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Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by SirKnightE
You are asking for reliable sources for why Obamacare is bad for America?
What do you consider a "reliable" source?
How about YOU consider the "source" that produced Obamacare, and shoved it down our throat. Tell ME why I should trust THAT source, or why YOU should.
This is what gets me. You ask ATS members to prove to you why Obamacare is bad, but yet, you pretend that it has some real potential for good. I ask you, why? Where do you get the idea it has potential for good? Because it "appears" to answer the prayers of your GF and parents?
Maybe you should ask THEM why they believe it answers their prayers, and we could debunk that?
If you believe O Care is good...why? Can you be more specific than I am being?
Originally posted by Oaktree
reply to post by SirKnightE
None of this answers my questions, My ignorance on this matter is real, so I seek real answers, none of the sacasm helps AT ALL, so If you're just tryna to make some lame a$$ response to stir up some debate, please dont respond, your stupidity is not needed. This issue is real with plenty of people that do not have insurance, Like my parents and GF. Again all I hear is the same crap I hear off of FOX news, I'm not here for bullsh!t debate, so if there is someone with an ouce of intelligence to answer my simple question please feel free to clarify the benifits or concequences to ObamaCare with reliable sources please.
Whoa! Calm down there, SirKnightE.
No need for the attacks.
I went back and re-read your entire post, and there is no "simple question" in your post.
There is only this:
I would like someone to clarify to me exactly what the prolem is with "ObamCare".
and this
Like I said before, I dont follow politics too much, so if someone could please explain to me the evil behind ObamaCare.
This is a reply of mine from back in March, pretty much sums up my thoughts.
I have said for almost two decades that the healthcare system in the U.S. is wrecked, and I still believe that it needs to be fixed.
I fail to see how this bill changes much.
Look at who Obama, and our other Reps, invited to these closed door meetings to develop this bill.
Insurance companies, pharmaceauticals, unions, etc.
Did anyone ask The People what they wanted?
No, the very criminals responsible for our messed up health care system were the ones invited to write this new legislation.
This bill does not provide free health care for the poor or temporarily down and out.
We will all still be paying for health care.
While I don't believe this bill will actually reduce costs, let's pretend it does.
I have insurance through my wife's employer. We pay roughly $550/mnth.
Even if this bill reduces costs for those struggling by 40%, which is doubtful, how does that really help.
For people that have no health care, and are struggling to pay mortgage (if they still have one), pay bills,
and God forbid, put some decent food on the table,
does it really matter that the policy still costs $300/mnth vs. $550?
If you're broke, you're broke. $550, $300, $1000, the money isn't there, might as well be a million.
From this thread, Link to thread
which, in my opinion, was one of the better threads on Obamacare.
Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
As a Texan, I say GOOD. To the gentleman asking what people see wrong with this bill:
My son just turned two years old. Instead of having the ability to choose whether he needs health care at the time or not, he will now be FORCED to have health care. Not only will he be FORCED to have health care, but if he doesn't get it he could possibly face fines and jail time. The problem isnt that everybody DESERVES health care. Nobody deserves anything but the freedom of personal choice.
And in all honesty, I dont have health care either, but I'm a 24 year old college student. It's ok though, our jackass president extended health care benefits for dependents of civilians only. Too bad my mother fought two tours in Iraq. Us military dependents shouldn't have anything to worry about though, I mean, the military leaves us all so wealthy anyways right?
Originally posted by proximo
reply to post by SirKnightE
Here's the problem with Obamacare in a nutshell - the goal of any healthcare reform should be to cut costs, Obamacare makes costs higher, for that reason alone it is an abysmal failure.
Do you know that 17.3% of GDP is spent on healthcare in the US when it is only around 8% in England, and 10% or lower in nearly all of Europe. With that kind of room for savings somehow Obamacare is going to cost us more even according to the government accounting office. That is just pathetic.
Costs are up nearly 100% in the last 10 years. That far, far outstrips the growth in income which is near nothing in the same period of time. This pace of cost increase cannot continue - or literally only the super wealthy will have access to health care.
The greatest expense the US government has by far for the future, is medicare and medicaid - this bill was supposed to fix that problem - it does not, it makes it worse. Our government is so broke, our economy may literally collapse any day, and with near 100% certainty will collapse within 5 years.
The only way everyone can really get access to healthcare is if we bring down it's costs, nobody will have access to healthcare when the economy is destroyed, so saying access is what makes obamacare a success is a faulty argument.
Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Holy wow. Another attempt of yet another state to attempt to override or undo a Federal mandate for which the 10th in cases like this is null and void as this was a mandate from The people.
The true colours of the GOP is really showing. To be vile and filthy enough to want a sickened child to die. Darn. That is one of the principle tennets of the bill was to deny a carrier from denying coverage to any erson regardless of race, ethnicity, gender and socioeconomical status of any live saving measures.
Obamacare is offensive. Whoever coined that term is a moron. Remember 43's healthcare package, or even 40 or 41's? No right? Because there was not any. This was needed to be done 20 years ago and not now.
Anything that tries to help out the poor, sick, disabled, non white gets shot down and defeated all while protecting tax cuts for the rich. You now know right that any takedown southward of the econonmy now sits solely on the GOP. congrats. You're being set up for a calamity that you caused.
(Going after the party and not any particular person)
Originally posted by 46ACE
Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Holy wow. Another attempt of yet another state to attempt to override or undo a Federal mandate for which the 10th in cases like this is null and void as this was a mandate from The people.
The true colours of the GOP is really showing. To be vile and filthy enough to want a sickened child to die. Darn. That is one of the principle tennets of the bill was to deny a carrier from denying coverage to any erson regardless of race, ethnicity, gender and socioeconomical status of any live saving measures.
Obamacare is offensive. Whoever coined that term is a moron. Remember 43's healthcare package, or even 40 or 41's? No right? Because there was not any. This was needed to be done 20 years ago and not now.
Anything that tries to help out the poor, sick, disabled, non white gets shot down and defeated all while protecting tax cuts for the rich. You now know right that any takedown southward of the econonmy now sits solely on the GOP. congrats. You're being set up for a calamity that you caused.
(Going after the party and not any particular person)
OMG Acrid sour libs:
"this was a mandate from The people.
"Firstof all This was forced on the people "uhm...uhmmm we have to pass the bill to tell you what's in it?")
If there's awall we'll pole vault over it, a fence; we'll dig under it. Hardly sounds like something "the people" wanted!
One guys refuses any explanation that doesn't comefrom the daily kos; white house.gov or the huffington post(the "you guys make me sick"??? guy).
This one is going the "you like to watch sick kids shrivel and die route "
Does that make sense to anybody?
Inorder to justify this the govt has created a huge ( HUGE) bureaucracy involved in every decision between you and your doctor. they are adding something like160,000 new IRS agents to handle all the paper work for the hidden taxes in this bill.
It's not about Healthcare!.
We'll see the "if we are paying for your healthcare we have a say in what you eat(we see it already in school lunch programs)
Libbys answer me this: If they want to provide "free " healthcare. Why totally trash the exiting system? Why not build local free hospitals open to all Americans? ( even open all VA hospitals to all Americans?
Withoutall the bureacracy????.
Because they wouldn't get the $600.00 cash tracking requirement for the IRS. They want to rein in the "underground economy". Any business that pays $600or ,more for a service must supply the govt with a 1099 tracking that expenditure.They certainly don't want small business and freelancers to survive.edit on 7-12-2010 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)edit on 7-12-2010 by 46ACE because: (no reason given):edit on 7-12-2010 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SirKnightE
I get your arguement, and I appreciate your response, although like I said unless I looked up the numbers myself I can go by what is presented. But my argument is based on the quality care that was given to my son and his mother in Germany. I know for a fact that this care is going to cost someone, somewhere. And like I stated previously, If I am required to sacrafice a $1,00 buck of my money to help millions get adequate health care, I honestly dont mind.... This is strictly my thinking.... Help the less fortunate... I have everything I want and need, and all the extra stuff is just junk that can be given to some one else who does not have a fraction of what I consider junk.
Am I really that wrong for being considerate that there are millions that need to live, and its gonna require a community of people to ensure their survival. I know many on ATS have no belief in any god, but even with out a god, it is a common think to look out for a neighbor or friend. So besides all the numbers and how much its gonna cost, I sure, no matter what the cost, it will benefit someone.
Originally posted by Pervius
I read the "healthcare" bill Congress passed and Texas isn't happy about now.
By July 2010 all States were supposed to have websites up showing us sheeple our available options we must pick from....for the new mandatory Federal Tax.
No State yet has created the mandatory website. The November elections likely is why it was put on the back burner.
Those elections are over, States can be FINED now for failing to have ObamaCare websites up.
States have ZERO standing to stand against the Federal Government. IF you remember correctly we LOST the Civil War that was fought over State Sovereignty.
Texas is NOT a sovereign State. It is a POSSESSION of the Federal Government. Their plan to stop ObamaCare will be futile. Chicago politics will punish Texas and liberate them of some of their money via FINES, or withholding massive Federal Funding.
Texas is NOBODY in the world anymore. Back in the day they had power to remain sovereign. Not anymore.
Originally posted by spiritualzombie
Anyone who calls it "Obamacare" is using a right-wing propaganda term..... Which basically means... even though you THINK you have awakened... you are STILL asleep and are basically acting as Right-wing sheeple.
Originally posted by SirKnightE
reply to post by boondock-saint
Is this just the common acceptance of whats gonna happen by word of mouth. Where are the actual documents showing detailed concequences to it. I can listen to the media all day and hear opposing views, but until I read the benifits or concequences of the bill myself I can accept what you say nor what defenders of the bill state. According to what I read from the link provided, I see none of that. That all sounds like the stuff I hear on FOX news everyday at work.
Alot of these reasons some of you propose seems to just be regurgited "new" from those who appose the bill. Of coarse nothing is free, but my main thing is I really dont have a problem dishing out $1,00 bucks to help millions of others that do not have health care and need it.
Originally posted by SirKnightE
But as I stated not everyone has a giving mentality like myself, and I am absolutly fine with that.