Texas Woman Jailed for Overdue Library Books

reply to post by abecedarian


No proto is going to call the county tomorrow and speak to the prosecutor attorney and explain to him about the law, and see that he issues a check for a 1,000.00 dollars to the woman to compensate her for her kidnapping and unconstitutional detention resulting from their illegal continuous criminal enterprise.

The State must pay a penalty for the crimes it committed here, and must relinquish it's profit from the endeavor as well as an additional sum for the woman's embarssment, degredation and harassment, on par with her income station in life.

This is fair. Proto believes the state profited 700.00 dollars, and that the woman likely takes home about 300.00 a week.

So she is to be compensated to the amount of the State's theft, and one weeks wages.

This is my ruling on the matter, and once carried through, I shall be satisfied that justice has been served.

This particular crime by the state offends me, and I shall make sure the State knows this and corrects this with all due speed.

I love eating state's attorneys for breakfast!

It's a healthy start to the day!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Don't forgot to post details of the exchange, emails, links to the article on the local news- WSAV, etc.

reply to post by abecedarian


Actually there will be no such things to be had.

The State's Attorney will not agree to having anything on the record, that becomes a direct admission of guilt.

So you actually understand what I will be doing, is I will accuse him of using the Interstate Commerce Clause to violate her Constitutional Rights, and that she was contracted into the Corporate Government's Codes which is just contract law, through non-disclosure.

When you fill out the census you are actually agreeing to be a full time on call employee of the Department of Commerce and the Congress has unlimited ability to regulate interstate commerce. This is how they have gotten around the Constitution through using contract law, through non-disclosure implements.

I will tell him that I plan to contact the woman, and travel to his jurisdiction and expose the State's tactics in an open court on the Public Record, and force the judge to declare what kind of court it is on the record (It's actually a religious court, using admirality law) and make everyone involved as an officer of the court declare all oaths they have taken and to whom and disclose their full and respective powers, and will then outline a case in open course showing how they have decieved the woman through non-disclosure, and conspired for profit, to make her a fictitious corporation controlled and regulated through commerce laws, thus denying her, her constitutional standing.

I will tell him point blank, he has two choices, risk me in an open courtroom where the proceedings will be recorded or pay the woman compensation, which I will in fact inform him I am ordering him to do, as a beneficiary of the living will which is the constitution, by appointing him my trustee and executor of it, as an employee of the government set up by it.

He will agree to do all this to get me to go away, and I will agree to not disclose the agreement in exchange for him doing as I order.

When you have a set, you actually do things like this.

It's fun not being a slave! Really, try it, you might like it.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

failed to show up in court

...what part of that did you fail to understand?

Yeah but there is no indication she agreed to appear or even knew about it.. only that "library officials" make "multiple requests" before pursuing charges.

Signing a citation is a "promise to appear", being served a subpoena is a "court order" to appear... ignoring a request that may or may not have been received is a crime?.. lol

That's a tad bit proto-fascist for my taste.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree the law is the law. If they say you need to go and dont they have every right to throw you in jail for failure to appear. I agree with the charges.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I will tell him point blank, he has two choices, risk me in an open courtroom where the proceedings will be recorded or pay the woman compensation, which I will in fact inform him I am ordering him to do, as a beneficiary of the living will which is the constitution, by appointing him my trustee and executor of it, as an employee of the government set up by it. He will agree to do all this to get me to go away, and I will agree to not disclose the agreement in exchange for him doing as I order. When you have a set, you actually do things like this.

You ain't from Texas, it's quite obvious. Good luck with your endeavor. If this is all it takes to make the judicial system mind, why have you not already brought the system to it's knees? It sounds like such a simple thing to do, as you tell it. IF you really had a set, you would disclose this agreement, and save countless other corporate victims such harsh criminal punishment. Yes, you would have to break your word, but just think of all the good that would come from it.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Yeah but there is no indication she agreed to appear or even knew about it.. only that "library officials" make "multiple requests" before pursuing charges.
...

You didn't read the article linked from the AOL site did you?

Something is wrong with the system when something like this happens. One can understand that her decision not to attend court was wrong, but the reason for her being taken to court is madness. There are far more important issues for Law Enforcement Officers to be concerned with than overdue library books...

Originally posted by schuyler


If I came to your house and we agreed that I would borrow $200 worth of books from you for three weeks, and I simply did not return them, what would you do? Would you just let that go?

My grandmother always said "neither a borrower nor a lender be." She also said "never loan anything that you cannot afford to lose." I have loaned books personally that were never returned. So now, I do not loan anything, but I will give it. And when I give something like a book, I say "pass it on when you're done with it".

The real sad part about the story of these unreturned books is that people would allow material possession to become more important than the feelings and tragedy of another human being. Man's inhumanity to man.

As a library member myself, I will have to say that the woman is question is wrong. Sorry OP, but you cannot justify the woman not taking responsibility for books that were loaned to her, thus not her property and needed to be returned. Regardless of whether or not her house burned down or if her dog ate the books, it was still her responsibility.

Now, where I live and the libraries that I frequent, if for whatever reason I am not able to return a book, I have to pay a due fine. It's as simple as that. And when I joined the library I was well aware of that, if I was not happy with that stipulation then I should have said no thank you to being a member of the library.

OP, it appears as if you think that the crime does not fit the punishment and that is what your real gripe is with the story? Well, the real crime is that the woman failed to appear in court DUE to outstanding fines, therefore she was arrested.

SO, seeing as you are not pleased with a woman being arrested for failing to appear in court on charges of outstanding fines, what do you suppose is done with EVERYONE (like the woman herself) who has outstanding fines and then does not show up in court?

Originally posted by Becoming
She owes over 200 dollars worth of late fees, thats a lot of books.

You take 200 dollars worth of anything and you will get in trouble over it. Add on top that she doesn't show up for a court apperance and the only outcome is jail.

And that's why you have the greatest jail population in the world. Because people like you never question why the police are going after some poor woman with a few overdue library books, while the bankers and politicians rob you blind of trillions and not a finger is raised against them. Honestly I felt sorry for the American people to begin with, but now with thinking such as yours becoming the norm, I'm coming to the conclusion you deserve to see your country come apart at the seams before you.

She wasn't jailed for having overdue books, she was jailed for not showing up to court. I'm sure that if she went, she could have explained what happened to the books, and at most maybe be made to cover their costs.
Skipping court isn't acceptable or responsible.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Maybe she should've returned the books to their proper location.

We know she didn't show up for court. I personally think she's not the brightest bulb, but I'd still rather defend a dumbass than a bully.

The troubling aspect is the lack of understanding shown here about the prison system. We need to be careful what we as a society allow corporations to profit from.

It's not a news flash that corporations exist for one reason only - to make a profit. This drive can lead to healthy trends in the marketplace if the product is right.

But what if the product detracts from our quality of life? The drive is then considered counterproductive to society, and that product/service belongs in the commons, where it is not for profit.

We used to have standards about what belonged in our commons. Now it's all up for grabs.

Originally posted by Jane_Doe1
SO, seeing as you are not pleased with a woman being arrested for failing to appear in court on charges of outstanding fines, what do you suppose is done with EVERYONE (like the woman herself) who has outstanding fines and then does not show up in court?

Well, it's difficult to speculate because none of us even have the most basic details of this case. Incarceration, in my opinion, should not be an option for such a petty offense as not showing up to a hearing about library books. There was a time where incarceration was not an option for crimes of this "magnitude". We survived. Libraries survived.

So what are the options? The library could have shown mercy and waived the fine. They're not a corporation, their bottom line is not profit. Many libraries give the fine waiving option once a year for donating canned goods, etc. At any rate, the fines apparently went to collections (again we're arguing details we have no idea about, but I'll play).

Anyone sued for medical bills, credit card, anything at all can tell you you're not necessarily expected to show in court by the litigating corporations. If you don't show, the judge will automatically award the collection agency with their requested damages, which often includes alternative payment methods. You can show and argue, it but it's futile. You owe them what they say you owe them because they're the final word on that matter. So you end up with a days work lost and the same result most times. And a lawyer bill if you really actually thought you had a chance and hired a lawyer lol.

Alternative payment methods:

Community service if the debt is to society, which arguably in this case it was, at least originally.
wage garnishment
Bank account garnishment
tax lien
Bankruptcy (congress requires this be offered to defendant in federal cases)

Just to name a few.

Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I'll explain. Regardless of the crime, even if no crime was commited, we put people in jail if they blow off court. This is the way it has to be, otherwise everybody would blow off court. We must have this law and the penalties must be severe.

It used to be a whole lot worse. Under the English Common Law as described in Pollock and Maitland's 2 volume Hidtory of the Ennglish Common Law, the penalty for blowing off court, since it was the Kings Court, was death. Miss the assize and you were declared "out of the law", the root of the term outlaw, and were fair game for anyone to kill since by rejecting the King's law, you were rejecting his protection. Take that, you library desperado.

I don't see what the deal is.

She had 200 dollars in books.

They were "burned"

They wanted the money.

She refused.

They made her go to court.

No show.

Now she's in jail.

Whats the difference from me robbing 200 dollars from the local store, getting caught, and then not going to court? I'd be in jail too.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
A. You do not know that the woman forgot to return the books.
B. If they were not 'late' at the time of the fire it would actually be the FIRE DEPARTMENTS failure to not respond to the blaze in sufficient time with sufficient resources to save the book, so that part of the system failed.
C. You do not know if the woman ignored repeated requests from the library, or if she simply responded honestly that the books were lost in a fire and she did not have the money to pay for them and the fines (this is why she likely borrowed books instead of purchasing books, as most people who are really interested in a book, and have means to do so, purchase it and not borrow it).

Since you are repeating yourself, I'll follow the suite -- you don't know any of this either. Why then do you claim that various nefarious clans and dark forces of the Universe were the cause that put this woman into jail, as opposed to her being plain irresponsible?

You have the nerve to blame the fire department who actually risked their lives responding to the fire, yet you don't doubt that the lady was NOT a lazy and contemptuous individual who deserves a few days in the locker. Guesswork much?

I think I get the picture. You chose this lady to channel your own character, which is "it's everybody's fault but not my own". You blame the New World Order, your Fire Dept, your Police Dept, your neighbors, the librarians who are no doubt members of some underground plot to subvert your life, and the rich who wage class warfare against the poor -- every time anything goes wrong, like you go the bathroom and accidentally miss the toilet.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Boy the site sure could use a minimum age requirement.

I think a perusal accross the board will clearly display overly aggressive code enforcement to offset declining real estate taxes brought on in no small part by mismanagement of the Government's own underwriting practices through Fannea Mae and Freddie Mac. As well as poor oversignt of the banks who were actually allowed to loot the treasury now on three occassions to further increase the nations debt and to keep the real estate market from actually correcting itself by keeping home prices artificially high, even during a record glut of homes.

While some people's amazingly limited and very narrow world view that prohibits them from focusing in on but the very narrowest aspects of a problem lack the intellect, general awareness, and acumen to see a larger far more dysfunctional picture that is in desperate need of addressing and correction, I suffer from no such limitations.

I have been in fact waging a constant tit for tat struggle against the corrupt corporate government and the powers that be since before I was even old enough to shave, and have accumulated a lot more tits than they have tats.

It does concern me that so many people have such poor annalytical and logistical capabilities due to a deliberately poor and deceptive education system, but aspiring to the lowest possible common denominator is not my aim.

Make no mistakes about it, this phenomenon of people casting thumbs down and wanting to see others suffer is simply part of an obscene blood sport programmed into them by TV, the Media, the Talking Heads and Politicians seeking to maintain a system that serves few well, by giving the masses their pounds of flesh to validate their own fool hardy and limited world view by seeing others suffer on their own social economic level that don't manage to propogate it and espouse it as well.

To that regard, I actually consider you to be the victim. As I do all people who struggle in obscenely rigid ways to make the falacy of this system 'appear' to be working for the betterment of everyone, where anyone who reviews the trends in wages, freedoms, laws and opportunities can clearly see a continual marked decrease across the board in all these regards decade after decade.

Slaying poor disatvantaged women who suffer tragedy seems about some people's speed.

Proto is out for much bigger game, not the chum the game fish feed on.

My but it's a dog eat dog world. Every dog has it's day though, enjoy the little harmless poodle your chewing on.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Boy the site sure could use a minimum age requirement.

I'm afraid that would prevent you from participating, though.