeit from different perspectives.

If so, which Gospel do real Christians hold up above the others?
26. None

What position do real Christians take on icons?
27. Icons? Like idols? Like, idolizing someone or an object type idol? We don't worship statues.

What opinion of women do real Christians have?
28. I have no idea what you are referring to. Seriously, like I don't even know what to do with that.

Do real Christians allow women to teach?
29. Yes

What is a real Christian's opinion of homosexuals?
30. I try not to have an "opinion" of anyone, lest I find myself in the act of judging them. In which case, I have no business judging anyone, which is also beside the fact that it is not our place to judge anyway. Having said that, I have very close friends who are gay who have been extremely candid in sharing with me that their sexuality is something that they feel is a spiritual struggle for them. One of them even used the word "torment." These people are my friends and I have no "opinion" of them other than to love them and treat them as such.

What is a real Christian's opinion of Jewish individuals?
31. They are human beings who live on earth and practice the Jewish faith. Much like myself, except I practice the Christian faith.

And can you please provide arguments and evidence (be it Biblical or otherwise) to support your position?
31b. I don't have that kind of time on my hands right now. Besides, if you are truly interested in the validity of my answers because you are seeking Truth as opposed to seeking argument for argument's sake, they would be easily found in a Bible concordance.

I'll have more questions once you take care of those.
32. I can't promise I can answer them, I have a lot of my own theological questions that I have yet to find answers to. Plus, I probably won't have time to because I'm going out of town in the morning

...and here I thought I was going to simplify things...

I have found that in most cases, things are usually as simple as you make them.

The most number of false Christians occur at Christmastime, the biggest Christian holiday of the year.

For myself, who is an atheist, it's sickening that people who renounce Christianity all year then go out and join the commercialism free for all that Christmas has become.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I would like to see a christian actually respond to your post, sentence by sentence...but you know what will happen.
a "true christian" will simply say they only have to believe in Christ and love everyone..and God...then go off to annoy some other thread.
That person in turn will be agreed upon by every other christian that doesn't want to answer questions that confuse them.

Then they will of course go back to their trolling around and calling athiests evil...

cause...you know...we are

You have your response.
I don't have to believe in Christ, I choose to.
I don't love everyone, but I try to. Usually I fail miserably, especially if I'm really PMSing or something.
If I have something to say, then I make a post. If my post happens to annoy someone, then don't read it &/or use the "ignore" feature.
I can't necessarily think of any questions, per se, that confuse me. However, there are countless questions that I can think of that, I personally, don't have the answer to.
I don't troll threads and I don't think athiests are evil, nor have I ever call one such.

With nearly 20 saviors proclaiming virgin births, guided by a star from the east, visited by three wise men, crucified for the sins of mankind, all sons of god, resurrected on the third day...et cetera........

Then there's the 30,000 or so denominations of the protestant branch of christianity....if the differences between them don't matter to god, then why do they matter enough to humans to split churches?

When you speak of a "false" christian, it bears about as much sense as a "false" hindu, or "false" buddhist.

As for the fakeness of christians....if a million people are praying for world peace (as I'm sure there are) and world peace never comes, is it a sign of a fake christian or maybe a fake god?
I'm feeling the urge to attack here, so the post ends now.

Originally posted by sykickvision

As for the fakeness of christians....if a million people are praying for world peace (as I'm sure there are) and world peace never comes, is it a sign of a fake christian or maybe a fake god?
I'm feeling the urge to attack here, so the post ends now.

There is a difference between asking for world peace and making it happen. What good is it to ask for world peace if you aren't even going to make a move to try and make it happen? That is like scientists asking for a cure for cancer without the hard work.

It won't happen unless people start doing it.

Originally posted by sykickvision
With nearly 20 saviors proclaiming virgin births, guided by a star from the east, visited by three wise men, crucified for the sins of mankind, all sons of god, resurrected on the third day...et cetera........

I guess that you missed my response to this bit on nonsense, which you posted in another thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What you wrote here is untrue, unsupported by credible evidence, and needlessly inflammatory.

Try arguing from sense and reason, rather than prejudiced, ignorant and debunked untruths, if you wish to contribute to a reasonable discussion. If you don't like Christianity or don't want to believe it, there is no reason to dredge up that sort of thing, simply don't like it or don't believe it -- no one is going to force you to, but you're never going to convince a believer that they should give up their faith in the face of a handful of lies.

reply to post by adjensen


Oops! My bad! I stand corrected - thank you for the correction. Sincerely begging everyone's pardon as I remove the egg from my face. I was wrong.

reply to post by Equinox99

Originally posted by Equinox99
Jesus was a Earth vessel for God. He is a part of God but has his own thoughts and feelings. This goes beyond proportions and divisions. Jesus was the human manifest for God's word. He delivered it to us and it is up to us to do with it what we can.

Interesting enough. Now can I hear your justifications?

Of course, no one truly successful. We are all born with urges and ignorance. We grow up through learning from past experiences. So, no human is truly pure from birth that is why people ask God to forgive their sins.

Does this include Jesus?

Are real Christians trinitarian or unitarian?

Real Christians are human.

Um...that doesn't really answer my question. Do real Christians believe in trinitarianism or unitarianism?

Do real Christians observe Judaic law?

Some. We must change with the times to suit society.

Ok, so for you it's a point of non-contention, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme.
Or am I misunderstanding you?

Now can you please back this position up?

Do real Christians subscribe to the Pope as the successor of Peter and thus extend Petrine privilege to him?

No man has authority over another in this world.


What about Petrine privilege?

Real Christians obey the word of God.

Being....? The Bible?

But since we have those urges our two mains laws are Love God and Love your neighbor. The rest of the rules can branch out through those 2.

What?
How does honoring parents branch of from that?

Mary has no special privilege. She was born like the rest of us. I don't know Mary's history personally so I couldn't elaborate more.

Would you care to do a bit of research? Not saying that snarkily, I'd just like to hear what you have to say after some study of her history.

We have saints but they hold no power over us. We don't pray to them, some might, but I pray directly to Jesus and God.

Ok, can you please provide some sort of justification or evidence?

Combination.

Again, please provide some evidence.

No. Just love your God and your neighbor.

Alright, more elaboration, justification please.
What if I just love my neighbor?

Baptism holds no power over me. I think baptism is just saying you believe in Jesus, thus cleansing your soul. But than there is having to follow the 2 main laws and the laws that branch out associated with them. We fall way short of perfection and God knows that. All we can do is try our best to stay pure.

Once more, more elaboration, justification.

Laws that suit our life hold much power over ones that Atheists use to argue about. For instance, atheists always bring up how the old testament says to stone your daughters, or slavery, or etc.

The New Testament mentions slavery too. And I only mention those to Biblical literalists and those who claim the Bible is inerrant.

But much of the Christians don't practice that today. You are comparing 2,000 year old laws to our society today. They were more primitive and barbaric back than. We were all barbaric until about 100 years ago when society changed rapidly.

I agree.
So I take it that you're not a literalist?

So the old testament has some laws that apply in today's society and some that don't. If it is illegal in society today than it hold no credence over us.

Alright, an errant Bible it is. At least when it comes to law.

Are real Christians creationists?

Some. Personally, I don't believe in the creation story so this doesn't apply to me.

So...creationism doesn't matter. Alright, good to know.

Which version of the 10 commandments do real Christians accept?

All of them. Those laws can be branched out through Love your God and Love your neighbor. Everyone is considered your neighbor.

Huh? Um...again, care to back this one up?

Which version of the death of Jesus do real Christians accept?

Elaborate please.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.
4 different stories of the life and death of Jesus.
Not horribly different, but some have key differences.

Do real Christians see one Gospel as more important than the others?
If so, which Gospel do real Christians hold up above the others?

No gospel is more important than another. I don't follow the Bible fully, only the important teachings.

Ok.
Which teachings would be the important ones?
...would they be love God/your neighbor?

What position do real Christians take on icons?

Graven images = sin. We don't know what Jesus looked like so why worship an image that you aren't accurately sure even resembles Jesus?

It helps the less creatively minded people?

I dunno, I was just asking because it was a major point of contention that caused a schism.

What opinion of women do real Christians have?
Do real Christians allow women to teach?

Equality.

So this is yet another point where you disagree with the Bible.

What is a real Christian's opinion of homosexuals?

Not my place to judge. Don't sexually touch me and we're cool.

Good standard.

What is a real Christian's opinion of Jewish individuals?

They're humans, I think.

So do I.

And can you please provide arguments and evidence (be it Biblical or otherwise) to support your position?

No.

Why not? A bunch of random statements of belief really don't help with the distinction between real and false.


Also, sorry for the tardy reply, this is a bit of a messy thread and I've been busy.